Union leaders request meeting with American Crystal Sugar
January 11, 2012 at 12:12 pm in Grand Forks Herald
Union leaders for locked-out American Crystal Sugar Co. workers say they have asked a federal mediator to lead another round of negotiations with the company.
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Why? So they can tell their rank and file to vote “no” one more time?
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Torrey there is ignorance all around this issue.
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In the words of Jan, (a frequent poster in another thread), “We’ve been willing to negotiate all along! We just do NOT feel we need to make ANY concessions”.
(I know, I know….it seems illogical and inconsistent. Can’t we just get past the whole “making sense” thing and move on with the *negotiations* though? Why must we get all caught up in the traditional definitions of terms like *negotiating*?)
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I wonder just how much less will be offered from the company this time. Wage freeze comes to mind.
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Let’s hope for peace and understanding and acceptance
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The signs of acceptance have to pass though many stages. They are as follows;
SHOCK & DENIAL-
PAIN & GUILT-
ANGER & BARGAINING-
“DEPRESSION”, REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
THE UPWARD TURN-
RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
I hope, sincerely hope the participants have arrived at the RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH stage and are ready to leave the anger part behind.
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Where you been Skatey? Haven’t seen you on here for awhile.
Folks Franken was sending a public message to the union. That is they are on their own. The problem the union has, from those I talk to who are locked out, is there’s no leadership. There’s so much strife and division, internally. No one was ready for something protracted like this. They wanted more, yes, from Crystal but not at the expense of losing a half years wages. Workers want to go back but they are powerless on their own.
Meantime parents are pulling their kids out of the schools and moving away. Houses sit empty.
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Margery; While I agree with most of your post, I disagree that it is out of the employees hands…They can decertify…They can stand together and tell their leaders that they have had enough. Living in a small town in North Dakota and being a locked out employee I am not seeing kids being pulled out of schools and many houses sitting empty…if this continues much longer that will certainly be true.
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I’m in Crookston. Some of the kids missing from our schools have gone with their parents as they’ve left the area. Empty homes albeit up for sale, are also a remnant of those moves.
Also what’s the incentive for Crystal to want to move on their offer now, when the sugar processing is winding down towards the spring? Yesterday a online ad appeared using the words “Crystal Sugar is Killing the Red River Valley”. It was put up by the union. Acceptance or still stuck in Skatey’s anger stage?
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Magery; I totally agree that Crystal at this point does not need the employees back…Slice will be done in April…The union over played their hand here and will be losing much like what happened in Keokuk.
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Yes I too saw that anti-Crystal Sugar ad. You got it wrong tho girl. It said “American Crystal is killing the American Dream!” And it added, after you clicked on it, “Crystal Sugar’s greed is destroying the Red River Valley.”
Listen up for those interested, this coming from the kinder gentler Rich Guy. If I were the shareholders I’d instruct ACS to sell it’s regional plants to a new buyer. That’s right! Sell out lock stock and barrel. And why not? They’ve taken a hateful beating from these national unions trying to come into our backyard and tell us how we’re gonna live. They’re gonna tell us how much to pay and how much to share and provide cradle to grave life time job benefits. Ya got that wrong! That’s called the American Welfare System.
But, Crystal and the shareholders need to sell to a new private owner who doesn’t need union contracts or union workers (it’s the law!, their choice and they wouldn’t be bound by a past owner’s union burdens a.k.a. contracts). They could start fresh, new name, new employees and no union contracts. Cyprus Minerals did it with a bought out former Reserve Minning taconite plant. So have others. They pad good wages, benefits and none of the workers want to be unionized. The new sugar owner contracts out with ACS and nobody skips a beat. Same profits.
Let’s stay civil and nice on here. Thank you all!
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They could call the new sugar company, The Sunshine Sweet Company or SSC. Let’s have fun. Can you come up with any new names for a new sugar factory?
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I like the kinder gentler RIch Guy. We are mostly friends now and I hate the bickering.
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Sun Dog Sugar. That way it dove tails with my choice for UND new name
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Marg you’re thinking of running for C-town council this year. Should the local politicians got ahead of the July 30th contract vote and tired to get the union not to reject the contract? Think of the collateral damage to the greater community, Crookston. People turned against one another, loss of business. Maybe local taxpayers should have put their own signing bonus for the union to have not created this mess in the first place?
This is a discussion point and not bury me, automatically, in the red check mark square.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Yeah I suppose the city taxpayers could have subsidized the union workers with a local tax payoff but the resentment would be huge against them. Instead the council and chamber needs to be ready to welcome the new workers to town and see that they are protected. They, unfortunately, are to be the new citizens. I don’t see this strike getting settled before the end of the year, 2012 into 2013
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Has anyone else seen the signs that no one wants to live in rural areas anymore? Children in this area are leaving for the Twin Cities like bugs to light. Do you really think that people are going to stampede for lower-paying factory jobs at a company that clearly values their top execs so much that they are willing to publicly increase his salary at the same time that they want to decrease the salaries and benefits of long-time employees? Really? Anyone out there saying “Yep, I have been waiting until a job opens up so that I can move to Crookston.”? Get real, if young people stay in the area, they move to Grand Forks or Fargo.
So those good people in Crookston should be considering what services they want to cut. With the losses in population and LGA, the school district will be the first cuts, but not the last. But like many of you have said, it’s a market thing and it is not personal.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Justine:
ND kids have been running to the Twin Cities since the 1950s if not before. ACS lock out is far from their minds (even the kids whose parents are locked out). I have said many times on many different threads that the MNPLS/St. Paul Chamber of Commerce needs to give UND a plaque. We are their greatest supplier of talented, educated workers.
People are fleeing the rural communities because they want more. They want options. They do not want what they grew up with. Kids have been doing that since biblical times. Some will decide more is not what they want and come back, others will be gone forever.
Rural is a lifestyle. It is not for everyone.
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Exactly, that is my point. Young people move away for more amenities, but no one is moving to Crookston for a temporary factory job. And they probably aren’t moving to Drayton either. In the 1950s families had 12 kids on each farm and were able to keep a stable population while exporting children to more populous areas.
My point is that I see the good city of Crookston starting to die and this whole thing did not help. But as I said long ago, sometimes people get what they ask for.
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No argument from me. Replacement workers are by definition temporary. There is no reason to move. My hope is the workers will decertify & many of the temporary will become permanent. Then maybe a few will stay.
Rural ND was dying long before the ACS lockout. The temporary gains from the oil patch are just that, temporary. Face it, very few can survive ND.
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Sadly for Crookston the sun has set long ago on prosperity and fame. Thief River Falls, in a out of the way place, is rocketing away with jobs and ingenuity. Crookston, always on a crossroads, highways and in the past, two railroad lines, has become nothing more then a stop along the highway. So if you want to say Crookston isn’t a happening place I’d have to agree with you. Too many of the same old boys running the show for too many decades.
And yes, young people want opportunity. Hats off to Grand Forks in the way it’s developed as a regional center. At least, visiting GF, doesn’t make one feel as if they’re stuck in the sticks.
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Oh, one other thing to add. If I was on the Crookston city council and had some like minded collaborators we’d start a program of buying out downtown building owners, one or two a year and then demolish the properties and clear the lot. It would be a land bank for future development. There are too many vacant buildings now downtown and the only idea leaders have come up with is approve it as a future skid row. Sad
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THere’s nothing to negotiate. Its over. Many of the union have already crossed over and are working as regular “temp” employees. Very few stand outside the gates on shift. THe community never came out in force to support you. Check out Career showcase in the GF Hearld every sunday first page. FYI KFGO makes you look pathetic.
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Dayton is strongly pro union and as Gov. it is totally inappropriate for him to present himself as a mediator, he has a job and needs to do that now pretend he is some labor mediator. The union has been clear, it is willing to negotiate but not make any concessions. Translation we will meet you can flap your lips for a time then accept our demands. This union does not want to return to work, it wants to sit home, not in ND, and collect unemployment.
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Amen Gene. To sit down with the governor would have been cause for dismissal. Negligence is never in vogue.
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because Governor dayton is pro-union. always has been, always will be. for him to “step in” and declare himself impartial on this matter is laughable. the NLRB has twice ruled that management has been negotiating in good faith. what more do you want? (besides everything to go your way)
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The company wrote Dayton a letter stating that they would sit down with the Union leaders when they were informed by a Federal Mediator that they had been contacted by those Union Leaders.. Getting Dayton to sit down with the company was a ploy on their part because the Union knows they could storm out and go see.. We are trying. Crystal is playing ball on the up and up and following the procedures set for by Unions in this country for Contract/Labor disputes.
Lets just hope that Union Leaders have finally decided to actually negotiate.
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*** Management refused to even respond, and even put a gag order on the governor’s office. ***
So Jennifer, if an interested party would like to view a copy of the “gag order” that “management” put on the governor’s office, how could one do so? You ought to know by now that the time-honored union tactic of “sliding comments in” in the hope that folks will just believe it and repeat it, sort of….well…..loses its effectiveness when those comments can be *Mythbusted*.
Of course I will accept and acknowledge what you posted IF and ONLY IF, you can provide verifiable information that supports your statement that management put a gag order on the governor’s office.
Nice try.
Ball is in your court.
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Jennifer,
They chose to not participate in a political theater stunt. In a political circus event.
And the company didn’t put a gag order out. The federal mediator who is trained on resolving disputes like this asked the governor’s office to back away. Basically saying that their “assistance” wasn’t helping the situation and more likley hurting the negotiations. This mediator is an impartial party. I think that speaks volumes.
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The only thing I will say about the MN governor is that he sure didn’t look like a trained professional mediator during the state shutdown.
The mediator will schedule a meeting only if there is movement towards resolution. It would be interesting to see what the union is proposing.
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do a little research before your start flapping your lips
http://acsccontracttalks.com/dayton.pdf
when you click on this link you will see why dayton backed off… its because its the union who doesnt want to talk, conceed, or work for that matter… so Crystal will move fwd with or without you guys
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Jennifer it wasn’t ACSC that put a “gag” other on the governor. It was the federal mediator. He was asked to refrain involvement at this time.
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Governor Dayton only became involved because the union gave him money for his campaign. Don’t kid yourself. He was just looking to keep his money coming.
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Listen politely. Put forth the same contract as before, maybe throw them a bone: 15% on healthcare instead of 17% but DO NOT budge on seniority and outsourcing. Remember, this is not about healthcare. If it was it would have been over months ago.
They are 2/3 through the campaign. My son says they told them some time in April for starting to finish up. There is absolutely no reason for ACS to give the union the time of day. They have proved they can do it without them.
He likes working there. The hours are long and its not the best job he ever had, but it beats the heck out of what he was doing before. Plus, the baby is due in March. If he gets to stay on till April: Perfect.
Before all the scab talk starts: you had your chance — twice. Simple as that.
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Congrats on the grandchild.
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Thank you Allen. This will be number two. That said, I stand by my belief that I am not old enough to be a grandfather. It must be someone else’s son.
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To bad your son proved you wrong on the age thing..
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True that
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The fear mongering by the National guys about the sugar program going away is just that. While there are many tea party members that probably won’t vote for it, the rest of congress knows that they have to continue to support agriculture in this nation or we will end up in a worse hole than we already are…
It isn’t that I agree with that stance, but it is the reality of what they believe. Rick Berg has stated that he doesn’t support the Farm Bill, but where he sits right now in the opinion of North Dakota voters he can’t afford not to support the Farm Bill if he wants to continue holding his cushy job.
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John: From a purely political/strategic/this is war point of view, why would management concede anything? They have won. For six months I have been saying in a war of attrition ACS wins. They did what they had to do and will make a profit. There is no reason whatsoever to make any concessions.
The trouble with going “all in” like the union did with their second vote is if you lose, your game is done. They lost. The union is simply a bystander hoping for table scraps. They do not have any leverage whatsoever.
As far as the Farm Programs and Sugar Bill: they are in deep trouble regardless of our little local sideshow. I do not believe in the farm program or the sugar bill, but I believe they need to be phased out; not simply eliminated. This years farm bill should be a five year shut down plan.
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There is to much in the Farm Program for it to go away.. It is way to engrained into the economy for it to go away. They might be able to excise portions of it, or whittle it down. While the midwest is agriculture heavy, all states have some benefit from the program. Most people don’t realize that this program has its roots going back to 1933. Getting rid of the Farm Program would be akin to shutting down Social Security. It just isn’t going to happen.
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You very well could be correct. I will be the first to admit I do not know what is in every nook and cranny of the “bill.” It is massive, there is no doubt about that.
NAFTA and the farm bill are at odds with each other so it will be interesting to see which one wins. The entry port at Nogales, AZ is the busiest commercial entry point in the US (which is surprising since Nogales is a very small town). It is the main entry point for trucks on the NAFTA highway from MX up into the US
This is a very volatile subject in these parts, especially after MX trucking companies gained permission to drive into the US. Previously they had to turn their loads over to American truckers. The Teamsters were apoplectic. Interesting days a head that is for sure.
By the way, I cannot remember the last time I bought a piece of fruit that did not have a Hecho en Mexico sticker on it (made in MX). That could just be because I live in the SouthWest, but I think that it is pretty much the same all over.
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Very good summary FN. In a nutshell.
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Flying nun- actually the nafta and the farm bill are not at odds with each other. Nafta allows products produced in Canada, Mexico to enter into the USA duty free if they qualify by either tariff shift, or regional value content provided they are manufactured in Canada or Mexico.
All this talk about the farm bill covers many areas other than just agriculture.
Currently sugar is under quota. Only a certain amount of sugar is allowed to be imported into the USA. The US market is protected and we pay higher costs for sugar. Currently the sugar bill is being reviewed. If the quota is pulled and sugar from overseas is allowed to be imported our markets will be flooded. The cost of sugar to the consumer will decrease.
If the sugar quota is pulled the union workers won’t have to worry about getting their jobs back because their wont be any jobs to be had, certainly not at such a high wage with great benefits. The farms will have to plant other crops as they wouldn’t be able to be competitive in pricing. There will be too much cheap sugar.
Food for thought. A company usually knows if rules are going to be changing as they have their lobbyist. Could they be preparing for what will happen?
I know we will hear how the union played a huge part in the farm bill but really realty says they didn’t.
I hope they are able to iron things out but I am sure many workers have already moved on.
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Thanks for the reply Joan. You are my resident Farm Bill expert.
I am having trouble with your statement that NAFTA and the Farm Bill are not at odds. Like you said, NAFTA allows merchandise to enter duty free. Its sole purpose is to increase trade.
That said, the Farm Bill places a quota on sugar that can enter the US. That is the opposite of increased trade.
I agree the Farm Bill is very good for the RRV; our life would be vastly different without it. I just don’t think it is acceptable to say it is compatible with free or increased trade.
The Sugar Program quotas are similar to what the auto industry wanted in the 1960 and 1970. They had it good and did everything in their power to not have to change. I do not want our agriculture to suffer the same fate. Much too dangerous for us a country.
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Flying Nun- Yes Nafta does allow merchandise to enter duty free to increase trade.
Quotas and anti dumping actually protect certain industries.
Quota only allow certain products to come for a time once filled it can no longer enter for that year.
Imagine if all countries could dump all their sugar into our market. Sugar would be cheap and since they do not have to pay the wages, etc that we do their sugar would be cheaper than what our companies could sell it for and ultimately would have to stop producing sugar in the USA.
Lets look at the textile industries. When quota was removed Canadian and US textile and clothing manufacturers went out of business because it was cheapter for them to import it from overseas then manufacturer.
It seems that the people working for ACS have no idea what the farm bill does and how nothing is forever. Laws change all the time. A change such as the removing of the sugar quota will be devasting for this area. Sorry if my relpy is out of order new to this posting on a thread.
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John: “I think that there should be some recognition that the employees hard work made all of this possible. What are the workers getting? ”
Had the workers agreed to a contract, they would have been getting a paycheck.
The growers/ACS are the ones that made it all possible by investing in the equipment and infrastructure, paying wages and insurance for the employees and producing the input to the factory.
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“Had the workers agreed to a contract, they would have been getting a paycheck” Wow! Another slam dunk! Very good soft point but hard hitting just the same. People are really doing a lot of deep thinking on this not just gut responses. Good insights everyone!
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***What are the workers getting?***
That’s easy. They’re getting MORE than they’d be getting elsewhere in the region for the same types of jobs.
***I think nothing is not a good offer.***
You can “think” whatever you want. Despite what your leaders have told you repeatedly, you’re not in the driver’s seat here. If you “think” it’s not a good offer and choose to reject it, a lot of folks really wonder why you seem befuddled that THAT decision may have consequences.
Take off the union goggles for a second and try to imagine life outside of Contract Land. What do you suppose happens elsewhere when you go into the manager’s/supervisor’s office at annual review time, and at meeting’s end you “don’t think” what you’ve heard is acceptable?
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The union needs different negotiators. the company and union had an informal meeting yesterday and the union blew it, how do you blow an informal meeting? The negotiating team is a bunch of hot heads that need to be taken out of the equation. 3 -4 months til end of campaign, hmmm to me that means the company did it without the union, even if it cost them more money it’ll just be easier next year. This whole thing is playing out exactley how keokuk did and nobody in the union is thinking about that. If you don’t remember the past your doomed to reapeat it. That is exactley what is going on here, and what is this union used to stand shoulder to shoulder with the company crap, workers go to work to get a paycheck, nothing more nothing less.
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Frank, how did the union blow it? Does this mean that there will be no negotiations? IF so, maybe some union people will start to see that national union is the reason the process is being dragged out so long. Locals want to get back to work but Bertilli’s agenda is different.
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I always thought the locals should dictate to nationals in local disputes…how did it end up the other way around?
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Unions are allowed to move the goal posts at will.
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george the union blew it because the negotiators they have in place suck at the job. and the meeting they had yesterday was to see if they could meet in the near future, they weren’t negotiating the contract. I mean how far are the union leaders going to take this, most people just want a paycheck.
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When your only argument is “you got a raise and I want one too” you will not get very far. I like what ACS had to say about tying labor’s wages to profit, just like the CEO.
Labor rejected that out of hand. “We can’t tolerate that type of insecurity.” It is ok to bash management because they got a bonus, but it is not ok to put your pay on the same level as theirs? You mean you want top wages regardless of how things are going?
The union is toast. I for one hope this lockout lasts a very long time. I am usually pro union.
These bunch of clowns are changing my mind … quickly.
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Excellent point, flyingnurse. The union schleps want their guaranteed contract, wages and bennies. Fine. They also want a cut of the profits if the company makes money? Hmm. Sorry. No.
That’s not the way contracts work, unionistas. If you want to work in a seniority-based system, that’s your prerogative. You can get exactly what you negotiate for. But for organized labor and its members to claim proportional entitlement to company profits when they flatly refuse to take a proportional part in company losses is so logically backwards that it only reinforces my belief that labor unions have long outlived their usefulness.
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Frank, hopefully the local unions can continue to speak out about thier desire to meet with the federal mediator. It seems that is the only way the union will negotiate. I think Bertelli and Riskey are willing to let thier people hang as long as they can keep feeding them lies. It looks like the locals are finally getting fed up with this tactic. I would definately demand some new leadership if I were union!!
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Schurkey: I admire your decision to stand by your convictions. That is something that is not nearly common enough anymore.
I disagree with you, but I admire you.
I could do with a little less sugar in my diet regardless of the brand.
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ha ha that’s a good one, less sugar in a diet. How true. Sorry ACS but I use sweet and low on my bran flakes and anything else not used for cooking. Then it’s only Crystal Sugar. Fudge wouldn’t taste right with sweet and low
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***I just hate seeing Corporate Crooks screw the employees. I know why they locked out the employees–this was a deliberate and planned union-busting activity.***
Perhaps you should take a look around and see what the compensation package for jobs like these is elsewhere in the area. The “Corporate Crooks” have been giving them more than they’ll get elsewhere.
And…..the posts that continue to show up saying that this was a deliberate and planned union-busting scheme always seem to omit an key point:
If this WAS, (or IS), a deliberate and planned union-busting scheme….AND….that scheme is so blatantly obvious, then WHY did the all-knowing and all-seeing union and its leadership fall for it?
I’m just not sure how the union, (and its leadership especially), could have been MORE “enabling” to the process….
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ooops….that should have been “omit A key point”.
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I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. I buy one bag of Crystal sugar for myself, and one for the food pantry.
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Just watched the WDAY broadcast about today’s negotiations. Same old same old. Some guy in front of the factory whining about how under the contract “they” (meaning ACS) get to decide who becomes a year round worker. Every time I hear something like this I just laugh. When did the inmates decide they were entitled to run the asylum?
NEWS FLASH: if I sign your check I decide who gets what job. To think that people actually believe (and these jokers do) that they are entitled to dictate who does what just blows me away.
Leaves me with no doubt that if unions do not wake up and get with the program they are headed down the same road as the DoDo Bird. A living wage and good benefits, absolutely within the unions right to bargain for. Taking the place of management: not so much.
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Nothing new there flyingnurse. Try this one on for size: A couple of years before the domestic auto manufacturer bailout, I was reading some details of a UAW contract that was being negotiated. In the prior round of negotiations, the union had successfully “won” the right to SET THEIR OWN production targets. After getting that, (here comes the good part), they were trying to get “overtime” redefined. Now for the rest of us, “overtime” is interpreted literally. We get paid more if we work “OVER TIME”. What the union wanted, was to get paid “overtime” for any work they did that exceeded the production target THEY SET FOR THEMSELVES.
I kid you not.
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The Reconing by Halberstam. An amazing book about the auto industry. Shows in graphic detail that both sides (management and labor) knew what was going on a full 20 years before it happened. Both sides were incapable of seeing a future that did not look like the past. Now an entire swath of the country is blighted because those who were charged with leading could not do what they were paid for.
The trouble with capitalism is it is very hard to hold people accountable. ENRON and the rest showed that. I am not advocating following China, but at least there when you screw up big time they shoot you. Doesn’t change anything but the rest of the country feels better.
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Could someone please throw a sugarbeet at the phonograph? the needle seems to be stuck in the same groove (rut) for months now.
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Replacement worker here. I just read a letter on the negotiations site that doesn’t seem like Crystal is very happy with this. According to them, they will ride out the campaign with replacements.
Honestly, I think that this needs to end soon. The people outside want to come back just as badly as the people on the inside want to go home. Why is it so hard for you unions to accept that times change and companies aren’t really obligated to pay anything other than your wages. Plenty of people have to pay their entire premiums like grown-ups. Accept the fact that seniority is also a rip-off. Accept what you’ve got an vote. Move on. Do whatever. Just think rationally. With the exception of a few locked out workers I’ve heard from here, I think that a lot of not bright people in this union need to be escorted clean to the gate after the vote. *cough* Brad Knapper *cough*
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I love hearing from you…this is a side we don’t get from anyone else. Thanks Dan.
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It is time for the rank and file union members to take a hard look and who they have speaking for and representing them (Riskey, Bratelli, Froemke). That would mean researching them, their backgrounds and history. They need to look at the character of those individuals and who they are really serving. It certainly isn’t the common worker who has been without a paycheck for 5 months. They need to really ask the question, “what have they really done?”
The owner/growers have invested THEIR money in THEIR cooperative and want it to move forward. This involves hiring the best people at more than competitive wages and benefits and promoting the best people, not beholding to an outdated 1950′s era union mindset. The union doesn’t run the company, the grower/owners do!
Maybe it’s time for the union members to either accept the offer or wash your hands and de-certify. I’m sure your old job is available. Please send a resume and 3 letters of recommendation to…
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think of all the money the workers have saved by not paying for health insurance fro 6 months!!!! oh, wait…
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Love it, glad CS hasn’t backed down. The union is a joke and the workers who think they deserve so much are a joke. Wish they could just fire the whole lot and start over. There are plenty of people that would work under the contract CS was to give them but the union thinks they are owed it all. Stand outside in the picket lines a little longer and cry foul play..Most people find you laughable and pathetic..
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