Crystal still aims to hire
January 15, 2012 at 5:35 pm in Grand Forks Herald
Company zeroes in on local replacements; new workers hurt profits, union says
American Crystal Sugar Co. continues to advertise for local replacement workers, including in the Herald, in the sixth month of the lockout of its union employees. Continue Reading
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
51 
126
Oh…here you are Jeff….say I just wanted to tell you that Benedict Arnold spent much of his own money to fight the American Revolutionary War before he switched sides. He did so to make money. I haven’t given or have I received any funds whatsoever. Apparently I screwed this all up.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
59 
18
What makes you believe they’re having a “hard time” finding workers Jeff?
And….if you really want a CLEAR picture of “hiring reality” during this process, perhaps you should climb on the soapbox you enjoy spending so much time preaching from anyway and make some demands or suggestions.
You should ask for the following conditions to be met because you’re oh-so-curious about whether or not anyone in the area would EVER consider working for such an “unfair” employer. I’ll add a couple of key things, anyone else can feel free to add more.
Remember everyone, this is to help Jeff. He thinks nobody wants to work there. He’s all confused right now and believes that in the current situation picking up an app at ACS puts an applicant in the exact same boat as applying anywhere else. He’s wrong, (as usual), but we can try to help him.
1) Make the positions permanent, so prospective applicants don’t have to wonder whether or not they’re getting hired on for a week, a month, or….something else.
2) Take the union out of the equation. Anyone that applies, meets the criteria, and is hired DOES NOT have to pass by, (and put up with), the funnel of locked-out workers at the plant gates. Nor do they have to wonder about retribution.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
106 
34
Jeff has a hard time formulating an opinion himself. He just spews whatever the kool-aid drinkers at his weekly Liberal meeting of the minds tell him to.
Give it another week and he will be blaming this whole thing on Bush.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
80 
19
Correction Capt: You should have said “Liberal meeting of the mindless”
Just sayin…..
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
49 
13
What choice do they have? None. That’s the only option.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
68 
15
or the better option 2 get the lockout over and everyone back to work
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
83 
19
When I first read the numbers I was surprised. They showed a much bigger hit than had been anticipated. Then I took a closer look. The comparisons cited in the article are to last year. As the article clearly says, last year was a record year for production and profits.
If you take this years numbers and compare them to an average over the last five years, the production and profit numbers are off about 22%-25%, which is what the lockout was estimated to cost the growers.
This 25% threshold is important. Going much above it could dampen long term profitability. As long as they stay a few points on either side they will be ok. It has to be remembered that part of the reason this is happening now is last year. They have the extra cushion needed to weather the losses.
This action is most certainly costing ACS a considerable amount of money. It is not breaking the bank however. Since production was down compared to previously, profits would have been down correspondingly regardless of who was processing the beets. Add onto that the increased production costs, and there were no real surprises in the report.
As for success in finding local replacements: GF has a very low unemployment rate. No one expected lines around the outside of the Alerus waiting to apply. I think they are doing pretty well overall.
One factor that hampers recruitment is the temporary nature of the jobs. My son’s boss let him know right up front he would not take him back after the campaign if he quit. Since the $15 he is getting from ACS is a heck of a lot better than what he was getting before,he split the difference and is working two jobs.
Many local employers who can’t/won’t compete with ACS in terms of wages are protecting themselves by taking a hard line to those who want to leave. Can’t really blame them, they have businesses to run too.
A positive effect of this lockout is that if it continues into next season, local wages will go up because local employers will have no choice but to move closer to ACS wages in order to keep their workers.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
88 
18
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
30 
91
Jeff,
If this was your company they would be bankrupt and my son would be out of a decent job. I vote no. Nothing personal.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
79 
23
“THEY” just aren’t getting the profits we had hoped.
“YOUR” greedy fiasco continues…..
How does that make sense Jeff?
You call them one thing and imply yet another.
Please read your post before hitting the submit button, you’re giving Liberals a bads name.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
72 
17
Jeff what about the greed of the union leadership. Their members are locked out yet they still get their paychecks.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
68 
15
I wonder if she banned Dead Inside? I swear that I will never get over this. What did he say that was so much worse than several other posts I’ve read? A certain female poster has been much more offensive. Was it based on his avatar or his moniker? Did she get away with it since she’s a woman? I want Area Voices to rethink this issue and give Dead Inside back his voice. Take me instead…I can be a real pain at times.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
48 
5
I must of missed it. Did dead threaten someone or something? How in the world do you get banned?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
46 
5
This reply looks like they haven’t been brought to their knees and are prepared to continue until ???
http://www.acsccontracttalks.com/dawson2.pdf
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
58 
7
After reading that letter all I can say is WOW!! The union is truly sacraficing their local members for a shot at keeping the larger locals throughout North America. I believe both Kelloggs-Canada and Kelloggs in Battle Lake Michigan have contracts that expire this spring. It will be interesting to see what the union does for them.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
67 
12
My bad, should have said Battle Creek, Michigan.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
41 
5
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
41 
5
@rich guy… its one thing to need something… its another to demand something and then throw a pity party in their honor…. and let us not forget, this is so Crystal will still be going for years to come and be able to have jobs for the RRV that pay so well
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
38 
7
That letter….is…..awesome. (For those of us who don’t struggle with comprehension, that is.)
We *may* have to send someone to Jeff’s house to read it to him though. Actually, let’s schedule the stop at Jeff’s house for later on. Reading it slowly to some union representatives should probably come first.
It’s one thing to observe union publicity stunts, recognize them, and discuss them on internet message boards. Calling them out on it in an official document is….just….priceless.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
52 
11
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
13 
55
All people know about you Jeff is that you live in Crookston. Seriously…do you think Scott is going to wander around town asking about you showing your little picture?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
43 
7
Have them read you the letter while they’re there.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
46 
8
Jeff: Lawyers cost money. If you are a locked out worker I would spend my savings on something more substantial – like food. Unless your lawyer is cheaper than mine, even when you are working you can’t afford them.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
50 
9
its not like we said that u are in the worlds smallest camper and your last name is holbeck and we gave your addy
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
31 
6
South Hubbard Street, Crookston, MN?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
20 
5
Thank you for posting this. An excellent read. I love primary sources (the historian in me coming out again).
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
38 
6
I think we have to give Torrey and little laughing girl and Jan Bailey a little breathing room. Obviously, after reading the company’s response to the January 11th, informal The Company= their management and The Union=their leadership, meeting, both sides have shown no inkling of backing down. So, as Torrey and little laughing girl have said, this has turned into a war of attrition. The Union says ACS is in ruination. The Company says, we gave you a “excellent” contract offer. And so the replacements go on.
Meanwhile if you’re a Red River beet grower or company shareholder, let me ask you this,
Are you feeling as if you want to through in a hefty signing bonus, say $7,500.00 each, to get these disgruntled union members back to the “Jobs we Love”? Or are you a bit, perturbed or rubbed the wrong way at the Union’s tar and feathering of you?
I’m just curious?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
47 
9
Looks to me like this union can’t, or doesn’t want to understand that their 1940′s bullying and tactics aren’t working! What they really need to do is defacate or get off the pot!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
72 
16
opps…defecate….
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
49 
12
tactics back in the ’40′s were ax handles, brass knuckles and the Pinkertons. i don’t think that would go over very good in todays society
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
47 
10
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
8 
39
This 2012 union of the 40′s has gone nunchakus to nun-nuts.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
44 
13
Good deal. There’s plenty of local citizens that are looking for decent paying jobs around this area.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
41 
12
Jeff H. Get this through your head. Crystal wouldn’t want a jerk like you back if you are a “locked out” union minion with the attitude and mindset you have.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
51 
12
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
11 
47
Even you jeff, even you.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
42 
8
Yes we are Jeff. But you’ll have to cut us some slack on occasion. As you’re well aware, in addition to being God’s children….many of us are, well….”minions”.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
45 
6
absolutely love your sunday christian comments. but that is ok, when your really asked you’ll have nothing to say.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
38 
9
An excellent article in the Forum about ACS and how its structure has changed over time. Good background for everything going on.
Jeff, et. al., will like that the articel questions if ACS is “acting in the spirit of a co-op” whatever that means (a business is a business. Sole proprietor, Inc., LLC, whatever: you still have to make a profit or close)
I think it did a very nice job of reminding people how much money the growers spent to buy the business. If the union wants to pony up $86 million in 1970s dollars (probably $150 million now) then I may be willing to listen to how they believe a business should be run. Until then: not so much.
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/347380/
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
48 
7
I am interested in hearing the unions side of the latest media buzz. Can someone with credible union information inform us of why the union decided to break negotiations and offer a proposal. Why didn’t both sides follow the procedure that was agreed upon and try to work through this. Thirty five minutes is not a very good effort considering the length of time this lockout has continued. Please, offer some valid explantion as to the rational behind this.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
53 
3
Please allow me the field this one. You’ll be waiting until the sun burns out for “credible union information.” Take care.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
53 
8
….and unions also find it difficult to “follow procedure” under many circumstances. “Following” a procedure is viewed as an admission of sorts that someone ELSE may have a hand in the driving of the bus. Not really the type of thing they’re comfortable with.
Now if you happen to own or run a company and they hear there’s an opportunity to elbow in and WRITE procedure for you, well….that’s a whole ‘nother ballgame.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
48 
5
There are people moving into the RRV due to the high cost if living in the oil patch. As long as there are good jobs with good benefit packages it won’t take ACSC long to fill positions.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
50 
7
Joe and Scott,
Those are my knee jerk reactions also. I just thought I would throw a legitimate offer on this board and see what kind of response is out there. You have two sides basically accusing one another of not negotiating. ACS doesn’t respond to the media often but posts certified documents sent to the union, workers, and government officials regarding the status and causes of this lockout. I am providing an opportunity for a reasonable response, if the union can not respond, it should be a message to its members that it is no longer credible. When ACS stops posting verifiable documents and starts to fight the media war, I will be more receptive to the unions claims………
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
50 
4
I agree that my “reaction” is a “reaction”, but it’s faaar from being a knee jerk reaction. I’ve participated in hobby-related forums for years, and as a result I’ve seen and been involved in lots of discussions on topics like this when they’ve come up. There are union and non-union people involved in many hobbies and activities, and it seems as if there’s always a contract up for renewal or re-negotiation somewhere. I’ve heard the stories, I’ve seen the “evidence” used in support of a union’s position, and it’s mind-boggling to me that a lot of folks believe there’s no such thing as a union-mindset, or that partaking in the union Kool-Aid can cloud what might otherwise be clear-thinking.
I first tested the waters on this topic in particular for a couple of reasons. Reason number one was that waaaay back in the beginning, a relative posted on a social media site that she was being locked-out. I was curious, and read further. She went on to say that the “final offer” the union was given, was the ONLY offer the union was given.
Even as an uninvolved bystander, I KNEW that wasn’t accurate. So the question became, “what gave this employee THAT idea?” The only answer COULD BE that it was hearsay. Hearsay that was regurgitated as “fact”. The question that then naturally needs to be asked, is which party in this situation would benefit by spreading rumors like that to the employees?
I started reading the messages here, and the more I read, the more my suspicions have been confirmed. One side produces documents, posts letters, links to third-party sites, etc., while the OTHER party has done just about everything they can to convince people WITHOUT using information that’s in any way verifiable. As if THAT isn’t enough, they openly criticize the verified information provided by the other side and label it propaganda. And if that STILL isn’t enough, then we have the numerous faux pas the union employees and their leadership have been involved in while this has all gone on.
So….”reaction”? Yes.
“Knee jerk”? Nope.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
46 
7
I absolutely agree with you. I too would enjoy reading any form of legitimate documentation from the union. Unfortunately, I have yet to read anything other than vague demands, and of course their want for all things to return to exactly the way they were.
I will admit that I may have missed something and would appreciate any links, articles, etc. that will allow me to better understand the union’s position. I have read on numerous occassions people asking Jeff, Jane, and others to simply answer or state the unions demands. However, emotion seems to trump common sense, and their responses quickly turn to personal attacks and name-calling (for example: shills, scabs, minions).
I want you to know that I applaud your efforts in seeking answers to questions many of us would like to know. Until that day comes, good luck and take care.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
47 
7
Just wondering…..how long can this circus go on?? what are the rules, in regard to….. is there a timeframe after the lockout began where, if there’s no agreement, the company can just say sayonara?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
43 
6
@jimbob they have until Aug 1st… 1 year after the (lockout)…after that the union is out… the people there will be offered PERMANENT positions. to which they can start making a life here in the RRV… I will make sure to welcome these new people to the area… as far as the good employees that worked at crystal.. Im am more then sure that your job will still be there
if you want
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
38 
12
@vander519
I’m afraid you’re wrong about that. I was reading the labor law regarding this and I believe all that happens is the employer can call for a decertification vote once a year has past. If this vote fails the lockout goes on indefinitely.
I was trying to find a link to that part of labor law but I am getting tired and gave up for tonight.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
34 
4
I heard Dave Berg say that same thing during a news conference after the growers meeting on KVLY.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
34 
3
@Paul you are correct… I guess I was getting at the fact that Aug 1 would be the earliest they would be out (i should have been clear on that and i apologize) they can continue to pay their dues as long as they want just to tie up this whole process as long as possible… but if they really want to spend whats left of their money just to make it difficult for a couple more years then whatever, they prob will do it just for spite and because clearly they are the black crayon in the box (for you union guys, that means your not that bright) either way it is what it is
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
36 
9
There have been lockouts that have lasted 4 years. My guess, this one will last 2 years.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
34 
6
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
10 
46
I am not sure what you are getting at @paul I looked at the SEC page and it only looks as if there is a 20-23% increase on anything, that being said you might be pointing something different out that I am not seeing. But for now the company seems to be inline with what they have said it would cost them…
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
36 
6
I am with you Gussy. There is no chance this will be over before the end of this season at the EARLIEST. My guess is they will at least begin next year’s campaign with replacements. I would not be surprised if they finished next year’s campaign with those same replacements.
A lot will hinge on how they treat the local replacements during the down time. If ACS is smart, they will keep on a larger than normal skeleton crew for the maintenance and preparation for next year. Since they (ACS) are free to choose which ones they want to keep – what a novel concept, reward those who deserve it – they can hand pick the leaders who will give them the most bang for the buck when all the newbies show up next year.
Having an experienced workforce is invaluable, but as any manager will tell you, one toxic employee, regardless of how experienced he/she is, can ruin an entire department. That more than any other reason is why you as a manager have to have control over your people. To do otherwise is to invite disaster.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
44 
8
Exactly Jo and Scott!! I think that there are union people out there that would like to see the same information as well instead of the hearsay.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
42 
3
We have only received two pieces of mail from the union since this started. The last piece was about ten days ago. It was a bulletin dated November. The information was so old it was useless. If they have anything written down it is probably on a yellow legal pad. Sad but true.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
39 
6
*** If they have anything written down it is probably on a yellow legal pad. Sad but true.***
And it’s probably written with in pencil….with a large, (and well-used), eraser close by.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
35 
8
ooops again. It should say “probably written IN pencil”….with a large, (and well-used), eraser close by.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
30 
6
maybe Crystal could pay them in in gum!!!
http://youtu.be/tviPLpD8VG8
hahahahahaha
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
30 
7
I wish I was paid in gum…(sigh) ;p
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
29 
4
Me 2 joe, me to
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
28 
4
thanks to all for your replies to my question. and no, vander, i’m not affliliated in any way with ACS or the union.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
28 
4
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
10 
37
“They aren’t worried about profits or a good product anymore”. Are you for real here? Do you really believe the company is only out to get you, no matter what happens to the company? Just when I thought the union couldn’t possibly say more ridiculous things, I read this….Yes I remember all about the cancerous tumor fiasco…except your memory and mine differ on what Dave Berg said…Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe he called the contract that and not you…but then you don’t want to hear the truth just what feels good to you.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
43 
9
John:
You need to think your statement through. You are correct; if the union disappears no one on the ACS Board will shed a tear, but busting the union is not their reason for being: making money is. They view the old seniority structure as a threat to their ability to make money in the future, so it has to go. If they can get rid of seniority and keep the union; they will. If they need to get rid of or emasculate the union in order to get rid of seniority, they will do that.
If this explanation sounds a little like Abraham Lincoln talking about slavery in the Civil War, that is because it is. He said if he could save the Union and keep slavery, he would do that. But if it took getting rid of slavery to save the Union, he would do that too.
In both cases what was seen as a danger to the main point (get rid of seniority — preserve the Union) was doomed from the outset.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
32 
8
Truck Driver; I so understand your problem with companys not wanting to hire Crystal employees…The only business that I know of that will hire Crystal employees is Simplot and now their more senior employees are talking about going to Crystal because they are doing all this overtime, training for people they know will walk as soon (if ever) the contract is signed…I know this because my daughter put an application in yesterday…Quite a few of the Crystal people are not happy there and are quitting soon after they start… They also get laid off for 2 weeks every few months….They say, “I just want my job at Crystal back”…While I understand why an employer would not want to hire and train in Crystal employees; I do hope for you that you will find employment soon…best of luck to you!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
30 
4
See Lindesy….36 people besides me want to know when Dead Inside is coming back. We miss our buddy. He’s part of the group and things just aren’t the same without him. Soften your stance and lift his ban….please…pretty pretty please.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
22 
5