Our view: Pay attention to anti-racism campaign, even if it’s uncomfortable
January 23, 2012 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
A campaign that launches today will be bold, aggressive, in-your-face and a major turnoff to much of Duluth.
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Hard to have a real discussion when you start with the premise that all the problems only exist on one side. You’ve spent all this time, all this money and come up with seven months of “bold, aggressive, in-your-face” propaganda to beat one race up with and then you demand that they go along with it? This isn’t an anti-racism campaign. It’s an anti-white campaign. And it sounds incredibly biased, one-sided and racist to me.
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Racism is alive and well in Duluth. I get called “cracker” and told “whachu lookin’ at whitey?” on a regular basis in downtown. When my kids apply to colleges, they are automatically docked a few points because they checked the caucasian box. When I try to win a bid on a government construction job, I am passed over for a company that bid almost double what I did, but their “owner” is a minority. I missed these facts in this anti-racism propaganda campaign. Anti-racism means EVERYONE is EQUAL, regardless of race. That is not what these people are promoting.
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And I’M sure the hypocritical organizations that are supporting this farce will dump all of their “more than equal treatment” programs favoring minorities such as Affirmative Action. Lets look too at Pell grants and at all those in our commumity whose sole purpose in their job is to give extra help and extra funding and extra schooling to minorities, ie: integration specialists, NAACP, ACHIO, other special program etc. If we want equal treatment then we have to look at both sides of the coin, not just blame one side while still favoring the other side. We will never be equal until all are treated equally regardless of skin color.
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Way I see it, we’re all human. Does it really matter what part of the of the world you came from?
Want to get rid of racism? Treat everyone equally, and stop treating minorities like they’re victims.
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White privilege? I think you are promoting white guilt. Too much of that already.
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We can now see who the real rascists are, what a silly effort !!
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Education, education, education…that’s what is important, not the color of ones skin. A child needs to have the value of an education instilled in them by the home environment. If education is not valued at home the child will grow up disadvantaged, not by the childs race, color or creed but by their upbringing. Drop-out rates are deplorable for certain groups because their home environment is not stressing the value, the absolute need, for a good education. Then there is peer pressure too that may distract from studies. We must work to make the home environment more conducive to education so a child does not grow up disadvantaged, regardless of skin color. A persons skin color doesn’t matter one iota, only what is in that persons head and in their heart. Everyone needs ther right start and the right environment to develope that head and heart.
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And yet people who grew up in what might be considered “poor” homes grow up to be successful regardless of their race. They must be the exception, huh?
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As a black man I can tell you that ulysses is pretty much dead on. I grew up inner city where fastone’s stats would say how uneducated we are. The problem lies at home more than the schools themselves. It’s not that the teachers don’t want to teach it’s that many of the students just don’t care to learn. The streets are an easy magnet for the youth of my people. Many mom’s I knew were so hooked on drugs they didn’t know what day it was. It spans generation after generation. If my people don’t want to be judged by color then we need to change our ways. I shouldn’t be the exception, I should be the norm.
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Congrats on your successes. The minority community can improve if more successes like your are brought to light and used as role models of what can be, rather than the hoplessness that can pervade such neighborhoods and such communities. Again congrats and wishes for your continued success.
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I think we need to realize that both sides are right. People still have a ways to go in accepting those that are different from themselves AND the people that are down need to rise up from within their own communities as well.
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Read the post above yours. All this campaign does is point fingers, something you’re quite adept at. It’s got Claudie Washington, Mary Cameron, Henry Banks and Donny Ness written all over it. And of course the News Tribune playing Community Mommy and telling everyone how they must behave.
The problems start at home, not with the Evil White Man. 70% of blacks are born to single mothers. That’s unacceptable. The poverty rate in black homes is double the national average and triple that of white homes. That’s unacceptable. The dropout rate for “students of color” is around 50%. That’s unacceptable. The average black student who does graduate from high school reads and does math at an eighth grade level. They’re nowhere near prepared for higher education or entry-level work. What were the numbers in Duluth a while back? Two black students took college entrance exams last year? And what was it, ten Indian students took the exams? In the entire district? That’s a problem. All the “diversity counselors” and “integration specialists” that you liberals want to throw money at clearly aren’t effective. But then you’re not really interested in solutions anyway.
And Shanko, you are the norm. That doesn’t work for people like Fastone and the usual liberal boneheads in Duluth, but they’d rather you didn’t succeed. They can’t convince “people of color” to keep electing them if they don’t keep them believing that they’ll never amount to anything because the Evil White Man won’t allow it. They need “people of color” to believe that liberal government handouts are their only means of survival. It’s one of the most cruel things I can think of to take away a person’s self-worth and their ambition and their will to succeed, but that’s the liberal way.
The solutions aren’t rocket science. Graduate from high school. Go to college or start working. Don’t have children you can’t afford or don’t want to raise in a family setting. Obey the laws. How hard was that? Regardless of race, the problems and the solutions can both be found in the same place: the mirror.
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Headline could read: “White Duluth to get diversity training.”
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This bothers me. I agree with DanH 100%. This campaign starts off with the assumption that all whites are racist. What I fear more is being accused of being racist. This is an area where once accused you are guilty with no hope of being proven innocent. The instant come back saying “I’m not racist, I have friends that are (insert minority group of your choice here) is instantly ridiculed and dismissed. Perhaps this campaign will show that there are two sides to this discussion: 1 side being that there are still some people out there that are truly racist and discriminatory toward minorities, and the 2nd side being those of us who truly aren’t racist or discriminatory and are worried that we may suddenly be accused of such.
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I will choose to ignore the bold, in-your-face propaganda.
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See, here’s the problem. . . I’m not white, I’m not a “person of color”, I belong to one race. Human. And the same applies to you. We’re all the same race. The only difference is culture, and culture isn’t a race.
You treat me like a human being, and you’ll get the same in return.
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See, here’s the problem….While we are one race, we’re not all one color, and unless you’re blind you notice that when you meet me. And subconsciously, many white people (maybe you’re the sole exception) make assumptions about me. I’m a college educated person earning a very comfortable living but I frequently get asked for 2 i.d.’s when I swipe my debit card at the store, when the person in front of me who looks white isn’t asked for any i.d.’s. I’ve been asked if I want to use my EBT card, because clerks assume I’m on welfare due to my skin color. When a college student with bald tires driving 80 mph on an icy freeway side-swiped me and witnesses confirmed it was the kid’s fault, I’m the one who was asked if I’d been drinking by the trooper. The kid didn’t get that question. So you just go ahead and tell me that if I treat you the same, you’ll treat me the same. The problem is I’m not treated the same. You say that if I treat you like a human being, I’ll get the same in return. The problem is that some of us don’t get treated like a human being in the same way that you do. The only difference is NOT culture. There is no such thing as being color-blind. Maybe you’re the most enlightened person in northern Minnesota and don’t make assumptions about me when you meet me and treat me differently based on those assumptions. Thank you for that. But the majority of your neighbors do, whether consciously or subconsciously. I’ve learned to live with that because this is where my profession brought me, for the time being. But saying we’re all the same doesn’t mean we’re treated all the same.
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“And subconsciously, many white people (maybe you’re the sole exception) make assumptions about me.”
I wasn’t aware that being able to read peoples subconscious thoughts was an ability imparted upon “people of color”. Is that really what they’re thinking, or is it what you think they’re thinking? Or even better. . . Do you think they know that you’re thinking that you know that they’re thinking that you know what they think?
“I been asked if I want to use my EBT card, because clerks assume I’m on welfare due to my skin color.”
Again, somehow you just know what people assume? I’ve been behind plenty of “people of color” while waiting in line to to pay, and I have never heard a clerk ask anyone with they want to use EBT. I guess our collective anecdotal experiences cancel each other out then?
“When a college student with bald tires driving 80 mph on an icy freeway side-swiped me and witnesses confirmed it was the kid’s fault, I’m the one who was asked if I’d been drinking by the trooper. The kid didn’t get that question.”
Hyperbole does not an argument make. I know this is hyperbole because a: humans don’t have built in radar detectors. and b: well, physics. the amount of damage that a 1 ton car travelling at 80 mph would be so extensive that neither you, nor the other driver would have been conscious enough to answer any questions in a proximity where you could have potentially overheard everything the investigating officer asked the other driver.
“Maybe you’re the most enlightened person in northern Minnesota and don’t make assumptions about me when you meet me and treat me differently based on those assumptions. Thank you for that. But the majority of your neighbors do, whether consciously or subconsciously.”
Only one I see making assumptions, is you.
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Tas side swiped on a highway would imply the two cars are traveling in the same direction at similar speeds. Like the rest of the points in your post; wrong. This man goes to the store as a black man every day so I think his exposure potential to the EBT question would be thousand fold over your time behind someone of color in a line. If you really don’t think the experience of a black person in this country is different than yours you are not too bright.
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I liked your response, and it made me reflect on the examples you gave where you felt you were treated or questioned differently based on your skin color. I also started to wonder if the examples you gave were acts of racism? What’s the difference between stereotypes and racism? So – I looked it up and here’s what I found on wikipedia:
Racism: belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination
Stereotype: a popular belief about specific types of individuals
Maybe I’m splitting hairs here, but the key that I noticed here is that racism is JUSTIFIED discrimination. I don’t feel the term racism applies in your examples, however I do agree that you may have been treated differently because of a stereotype based on your physical appearance. Please don’t take this as trying to trivialize your experiences, rather as trying to explain my thoughts and feelings as well.
The problem I have with this public campaign is that I feel that it puts white people in a box. If you don’t support it, or if you dis-agree with it in any way, you must be racist, or at the very least out of touch. I don’t like feeling guilty when I read the posters. It makes me feel that the only reason I got to where I am in life is because I am white. While that is ultimately the goal of those posters, I don’t feel it’s the best way of getting the message across. I think this campaign is causing many white people to become instantly defensive. I think if this were a campaign about stereotypes and getting people to understand their stereotypes and using real life examples like you listed, people would not get so defensive.
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This is one of the few responses I agree with on this page. This unfair campaign is in my opinion a bomb because it makes white people defensive and angry. But I think something is needed to wake people up. Maybe not this. But something. I’m a white student from Chicago who came here to go to college and because my Dad was in the military I’ve lived all over the U.S. Honestly I’ve never lived in any city that has this big of a problem with race. My current roommate from a town I’m not going to name in Minnesota had a black roommate as a freshman and he told me when he first met him and found out he was black he was scared to death of living with him. His dad even called the college and complained and tried to get him a new roommate because he didn’t want his kid living with THAT kind of person. My roommate had not even ever met a black guy before in his whole life. The housing people didn’t move him or his roommate and when we talked about this he admitted how ashamed he was for feeling the way he did because they became super good friends and now the 3 of us all live together in an apartment with another dude. People from around this region have this “holier than thou” attitude and act like people from the south are all ignorant and talk about “Minnesota Nice” but there’s way more racism and ignorance here than I ever saw in Alabama, Georgia or South Carolina. It’s POLITE racism but it’s worse than any place I’ve ever lived before. So yeah this campaign sucks but crawl out of your “we’re good people” hole and realize that your children are growing up sheltered with stereotypes that will only cause them to be smacked in the face with reality if they ever leave northern Minnesota. The rest of the world has moved on but this community seems stuck in the 1950s.
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I just left a response but I just thought up a question for all you grownups out there. This requires some true honesty on your part. Imagine your son or daughter goes to college and you find out their freshman roommate is black kid from Chicago. What’s your gut reaction? Happy visions of them becoming best friends and in each others weddings, best buds for the rest of their lives? Or concern that this roommate might be a negative influence, into drugs or a gang runner, and God forbid they become friends and your kid is invited home with them on Chicago during spring break. If you have ANY concerns about this kid just because of where they are from and their race, you are behaving in a racist way. Politely. But it’s still racist thinking based on stereotypes. GUILTY! And again I’m white. Not that it should matter. But it obviously does.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Apparently I need to be educated since I am European-American. I agree with DanH – “It’s an anti-white campaign. And it sounds incredibly biased, one-sided and racist to me”
Get yourself educated and work to being a productive member of society instead of playing the “help, help, I’m being repressed” card. The energy you spend feeling sorry for yourself and thinking you should get everything (for doing nothing) is not helping. Want to change the perception that you don’t work, are lazy, etc? Pull your pants up, learn a skill, show up for work and earn a paycheck!
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Brandon, with regard to your scenario of my son/daughter rooming with a black kid from Chicago…how would I feel. My immediate reaction would be I want to meet this kid as soon as possible. You can tell a whole bunch about anybody in just a few minutes. Is he respectful, friendly, does he speak well and proper (yes that’s a form of respect too when in the presense of others) and last but not least, I don’t want to see his pants half way down to where they shouldn’t be. All that can be done in a minute or two…..and if he’s a decent guy, It’s all good. If not, it matters not his race, but I’d see trouble. Could I be sandbagged…..sure, people can surprise you, but at least he’s off to a good start.
So, the fact that he’s black isn’t the issue…..being a respectful, well adjusted, reasonably articulate and friendly individual is. Would you want any less for your son or daughter while paying big bucks for the college experience ?
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Jessica, it is very sad to say, but people like Brandon, no matter what skin color, have a predisposition to dress like they lost 100 lbs. and cannot purchase new clothes, or are wearing hand me downs, we all know they have not worn one item that could be called a hand me down! I do not believe the kids that sag realize that the fine art of sagging started because belts are not allowed in the correctional facilities on patrons due to the high rate of suicide. They love the startled look on your face when you see that they fell into a tackle box, or think one of their parents had sex with a parrot. What I don’t understand, is why they can’t talk coherently. I think it might be an attempt to make us believe that school is tough especially the English language.
Jus axe em.
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Do we really need billboards to tell us “white” people that we are below everyone else? If there is going to be a racial billboard anywhere maybe set one up around 17th and tower in Superior where the new ghetto has set up. It’s pretty bad when a store has to close at night because the neighborhood is getting too dangerous with robberies and shootings and the other violence that goes on over there that wasn’t in that area before Duluth and Superior opened up the flood gates for all the section 8 housing and open welfare programs for everyone coming up from Detriot, the cities, Chicago and the rest of the low end communities. And if you don’t believe me go to a gas station and ask the clerks where all the places they are seeing when they check peoples i.d’s. Also go ask the kids in the schools how violent and disruptive they are getting I get to hear about it most days when my son gets home from there.
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Its a good thing that Mayor Ness has solved all the other pressing problems that Duluth faces, like high unemployment, crumbling infrastructure, and excessive tax rates. Oh wait……
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Really…. Really!!!! Now I am a racist. I have worked with alot of different people over the years and have NEVER considered color.
Now I am that white guy!!!!!! As long as some people keep bringing color into this we will always have racism.
Quit bringing color into this. If you have a problem with your race (any) work with them to correct the problem and do not blame others, for I do not see color.
This is the worst idea I have ever seen….REALLY.
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Of course you “see color”, but the question is how do you respond to it. We all make judgements, but do you judge someone soley on their skin color, clothing, tats, piercings, etc… or do you listen to what they have to say, how they act, and what they do? This campaign makes a vast assumption that white people don’t see how lucky we have it and that we are racist because we don’t see it. That is why this campaign will actually cause more harm than good. It promotes guilt and defensiveness instead of insight and understanding.
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Can someone please explain to me how putting up a billboard that is generalizing that all white people are ignorant/naive towards racism is going to help stop racism? I understand what the organization is about, but making broad generalizations like this is not going to solve anything. It’s going to create a bigger rift because those of us that don’t see color, or stereotype based on someone’s “race” feel like we’re being attacked. I hope that the local businesses that donated/support this campaign knew what they were signing up for because I see this turning into a really big mess.
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Here’s a little hint, and I won’t even charge for this: People’s opinions on race aren’t formed by one particular instance. They’re formed by hundreds, thousands of observations, interactions, and experiences.
How about conducting yourselves in a manner that defies stereotypical behavior for whatever check-box gets used on your census report? Do things like:
-Stress education to your children, not being an entertainer/athlete
-Marry the person whom you make a child with, preferably before making said child.
-Look at the health history of your culture & vow to not fall into the same trap.
-When in public, act in a decent & civilized manner.
-Don’t be too proud/stubborn to ask for help to better yourself/your family.
But then I remember the times we live in and realize these are pretty silly & antiquated notions.
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Your suggestions are practical and sensible. They’ll never work in Duluth.
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You said it well Duluth Spock. Racism usually comes from stereotypes….and stereotypes come from observed behavior. If we see a disproportionate percentage of any group (race, size, clothing type, location, type of car they drive, we’re likely to have that opinion of that type of person until they pleasantly show us otherwise. It may be wrong of us to do that…..but it sure does explain a lot of things.
There are a lot of ill-behaved, lazy, loud, obnoxious white people around town….but if you know 1000 white people and 20 of them are ill-behaved, you’re not likely to form a stereotype of whites being ill-behaved or something to be feared. But if you know 20 people of another race and 10 of them sashay down the street screaming at each other across the street with pants showing way to much and they have no visible legal means of support…..you’re likely on your way to a stereotype until proven otherwise by the good behavior of those who break the mold of your stereotype and you realize they are truly a breath of fresh air to you.
I’m not so sure it’s all about race….I think it’s more about behavior and hard work. If you go up to UMD and look at the graduates of the computer sciences….that East Indians and Asians are eating our lunch. More power to them, they have decided to compete, worked and studied hard and undoubtedly most will be very successful. I doubt they fret much about white privilege since they seem very occupied on their mission to excell in the local culture.
I’d be lying if I didn’t admit there are true racists amoung us who dislike others simply because of their race and race alone. However, I think the overwhelming majority of Americans are willing to accept most anybody of any race if they show they are contributing members of society rather than those who are ill-behaved and the reason for the stereotype in the first place.
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I appreciate your comments and your reasoned approach versus others who have posted ignorant crap. I only want to address 1 issue, and please know I do so with respect, and not acrimony. You wrote, “I’m not so sure it’s all about race….I think it’s more about behavior and hard work. If you go up to UMD and look at the graduates of the computer sciences….that East Indians and Asians are eating our lunch”
Respectfully, East Indians and Asians are not an objective comparison, as the vast majority of these students benefit from their own class-related privilege of being amongst the highest income earners in their home countries, and those who are American citizens are typically second generation immigrants, whose parents were amongst the most educated in their home countries prior to immigrating. It takes $$ to immigrate.
With regard to your comment about it taking “hard work”: The America I learned about in the 1960′s was a country where a person could overcome all odds if they worked hard enough. I learned later in life that the definition of that “person” did not necessarily include those of us with darker skin. The G.I. bill sent WWII veterans (and Korean, Vietnam, Gulf War, etc) through college. My colleagues discuss how their grandfathers worked hard, went to college, bought homes or businesses because of the G.I. bill. This is the great social experiment that moved pooe people out of poverty and into education, business, and created the suburbs. They had a chance. They had opportunity. They had the biggest social welfare program in the history of the United States behind them. But Jim Crow laws discriminating against black folks stopped black veterans from having these same opportunities.
“”Katznelson demonstrates thatAfrican-American veterans received significantly less help from the G.I. Bill than their white counterparts. ”Written under Southern auspices,” he reports, ”the law was deliberately designed to accommodate Jim Crow.” He cites one 1940′s study that concluded it was ”as though the G.I. Bill had been earmarked ‘For White Veterans Only.’ ” Southern Congressional leaders made certain that the programs were directed not by Washington but by local white officials, businessmen, bankers and college administrators who would honor past practices. As a result, thousands of black veterans in the South — and the North as well — were denied housing and business loans, as well as admission to whites-only colleges and universities. They were also excluded from job-training programs for careers in promising new fields like radio and electrical work, commercial photography and mechanics. Instead, most African-Americans were channeled toward traditional, low-paying ”black jobs” and small black colleges, which were pitifully underfinanced and ill equipped to meet the needs of a surging enrollment of returning soldiers.”"
My point is that your version of “hard work” is not the same as another person’s version of “hard work”. Some people have bigger challenges in front of them. I’m not saying that is an excuse for not trying. I’m saying that if you grew up with parents or grandparents who benefitted from any federal social welfare programs, you had a head start and advantage over people whose parents and grandparents were denied those same benfits.
Bless you, but we are not all the same.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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And yet black Americans have taken advantage of new opportunities afforded in the past 50 years and created the largest and most influential black middle class in history. Go figure.
Hard work is hard work regardless of race, but the opportunities don’t mean much to people who refuse to take advantage of them.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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To continue our conversation lance, I have a question for you. You mentioned that comparing the situation of Asians and East Indians to Blacks is not a valid comparison since the these three races are coming from different backgrounds and situations…..I can accept that, but if that’s true, I have an other observation. Why is this new local campaign based on white privilege when by your own observations you’re saying it’s not so much about race…..but about background, education, involvement and income level of your parents ? Sounds to me like the base problem isn’t race based at all, but rather based on a number of factors that have virtually nothing to do with race.
Given that anyone of us can most likely point to a number of successful people of all races around town, it seems a bit simplistic and just plain bad logic to promote a campaign that bases the entire problem on your race…
Maybe it would be more accurate and widely supported to start a campaign to promote the that helps build the values which you accurately mentioned give your offspring those advantages.
When our kids were young we both my husband and I attended all their school parent/teacher conferences together so we would be engaged in their education and help get them off to a good start. I know many times we heard teachers comment on how nice it was to have both of us there….and how unfortunate it was that the very kids that were “troubled” were the least likely to have any parent involvement in school activities/functions. That has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the parents values….which if lacking in this respect obviously cause problems.
It’s cause and effect at it’s core. All actions (or lack thereof) have reactions…..and I think this (as you yourself pointed out) have MUCH more do with with many of the problems which are way over simplifed as being all about race and race only as this campaign does to a large degree.
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Jessica, do you actually believe there is such a thing as race?
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Lance certainly you can’t compare where we are now as black people to where we were in the 50′s and 60′s. I got my education through the Army and GI bill. Our problems lies within much of our own doing. DanH responded to my comments above with stats. These are our biggest problems that face our people. The only people that hold us back is ouselves. The opportunities are there more so for minorties now then ever before. Again when blacks like you and me become the norm racism will diminish. It will never go away but it is a two way street, I know many blacks that are just as racist.
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I consider myself an American mutt, meaning, I do not have one or two nationalities, but a few more. I was raised understanding that all people were created equal, yet I also saw that not all people were treated equal. My father, God rest his soul, instilled a few things in me to live by so I wouldn‘t “QUACK-UP“.
1. Treat “all” people like you want to be treated.
2. Be respectful to your elders (not so many of them around anymore).
3. Look and act respectable.
If a person, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and associates with ducks, they will be mistaken for a duck. Let me think….who would be at fault in that scenario?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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When I first heard about this from a friend, I thought “nahh, she’s kidding.” Then I saw the first billboard, and the second, and I must say that I was a little riled up! What DOESN’T make this reverse racism? What’s OKAY about saying that all white people have issues with race, and are somehow bad? I realize that this campaign is to raise awareness…….but I think we’ve ALL been aware of a number of issues that were mentioned previously on this board (and which I don’t have to repeat) about the crime and statistics and parenting and such. Are people of color WORSE at this than I am? Maybe. Maybe not. It’s an INDIVIDUAL thing…………..lots of white folks are pretty horrible parents, and commit crimes, and do drugs…………and are racists. But lots of them aren’t! The same for blacks and Indians and Asians and Iranians…..well, the list could go on forever. We need to look at individuals, at EACH OTHER, and be responsible for our own actions!
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So most people here don’t realize that geneticists have proven we all come from Africa and have the same genes so there cannot be races.
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Maybe this is because I haven’t really lived in Duluth for a long time, but I feel like this topic is so 1982 – this thing flamed out more than ten years ago; for so long, white people over-compensated for this implied sense of guilt, and now, at least in other cities, racism and homophobia are much more complex (and certainly, this will be in Duluth’s future as well). It’s no longer a question of non-white and white; gay or straight. It’s immigrants from Asia who don’t get along with immigrants from Latin America. It’s black people of one religion who despise black people of another. It’s gay people who don’t have money/education who feel rejected, oppressed and demonized by affluent gays. These are all examples of intolerance that none of us ever dreamed. In Vancouver there is a huge problem that goes three ways: Native peoples, African immigrants and Asian immigrants who often resent each other for different reasons, and nobody is willing to listen to each other. They’re pulling their kids out of schools for ‘cultural appreciation days’ that celebrate Latin Canadian culture, and Natives/Asians absolutely hate it. So what happens now that whites and straight people no longer control the show? You stay out of other people’s battles. One thing about living in harmony is learning – in some way – how to connect and relate with someone who doesn’t look like/live like you do. You’re not wrong, and neither are they, if you TRY to find out more about them. When you use the 1970′s/80′s implied white guilt, you only drive that resentment deeper, and angry white people who have the money and degrees will simply leave, creating a ghettoized city of minorities who all hate each other and who have no money to leave. I don’t want to see this happen to Duluth, but the many times I’m there, I see people who’ve been in Duluth who keep chugging along, and then i see people who appear they can no longer afford Twin Cities/Chicagoland rents anymore and came to Duluth to ‘give up’ because the waiting list for subsidized housing in larger markets is close to 10 years. That’s fine, but the thing is…usually the resident in these buildings is not the problem: the problem is when the friends, the families, the ex-boyfriends, the friends of the kids all start showing up with no intentions of ever doing anything productive. I have SEEN cities like Duluth where they are in obvious signs of decay but nobody’s willing to say anything about it. Maybe this is a racial issue and maybe it’s not. I see is more as a class issue, because people with money won’t waste their time in Duluth where there is nothing to do, nobody interesting to meet after six months, and being so far away from a major metro area. People, esp. young people, want to be in a place where THINGS HAPPEN – Duluth is no longer that place. There are no jobs. There are no romantic possibilities because everyone’s married or has four kids. Just as you can’t force creativity, you can’t force people to be uncomfortable about race when in 2012 everyone has their sad stories that affect every race in some way. I would rather listen to all different kinds of people instead of hearing for the umpteenth time how one groups’ pain is worse than another.
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Although the issue of “white privilege” isn’t a new concept for me, the first time I heard it I was highly offended. I couldn’t accept the fact that by nature of the color of my skin, I should automatically be classified as a racist. It’s such an ugly word, especially if you don’t view yourself as a racist. So what did I do? I explored it further! I kept an open mind and an open heart. I read, I read and I read some more. I took time to gather statistics and FACTS, all the while, keeping an open mind. I paid attention – in the stores, on the roads, in the media. Did racism actually exist or was it something that people of color used as an excuse. What did I see? I saw the person of color in front of me at the store being asked for two forms of I.D. while making a purchase and although I was using my mother’s debit card, I wasn’t asked for any I.D. at all. I saw a medical professionals harass a person of color to get them to admit what “street drugs” they were using that caused their seizure while having never been asked the same question when bringing a white family member in for the same symptoms – they were simply asked “what medications are you on”. Does this alone add up to racism? No. However, how is it that this rage of white people can claim that racism doesn’t actually exist? Could it be that it’s because we DON’T EXPERIENCE IT? Could it be that the people of color aren’t just imagining it or being over sensitive? White people, ask yourself a few questions: When you get pulled over, what do you think of first? Was I speeding? Did I fail to use my turn signal? Do you ever have to think, am I being pulled over because I’m white? When you experience rude treatment in the grocery store do you wonder if the customer service person is having a bad day, just plain rude, or if they were rude just because you were white? There are privileges that we have as white people, please think about it. Nobody is saying you’re a racist or you’re lazy or you don’t deserve what you have. Consider that there may be systematic barriers that exist for some that aren’t the same for us! Keep an open mind and keep talking and listening!
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On these forums, some of the exact same posters on the incident at UMD regarding the white kid, the black student and Youth for Western Civilization (YWC) immediately jumped to defense of white kid, defended YWC, berated the black student and wailed there was no need for diversity teacher and that she was racist. All without a fact in hand, white was right, black was wrong and that’s WSP in action.
I posted the facts and shortly after the thread disappeared, which happens a lot but the facts were: The white kid was a hired gun activist by YWC to cause an incident. The diversity teacher was right, YWC was actually founded and funded by white supreamcist group and is on SPLC hate group watch list and the video of the black kid was edited for their agenda and the whole thing was a race bait and set up. The first knee jerk reaction by majority of white posters was to literally defend and protect a white supremacist groups agenda and trash a 19 year olds black for his behavior based on an edited video for effect and without knowing the facts and now are trying to dismiss that WSP really impacts whites decisions…it doesn’t really exist! Sorry folks…but most of you already shown how quick you are to jump on a white supremacist bandwagon…you’ve all shown how quick you are judge based on skin color without even knowing the truth…how quick you were to condemn the wrong party because they were black.
Repeatedly these forums are in fact drowning and seething with racism and WSP overtones. Everyone in this whole town knows what mean when refer to those “people from Chicago that moved here from Chicago” which is pushed repeatedly on these forums. Repeatedly these forums are full of posts putting all the problems holding this city down in blackface as well as putting all crime in this town as primarily caused by Blacks.
Now some of you are also trying to dismiss that WSP doesn’t exist …..sorry, the fact is nothing proves more loudly that not only does WSP exist but blind racism is still alive and well in this town then these forums.
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And nothing proves your ignorance more than your own words.
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fastone, with regard to your moving here from Chicago comment, check out this website.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/04/migration-moving-wealthy-interactive-counties-map.html
I found this web site a while back after hearing so many times that we were being overun with people moving here from Chicago, Milwaukee and Detroit. This link kind of backs up the Chicago and Milwaukee connection, but doesn’t show many moving here from Detroit. It does seem kind of odd if you click on St Louis County and see that Chicago and Milwaukee are one of the few places outside of Minnesota that people are moving here from.
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Jessica…I went to link and it also proves people from Chicago are moving everywhere and shows some have moved to St. Louis County but see below, am already well aware of that. It doesn’t however prove blacks are moving here in droves solely to milk the welfare system. That’s the illusion of that comment and everyone knows it’s the code words here for Blacks. BTW….I’m from Chicago…I know 10 people personally here from Chicago, none who came here for the welfare and everyone works. I’m white, 4 of those 10 people are black, 8 of 10 are professionals.
We all would contribute to supporting your map link but none of us support the racist welfare and crime comments. The black population here like general population has been very consistent for decades at about 1.6% of population here. Chief Ramsey has even spoken publically that the majority of crime here is NOT by Blacks that have relocated here. Yet, continually and repeatedly on these forums people promote and defend both the welfare and crime notions and paint both in blackface. That’s of course what attempting to do with link.
That IS WSP at work, it is promoting racist stereotypes that are not based in fact but on preconceived prejudice notions. Flip script~ Hardly a week goes by that don’t read about some white pedophile here. Would blacks be correct in proclaiming that majority of whites here are pedophiles? Afterall, using same stereotypical logic as whites here use against blacks that isn’t true they merely have to say~ look at how many are registered child molestors in this town, look at how many are white in Moose Lake facility look at how often is even just in the newspaper, look at how majority of those released from Moose Lake ends up in Duluth, it must be true!
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fastone, let me ask you a question and possibly help me understand the situation. I realize you can probably speak for yourself, but what prompted you to move here to the frozen north into a less than thriving area of the country/state ?
In looking at the map I linked to previously, it sure does show people moving from Chicago and Milwaukee all over the US, but none the less Duluth/St. Louis County seems to me to be an unlikely place to want to move to from Chicago unless one had family here and/or was offered a great job. If you click on any of the other major cities listed you’ll not see any lines of migration into Duluth/St. Louis County….I guess my question is what’s the draw here from those living in Chicago and/or Milwaukee ?
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Hey Jessica I can answer that question. I am a student at St. Scholastica. I moved here from Chicago to study in health sciences. I’m white.
And I have met many people from Chicago who are here who are also white. But what would the big deal be if I were black? More than half my high school in Chicago were black and were great people and good students and have gone onto good colleges. So what if someone moves here who is from Chicago? So I’m particularly sensitive to people who assume that anyone from Chicago or Milwaukee are gang members. Maybe you don’t think that but lots of people do and if it’s not racist, it’s really ignorant. The link you shared shows migration but doesn’t show race. Why the assumption that people from Chicago and Milwaukee are black? I gotta say, WHY would anyone be surprised that Chicagoans might want to live here? We already live on one of the Great Lakes, we already are accustomed to cold winters. From talking with my professors I know that Duluth is VERY attractive to people who don’t mind winter and want a lake because of more affordable housing, less crime because it’s a smaller city, decent schools, and access to outdoor recreation. Who WOULDN’T people from Chicago want to relocate from Chicago to Duluth is they had a chance? I know dozens of people at school who are from Chicago and I think only 1 is African American, the rest are all white. If you don’t believe me you can check because the head of our Theology and Religious Studies department is from Chicago, the new head of our HIstory department is from Chicago and many other faculty are from Chicago and all are WHITE. Chicago is a huge college city so we have thousands of faculty who like winter and water. St. Scholastica is the smallest college, so I can only imagine how many faculty from Chicago are at UMD and UWS which are 3 times our size. LOTS of people from Chicago and Milwaukee want to move to Duluth. Even my doctor is from Chicago and he is white too. But why the hell does it matter? I’ve read in the news that the city is losing population and wants people to move here. WHICH people? Only the white ones? I appreciate your research and question but just be careful about any assumptions that your link reflects race. I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that most of us from Chicago who have moved here are white. And again, why the hell should our race matter? I don’t like this campaign either but If Duluth folks are that closed-minded and stereotype people maybe this campaign WAS needed.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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To answer your question though Brandon did excellent job but was from students view, it’s a mixture of several things. The predominent being economic as that’s the justification for the move. A nice house in Lakeside/Congdon that goes for 220-250 here would be 450-500K in similar Chicago North Shore area. Property taxes of 2,500-3,000 here would be 10-12k where from. To own a couple of acres and privacy that many here are able to achieve, simply isn’t available or economically feasible at all in Chicago area. Where from in Chicago a vacant 1/3 acre lot would be over 100K while here you could buy 40 wooded acres for about 1,000 an acre and still have a reasonable commute. There aren’t 40 wooded acre opportunities even available in Chicago. A view of Lake Michigan like here of Superior, you’re talking million dollar plus homes only. Real Estate is such a premium there if have lake view that there isn’t a house in Duluth that has a view of Lake regardless of how nice is that in Chicago someone wouldn’t purchase just for property to do a tear down. I can sit on deck have a view of bay that would cost 5 million for starters if was in San Francisco where also lived and my best friend back in Chicago where from pays more a month in property taxes then I do for a year and unlike me he doesn’t even have a view of lake.
Then there’s the woods and wildlife here that isn’t available anywhere in Chicago. There’s also far less crime here, this towns crime is actually 50% LESS then national statistics and more natural beauty, more wildlife, views of Superior, about 10 million less people which alone is a reason that until lived like that probably can’t grasp here, more music venues within city then even in Chicago and to see a decent act in Chicago was a 1 1/2 hour drive minimum downtown thru horrendous traffic and congestion with parking nighmares. Duluthians don’t know meaning of traffic,for years my commute took me an hour to go 12 miles on backroads and I was in the suburbs. The cold north? The prior two winters Chicago had over 5 FEET of more snow then here and of course far more this year then here. There’s more and there’s some family connections also but trust me, am not Black, didn’t move here for welfare and not a crack dealer…neither are the others know which again includes 4 that are black. I started visiting area in 70′s and immediately saw the advantages to being here and so when opportunity arose took the shot.
To even make the assumptions you have and to even have to ask the question shows really not a clue about comparisons between the two areas. So maybe the correct question you need to ask is why do apparently you and so many here think so little of your own town that you automatically assume that people would only move here for welfare? Why would you assume that with a steady 1.6% of population here being black that blacks are moving here in droves just for welfare? On Saturday in DNT internet page there were 3 cases of white pedophiles on front page. My sense is this area is seething with white pedophiles like nowhere else ever lived. The shooting in Grand Marias and three armed robberies and rash of burglaries by DNT delivery person also in news just this week, all whites. Why do so many here instead portray all your crime issues in Blackface? Why with all these erroneous and false assumptions ignoring whites part and instead portraying all the negatives in this town in blackface would anyone even proclaim there isn’t racism here and WSP is a myth?
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Isn’t there a black man in the oval office?
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Thanks for the replies brandon and fastone. I didn’t have an agenda on this, but was just curious as to your opinions and why you moved here. I certainly realize land is cheap here….incredibly cheap. You’re right though, I am not all that familiar recently with Chicago and the area. I’ve been to Chicago a couple times, back in the 1970′s when my sister lived there….but it’s been a long time since I have been there. What I do remember is that she was a newly graduated social worker and wanted to work with troubled youth…..she found plenty of them in the South side where she moved, no problem there. She got mentally burned out in just a few years and moved. I remember staying with her in Inner city Chicago for a few days and there were bars on the windows and nightly shootings (it was summer, windows open and you could literally hear gun fire periodically during the night.
It was all a new experience for me since I was from a relatively benign (some might say boring) area of the country….lol. I remember going into a Jewel grocery store and it was the filthiest gorcery store I’d ever seen. There were open cereal boxes, open pickle jars, half eaten pieces of fruit and various other open items…..seemed like if you were hungry you just ripped something open and started eating right then and there….lol.
Anyway….haven’t been back since then…..so now that I’m reminiscing…..maybe I actually can see why so many people move here from Chicago
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Nice reply Jessica but kinda sidestepping issue. So why you assume and try to support the notion that it was primarily blacks moving here for welfare to point even posted a link thinking supported that?
Interesting you still were able to slip in negative portrayals of blacks though…mmmm. A little history lesson is in order on Chicago South Side. The Taylor homes and Cabrini Green projects were infamous for their gangs, crime and violence. Little know fact is that in Chicago’s cattle stock yard heyday, that same South Side area was primarily all eastern european slavic immigrants that moved there for jobs in cattle yards. When cattle yards moved, of course so did the jobs. The South Side slavic community spiraled down into drugs, violence and crime and became huge uncontrollable problem for Chicago. The answer was to sell this great jesture of building low income housing for blacks and moving them there knowing the slavic community was extremely racist against blacks and would scatter. It worked of course and today it’s the reason the slavic community is all on the west side. The problem was of course that history repeated self because didn’t solve the economic problems of jobs.
Behavior and intelligence is not race specific so one always has to usually look at socio-economic factors for answers. Like your allusion to blacks and how filthy stores in Chicago were, I’ve never seen such a huge litter and trash problem anywhere that have lived but I know it’s not that whites are litters and slobs and know that it’s tied to just general poverty here.
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fastone….thanks for a bit of the background of Chicago history. The only true way for opinions to change is to engage those of other backgrounds, experiences etc… I appreciate you sharing your experiences and opinions as I hope you do mine. I hesitated to mention my personal Chicago experience, but since it was a part of my life experience at a fairly young age (about 17 years old) it did of course influence my overall opinions/feelings about such things….how could it not ? This environment was so vastly different from that I was familiar with that I might as well been on the Moon. Perception becomes peoples reality…and unless we can change their perception, their version of “reality” continues whether it’s objective reality or not.
Speaking of objective reality, my posting the link I did about where people move was an honest attempt on my part to somehow answer my own personal question as to whether the many posters on here who (sometimes hatefully unfortunately) keep saying we’re being over run with people moving here from Chicago, Milwaukee and Detroit. You can argue, dispute or explain how the numbers on the chart happened and I welcome that, but the fact is the chart shows what it shows….it’s up to us to either dispute the numbers with better numbers or explain why the chart shows what it shows.
I couldn’t agre more with your statement “Behavior and intelligence is not race specific so one always has to usually look at socio-economic factors for answers.” You are so right here….but back to my original post a few days ago on this subject, I think much of the “race” problem in this country isn’t so much based on race as it is other factors such as socio-economic factors as you pointed out as well as stereotypes which come from observed behavior. You can’t change a persons race, but behavior (yes or course “desirable” is a subjective term to each observer) can be changed to more desirable behavior which will change stereotypes which I think would vastly change things for the better. It might be a long and arduous process (as most desirable social changes are), but it will happen and we’ll all be better off for it happening.
I think it’s a good things to point out that tough questions from any point of view aren’t the problem here. Pointing out an opinion or experience that differs from anyone elses is just being honest. Until honest questions/opinions/differences are answered, nothing will change. That being said, I appreciate some of the history of Chicago and how things came to be there that you have offered. Learning is the first step to forming new and hopefully better and more accurate opinions for all of us.
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Not to hit the nail on its head with my hammer but in case you haven’t noticed the influx of people from chicago does not meet the increase in jobs. For one to relocate they need to be retired, in school, employed or none of the above!! Enrollment in colleges certainly isn’t busting straps on a belt, jobs are down, and the welfare here certainly is worse than chicago….. wait I lied about that last part, the welfare here is substantially better. what take 3 months to get a house here takes over a year in chicago. So while some people relocate here for work and school, the majority certainly is not coming here for the spectacular views and 40 acres!!
I should mention I tend to work with a subset of population that does not work, an overwhelmingly number will tell me they are from chicago or msp, and they didn’t move here to ski, they moved here because of the “bad violence” that is from those areas!
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So, Thomas, why would the welfare in Daloot be any better than anywhere else?
And, the ‘subset of population’ you work with, tell me, are they Poles, Irish, or Native American? What’s an “overwhelming number”? Five out of seven?
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To answer your questions there is not a government program called “welfare”. Welfare is a term used to describe the socialistic programs that hand out “rations” of a certain commodity. Each state controls how ,inch money is allocated to such programs which include but is not limited to; housing, food aid, heating costs, health care, transportation. Minnesota sends a vast amount of its tax base to such organizations , thus hard working people like on this forum complain of the “great welfare” handouts! Now continuing on Duluth just so happens to be a great hub for such non-profit, and government entitled programs. Phew ok had you just done your research instead of asking me we could have skipped all that!! Next the subset is simply non- working free riding individuals that flow into Duluth from Chicago Detroit and Millwauke, the issue in which I was responding to did not involve race!!! Over- whelming just liked you answered in your question means greater than normal or greater than 50%but less then 100%. Again had you picked up a dictionary I could have saved all the other readers a few seconds of their life!!
But to comment on this campaign it’s total nonsense! Racism occurs from all colors of skin. The fact that stating I’m rasist because the color of my skin gives me an unfair advantage in this day in age is bs. I came out of a trailer park community, where there is less than ideal high school to college maturation. I have worked hard all my life and I don’t think the whiteness of my skin has ever given me the answer to a test question, or made my mortgage payment!
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I’ve read your disclaimers that you did not intend to call whites racists in your campaign. Well believe me, you have failed miserably! I am by far the least likely person to be called a white supremacist or a racist and yet your city’s campaign has labeled me, and many others as such.
Is it only white people who can be racists? It seems to me that American blacks are the biggest group of racists there are on planet earth, pointing fingers at all others and crying racist for any perceived slight!!!! American blacks even categorize their own people using racist rhetoric using terms like shine, nigger and pass!! American blacks couldn’t interact with any other race for an hour without playing the race card! Something that you would never hear a pastor of any other race harp on is what race Jesus was, and yet I’ve been in majority black churches where the pastor purposely talked about the race of Jesus, mentioning it more than a dozen times prior to the message, and he wasn’t even the preacher delivering the message that morning; I was, as a guest.
I was raised in the deep south during the 1950s and 1960s. I saw the discrimination, the separate restrooms, the separate water fountains, the “separate but equal” schools, and yet my parents taught me that there is no one that I am superior to. I have spent much of my adult life working in cultures and countries where I, a white man, was the minority and yet I have never felt as though I were a better person, a higher class individual or more deserving than any other man or woman around.
I can tell you, however, that any man, white, black, green or purple, who comes out attacking me with preconceived ideas of how I am just because of my skin color, will not find me open to embracing him, his ideas, or his needs. As a white man, married to a black woman for over 40 years, and now living in Alabama I know what it is like to be discriminated against because of skin color. We both get it from all races. So until you can walk in our shoes, where neither the black or white community is an accepting haven for you, then you have no idea what discrimination is all about. Therefore, this whole “un-fair campaign”, with its attacking me because I’m white is just as repugnant as you attacking any black man for being black! Your Mayor, Don Ness, the YWCA (and its leadership) and your whole “un-fair” organization, should be ashamed of yourselves because you are the true racists!!!
By your ill-advised actions you have not attempted to heal racial divides in Duluth, but set them back 40 years or more!
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As a proud caucasian I’m not sure if the racist billboards should be interpreted as, I can’t see racism BECAUSE I’m White or I’m exempt from racism BECAUSE I’m White?
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I would love to post a lengthy tome’ here but I am late to my PWM club meeting. What is that you ask? Its where white men in Duluth go to get everything handed to them; money, transportation, a home, a boat, an atv, or a boat if you like. Whatever! It’s all there for the taking but only for the privileged white male. We don’t have to work hard, save our earnings, pay for schooling, books, braces, medical costs, none of that stuff! HELL we don’t even have to WORK if we choose not to! Why you ask? BECAUSE silly! We are WHITE MALES. Our life is inherently stress free and easy! And we DON’T EVEN REALIZE IT!
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