AMERICAN CRYSTAL LOCKOUT: Ending a fight in God’s house
December 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm in Grand Forks Herald
There were prayers, hymns, scripture and some tears Wednesday during a worship service at United Lutheran Church in Grand Forks aimed at reconciliation in the long-running labor dispute between American Crystal Sugar Co. and its 1,300 locked-out union worker.
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No one cares anymore. You know your issue doesn’t have legs when not many comment anymore. The locked out workers are old news, yesterday’s news.
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Did someone nuke this site??? What happened to about 165 comments?
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The union blew themselves up! The GFH had enough and has shut down coverage of the locked out workers. I think that 100 plus comments from a union member, whose postings have ALL been removed, has made that quite clear. GFH doesn’t want to furnish the forum for the strife.
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Silence is golden. Let the union and ACS work this out without the media sticking their nose in it.
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“PLEASE ALL…Pray and help to end the Lock-Out with us…we need EVERYBODY!”
Just what are you praying for? What is it you want answered in your prayers? Free healthcare? More money for wages? First pick on all future company jobs? Is this what Jesus was interested in, material life? Physical needs? Just how abstract is this whole thing getting? This is America. That means you aren’t automatically entitled to a job. You have to provide a service. Your group decided your services weren’t worth, to you, what Crystal Sugar wanted to pay. They and the shareholders have a cooperative, a group effort organized around running a business. You said your cut wasn’t enough. They said they’d lock you out to guarantee no work stoppages (labor strike) during the harvest season. They told you that up front. So what didn’t you understand about that process and why now, does God or Jesus or Joseph Smith or Mohammed or whomever you’re praying to, supposed to make this a religious dispute against ACS?
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This pretty much sums things up:
” I do NOT think we need to make ANY concessions”
Why is it surprising, (given that attitude), that “negotiations” failed….and a lock-out resulted? Why is it that some folks believe that “negotiating” only means having a discussion about how much more they’ll get? If ANY concessions, (by one of the parties involved), is supposed to be automatically OFF the table, then which party wasn’t/isn’t “negotiating”?
Take a step back from THIS situation, and imagine yourselves in any OTHER situation. What if you’re talking to someone and your goal is to hammer out an agreement that’s acceptable to both sides, BUT, the person you’re dealing with tells you up front what THEY want….AND….that they don’t expect to have to make ANY concessions.
How would you expect THAT “negotiation” to go?
No mean spirited-ness intended, but it simply is illogical to say you welcome “negotiations”, while at the same time declaring that you don’t feel YOU should make ANY concessions. Following that up by saying that the lock-out didn’t need to happen because you’re willing to “continue to negotiate”, well….that makes no sense. You just explained what your view of the negotiation process is, and how you expect it to go.
If YOU were the party in the discussion hearing THAT brand of “negotiation logic”, how exactly would you respond? Would you be optimistic about “negotiations” continuing?
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Jan Bailey, you have been offered a good contract offer…..TWICE! There is a two word phrase that you and many others are going to learn if you plan on having a union. “concessionary contract”. If those two words don’t work in your vocabulary, you should probably look elsewhere for work.
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What were the unions counter proposals? You say 1,299 employees..you do not speak for me…you also have not taken into account all the employees that have quit or retired…you can stomp your feet and shake your fists but that will not help you…Where is Bertelli?..He is the one that has to call for negotiations…you want to know why Crystal has not talked to you? What more can be said..take the contract or move on…Crystal will not negotiate through the media…My loyalty is with the company not the union…not Christian..really…now you have your answer..you seem to overlook the NLRB ruling…total union propaganda…how could Crystal BELIEVE you would not strike..your saying it does not make it so and it is attitudes such as yours that has put us in a stalemate here….Follow your union leadership and move on.
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There were NO counter proposals made.. All the union rep did was sit there like a statue nodding his head no all the time, refused to even negotiate. As far as im concerned all the union voters just followed like a bunch of sheep or lemmings, don’t know how to do things for themselves. Senority is a joke, it’s time workers pay their share of health insurance just like everyone else! To every other worker in the valley it’s just like you just didn’t want to work.. could just as well just quit your job if you didn’t like it while others are just waiting to take your jobs for the much better pay.
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Saying that there will ALWAYS be a profit in sugar is making the worst possible remark. That is like the person who said God himself couldn’t sink this ship (referring to the titanic). Of course there could be no profit in sugar…are you crazy? Darn near half of North Dakota was under water last year…you don’t think that could happen again? You don’t think that the drought we are in right now couldn’t adversely affect the growth of beets in the spring? There are so many factors when it comes to growing beets it’s not even funny and you are going to sit here and say you are entitled to this and entitled to that when there is absolutely no guarantee of anything…ever? Especially when the fate is left to mother nature. As well, you have no clue as to what will happen with the sugar program and whether or not that will adversely affect the sales of Crystal sugar. You have absolutely no clue what the future holds. You need to get your head out of your a** if you honestly believe that there will ALWAYS be a profit in sugar!!
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You will never get any numbers or facts from the union..Jan has said how if I were a union member I should have squashed what I have seen and heard because you don’t say that to a sister….you agree and accept what they are being told or you squash it. (the union tactics)
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Unions are so full of crap when they say they won’t strike, but they just turn around and do anyways They don’t really care about who pays them or the farmers that depend on the plants for their livlihood. All they care about is themselves when they go out and strike. We all know they were going to strike, there is no hiding it. All there would be to count on would have been the ones that decided to cross the lines to work. The voting members decided for many to take an extended vacation and told them to find other jobs, many of which are much lower pay. Now many laugh at the union when they said no one can run the plants like they can, Hmm Well the plants are running very well without them… kind of a slap in the face isn’t it. Wal-mart hires.
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EVERY worker should vote on the contract, NOT just the Union sheep allowed to vote.
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I felt the caring when I read about the inflatable rat holding a noose with a monkey in it, as well as the racial slurs directed towards temp workers.
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John says “I don’t even think God can change the black hearts of the Crystal Sugar management.” Blacks hearts? There are over a thousand replacements workers who see Crystal management as their savior and answer to all of their prayers. Those replacement workers are earning a good living in jobs that, prior to July 31st, no one had a chance of getting. There’s always a silver lining, a glass half full. People are able to feed their families from the work Crystal Sugar gives them.
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John, how about the brains of the unionites?
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To union members who say that you would not strike, http://www.fortmorgantimes.com/ci_19166258 . This was at Western Sugar Cooperative last year, similar situation in which the union had agreed to work under the old contract until a new contract was negotiated in good faith. Well, needless to say, they threatned to strike forcing the Co-op to agree to thier terms. I also commented very similarly in CDT website. I think the majority of workers around here would not strike, but the union representation seems to come from Bertelli, which takes the MN/ND nice saying right out of the picture. I would like to believe that many of you were not impressed with the flyers in the grocery stores as well.
As far as the 1.5 billion in profits, please realize many capital investments run the company 20mill easy. There is alot of risk, as well as reward, for the growers. Our compensation is up and down, along with upper management. Yes, they have a base, a nice base I do admit, but the salary they take home this year will not be the same next year, it will be much less along with the growers cut. When we have a bad year, your income will stay the same, there is alot of value in that.
Jan-I think it is a good thing to turn to God and ask for help. I pray for an end to this, not for one side or another. Hopefully everyone can have a Merry Christmas and forget about this, at least for a day or two….
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george
Since you bring up the possibility of a strike once the beets are in by showing the news from Ft.Morgan I will clarify some points that I am sure you weren’t told at the grower meetings.
1 It is in the contract that BCTGM has with ACS and wanted to extend to work thru negotiations that it will be a breach of the contract to go on strike ONCE the beets are in and processing has started. That has been in the contract for years. So to go on strike would be illegal and subject to legal penalty
2 The article from Ft Morgan concerns Drug Testing. We at ACS who are Union employees are subject to hiring, reasonable suspicion already and ACS wants to add more drug testing. The Union counter proposal was OK we can go along with that but lets include ALL employees, Union AND MGT. ACS turned down this counter offer. Why would they do that I wonder. Are they afraid that maybe some Mgt people might be caught or is it that they believe that ONLY Union people might be under the influence of alcohol/drugs.
3 The business has many risks financially that we Union people are not exposed to, you are correct about that. As for giving back when the company has a tough year, I think that is figured into the contracts we have signed over the many years I have worked there. It is the same with many companies. We do not get to share with the boom years and are shielded from the bust years to a certain extent.
This is a response to Ralph Kingsbury’s letter. He mentioned many great risks that growers and mgt have taken over the years. Also mentioned how growers and mgt have done great things to make ACS the company it is today.
I will not disagree with those comments.
What I will disagree with him about is his failure to utter ONE word about the Union workers, current, retired, dead or alive who put forth more effort to making ACS the company it is than he could ever imagine.
Maybe it is HIS mindset that has ran up and down the Valley and put ACS Mgt, growers and Union workers in the place we are in today.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Wilson- I appreciate a well written response with facts. A nice change instead of mudslinging. My response:
1. The union would have had the power to strike before harvest started. The union could have waited the day before and walked off the job and ACS would have had NO back-up plan therefore the company would have no barganing power. Also, the union knows the plants better than anyone, I belive you would have had the power to slow production enough to force mgmt into a contract. Like it or not, this situation is about who has the upper hand, mgmt learned from the previous ACS strike and the threatned strike at Fort Morgan to not allow the company to be exposed to that threat.
2. I agree with you, if ACS says the union should have random drug testing, then all ACS employees shall be subject to it. I am going to check in on that, and if that is true I will definately voice my opinion.
3. From my perspective, listening to many, many other growers, the union and factory personell are well appreciated. The executive staff has went out of the way to praise the work at meetings and to let us know without the work you do, ACS success would not be possible. I know they have also told the workers that too.
This lockout is viewed as a direct insult to workers. I can see why you are upset, but I think you can also see where the company would have been at a huge risk leaving the union as the only workforce without a contract. Unfortunately, deals are not done on a handshake anymore. As far as the rest of it, there is propaganda on both sides.
Just one comment and then I am off my soap box-Berg’s comment about the tumor has been exploited so much and been the focus of many news articles and opinion pieces. In the audio clips, he makes a point to say he is not comparing the union nor the workers themsleves to a cancerous tumor. With that, the union and the AFL-CIO have molded it as a direct insult directed at the workers from Berg. Both the unions website as well as the AFL-CIO site have labled these as anti-worker statements. These are the actions that lead me to believe that the union would strike if given the opportunity.
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I still think it comes down to the fact that one side had to have the upper hand. Again, even if the union had a one year contract, there would be nothing stopping you from walking before harvest started. If contract talks were not progressing the way you would like, it would be easy to put the squeeze on ACS. I’m not criticizing you, its human nature when you have the power to exercise it. Unions have been using this tactic for years.
The defense that I have for ACS is that it is documented where ACS made substantial moves before the lockout occured to aviod this mess. It is also well documented that ACS has been willing to meet with the federal mediator whenever requested. Lastely, the union negotiators, Riskey and Bertilli, have not requested a single meeting since the lockout occurred. As far as planning this for a long time, ACS needed to have a contingency plan. Replacing a workforce takes planning, it is not going to be done overnight or even over a couple of months. Those are facts and not propaganda. With that, I rest my case. Have a good Holiday season!!
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Or you’re a little boy whom your parents say they love dearly. Your name is little Johnny. One day the parents tell you, “Little Johnny, run your bike into that tree with you on it”. Would you run your bike, at full speed into the tree knowing it will hurt you? Of course not. Your parents said they loved you. They told you that you were special and wanted. But if you ran your bike into the tree you’d be hurt. Therefore you had to refuse.
That’s a story presented in a letter in Crookston back in September. The little Johnny story. It’s where Little Johnny had to report his parents to social services for trying to kill him. I believe the union said the bad contract was the tree and little Johnny’s head, the union. I think the message was the union’s brains would be scrambled if they accepted the bad contract (on July 30th).
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George,
As I think about this struggle, the lack of requests for negotiation by the union is interesting. They must think that they will have more negotiating leverage in the future than they do now. You always want to negotiate when you are in the strongest position, not the weakest.
So where would that extra leverage come from? Only thing I can think of is if the factories really can’t complete their work before spring/summer with their current employees. Seems like a big gamble. I guess time will tell.
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George: I think there’s a flaw in the idea that everyone should be involved in the random drug
testing. It’s very common with hundreds of employers that employees in risky jobs, truckers,
equipment operators, etc. are subject to random drug testing. You might have a trucking
company where the people in accounting aren’t tested and the people in the field, by law, are
randomly tested. Your county and state maintenance employees, utility workers, etc. are tested and the administration is not. Why test more than the law requires? It’s not personal. Following regulations is tough enough without frivolous overkill. This, and the hangup with
management bonuses and raises proves to me that this is not about fair pay for many of you, it’s
about wanting a piece of a pie that’s not yours. Bite the bullet on 17% of the healthcare and take
the great offer that was proposed. Then, lobby Congress to cut the cost of all medical procedures
in about half. Get to work.
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Employees are an expense whereas owners try to control expenses to make a profit. Employees have no right to that profit, only to fair compensation. You are like the utility bill, a necessary expense, but have no right to share in the profits any more than the power company. You can get hung up on the random drug testing, management compensation and all kinds of things that are none of your business. Good luck being happy on the job.
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haven’t seen steve bertelli around here much, he must be busy at his day job , THE MOB!!
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Know it well, in fact I have worked the harvest season a few times. No one is saying the people who work for Crystal are bad people. Just not realistic in today’s world.
As for my previous answer you are in no position to judge, and how do you know that is not my name……it is my pic.
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TJ go ahead and tell him and then tell him what does he do with the 200,000 dollars a years he gets off the backs of union members dues.
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tj you said you were going to beat up someone and that they would need a bat to stop you and even said you were going to their city to do it. That is a clear threat if I have ever heard one. Stay in canada, maybe steve bertelli will meet you there and you can help him spend his 200,000 dollars a year from union dues.
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Frank: I give up buddy….you win. No hard feelings. It was a good debate and I learned to keep my mouth shut. I also learned that I’m not as funny as I think I am. My idea of humor isn’t someone else’s. So can I come home after Christmas or not?
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Are you looking for a new job? If so, if you spent half as much time completing applications as you do posting, you may already have a new job for the new year. Take care.
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Don’t you just love all the goodwill this praying has brought to the dispute.
Instead of priests there needs to be an effort to bring trained conflict mediators into the picture. That might actually have a chance of bringing resolution to the problem (instead of the holy war all this prayer just unleashed!).
To get peace in the New Year, the sides will have to work for it instead of just wishing for it. I hope they do — and I hope they succeed!
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Really Steve? All the beets will have been sliced and processed by the third week in April. Maybe some wet pulp will make its way out into the fields or pastures for feed, but that will be it. Merry Christmas.
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Steve by that time it’ll be summer and that’s too long to wait to tell crystal I told you so. need to start seriously negotiating. It’s gotten to the point of a mob mentality of shouting we hate you. well last time I checked shouting we hate you , or the company is horrible didn’t get people very far. Theres no “starving the beast” and theres nothing a politician can do. It’s in the hands of the union and the union alone. lockouts don’t go on forever, there is a time limit and when that time comes the offer for sure will be less than it is now, lookup keokuk iowa and it’s almost word for word of what’s going on here. But they eventually accepted a pay freeze for 4 years, the union is going to lose if they keep on this track. it is the same bctgm leaders who messed up the keokuk iowa negotiations.
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Frank: You are on the right track, but think about this…I’m fairly sure that ACS’s offer is their final offer. Negotiating is a term that suggests potential for some middle ground. I was wishing for “communicating”, but I don’t think the law allows employees and management talk. I’d bet another vote on the last offer would sill be 80 or 90% opposed to going back to work. It’s really a shame.
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The company is in no rush because they are still making money. They know the union is not going to come up with anything new for negotiating so they can take their time. The company is in control and that’s the point they are making when they don’t want to set a date right away.
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Frank. You are spot on, but the company “rushed” two offers. The offers were almost identical so that should give us a clue. This isn’t about Dave Berg & the Union. I was talking about an employee talking to a manager in a strike or lock-out situation. I think it’s breaking the law. I think the employees should storm the union leaders and have another vote, but a majority seems preoccupied with management salaries, company profits and stuff that is literally none of their business. Some would describe it as “too stupid to live”. I think the employees are misguided.
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The company is in no rush because in a war of attrition, they win. We have discussed this before many times. Why this year? The record profits everyone is so fond of talking about. ACS was financially prepared to suffer a fair amount of loss.
Unfortunately, in America, the average worker is 6-12 weeks from homeless. The locked out workers have been without a paycheck for over four months. The longer this goes on, the stronger management’s position becomes.
I know this sounds cruelly analytical, and it is, but you can bet your bottom dollar planners on both sides were making these calculations long before the present negotiations ever began.
The union leaders knew they would have to garner public support and have a deal by Thanksgiving to have any chance of coming out on top. Unfortunately for them, it is Christmas and the public has largely sided with ACS.
This miscalculation will cost many people much more than their lost income. As Jan’s shrill tone indicates, many will lose their homes, spouses, and emotional security.
The union was foolish. They need to end this before there is nobody left to fight another day.
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It’s a really big game of strategy is why there is no date set. Please post the communication sent to the company of the union wanting to set a date. I don’t believe it. Since the NLRB has been involved, I would believe that all communications between the two parties would have to go through them. FYI, there are lots of companies of similar size that offer just as big of a benefit package to their CEO’s. That is how you get and keep a CEO that helps the company prosper. I think that the union is stuck on playing a game called “cloak and dagger”.
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reality to steve? hmm guess no one is home. The factories are running fine, actually got asked why there is less wet pulp being hauled out.. it’s because they are running more efficient now and able to dry more of the pulp while keeping pace with projected slice rate with planned extract as well. Not as many beets to slice as last year, so earlier finish date of end of april. What happens with the 2012 crop is anyone’s guess, could be good or bad, but if lack of snow, rain, might only have 5 mil tons to slice. Then growers will be in the red ink zone and factories finish in early march 2013. figure about 1 inch of timely moisture per ton of beets per acre.
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Merry Christmas to all the management, workers in the factories, You have been doing a Great Job! Also to all non union workers that unfortunately got tied in with the lockout, I’m wishing for u to be called back soon.
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Thank you Eldredton..I also wish the non union employees could go back to work but, that cannot happen…I am afraid no one will be able to go back to work this campaign..there does not seem to be an end in sight…after losing the Keokuk dispute and going backwards, my feeling is that the national union will not negotiate and this will go on for a long time.
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I think that was “the strategy” by the international. Keokuk got burned and now RRV,but that is still less than 1.5% of the membership of the union. The international knows that the RRV people will not let you starve or freeze, you may lose alot of material wealth, but that they will tell you was your choice. How else would the international approach other locals into signing “concessionary contracts” to keep their membership roles paying dues. They can point over here at the midwest and say “look what happened to those guys and gals”. That folks, is my conspiracy theory, and I hope for your sake I am wrong. Nearly all the comments on these threads have been about the local effect, with the idea that these effects are being manipulated locally. I don’t think that’s right.
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@Kassie
I hope you can get your job and vested interests back. I’ve heard from comments like yours from other employees that they’ve never agreed to this dispute. They just want to go back to work. They are not entitled to information from union representation because they are nonunion. They are in limbo.
Maybe the next phase will be to allow people like you back to work. Good luck.
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Thank you; I also hope we can go back…yes we are in limbo here…totally at the national unions agenda…I have been posting for a longtime that I feel this has come down to a power struggle….it is just not going to go away until one side gives and I dont believe it will be Crystal.
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My feeling is the union just doesn’t care about employee’s as a whole. Knowing how unions work if i was working at a plant i would have quit before the lockout, would have reapplied for the jobs being offered now, but who knows how that would have ended up. But Only the union members should have been part of the lockout, not the non union workers. I do think the ND factories would have been in good shape if that was the case.
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You sure to can get hired, but there is a piece of paper that you have to sign basically waiving any affiliation with the union. So if you have only worked there for a year, it would benefit you. If you have worked there 20 years, then you would lose your seniority and everything…it would definitely be a gamble, but hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do when you have a family to support.
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Steve the company was prepared for this, 200 million to a billion dollar company is just a hickup, even though I don’t know where you get your numbers from. Also I am fully aware crystal has multiple factories but it’s still 1 company and it’s the same contract for all. They can afford to have a less profitable year but with saying that they are still making hundreds of millions. This lockout is not going to bankrupt the company and they will make the cost of this up with the new healthcare package over a certain number of years. now really read the old keokuk articles and just compare, it’s the same stalled negotiations, same final offer situation, same prayer services, same bctgm head honchos, the same public reaction.
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well said RichGuy..thank you
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Taa Daa!!! rich guy is spot on with that analysis! Great comment!
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alvin
“This isn’t about Dave Berg & the Union. I was talking about an employee talking to a manager in a strike or lock-out situation. I think it’s breaking the law.”
I’m curious, can you quote which law you are thinking about?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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No, Paul. I’m speculating. I’m pretty sure employers are very limited in trying to influence individual union employees. otherwise, wouldn’t individual be talking.
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I think Alvin is refering to the National Labor Relations Act, section 159a.”Representatives designated or selected for the purposes of collective bargaining by the majority of the employees in a unit appropriate for such purposes, shall be the exclusive representatives of all the employees in such unit for the purposes of collective bargaining in respect to rates of pay, wages, hours of employment, or other conditions of employment”.
The company can’t “negotiate” with anyone but the union representatives. There is a fine line between negotiating and communicating and that is why you will almost always see that all communications will be via the written word. This can be reviewed for legality before it is released. ACSC has alluded to this rule in newspaper reports over the last 5 months.
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A lawsuit would be thrown out on the simple fact that there is no merit. You should be sued by your family for be ignorant and not providing for them. Somebody looking for something for nothing is a taker, not a giver, and I can not respect that.
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Wilson, I tend to agree with you, which is why my son is working two jobs. He did not quit his day job hoping the ACS gig would become permanent.
Philosophically, I do not agree that the situation was any different before the lock out. Labor and management always act in partial opposition to each other. There is always a tension.
Your comments lead me to believe you think that there was a time when labor and management held hands, sang Kumbaya, and went forth to make the world a better place. I do not buy that.
I freely admit I am as cynical as they come, but our entire system is based on the fact that management uses labor to produce a good that can return a profit and increase the owner’s wealth. In return labor uses management to supply the best possible wage for the least amount of effort so that they can enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
The relationship is symbiotic, but always adversarial. Both sides use each other to achieve their individual goals.
This is not necessarily a bad thing. We would not have the world we do today if the system did not work.
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FN…… Agree with most of what you said.
The part of holding hands and singing kumbaya around the campfire does make me laugh but has not and probably will not happen in my lifetime. There have been periods of better relations but as a whole you are correct in the basic mindset of us/them. No different in any work place, yours or ours.
Hope you have a Merry Christmas
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Feliz Navidad my friend
Hot debate. What do you think?
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***It’s all in their plan of covering their bases***
If you’re going to be upset about anything, be upset that your union and its leadership covered NONE of their bases.
***The LOCK-OUT NEVER should have happened and the talks SHOULD have been priority***
Good grief, what aren’t you getting? There’s DOCUMENTATION from an outside entity, (that got involved because of a claim by the union that ACS wasn’t bargaining in good faith), that clearly shows that one party in this dispute wasn’t doing much “talking”, i.e. “negotiating”. Which party was it again? If the “talks” were any sort of priority to that party, then why weren’t they “talking”?
So…..ACS is faking everyone out, the NLRB is faking everyone out….and if we all collectively stop insulting our own intelligence and just believe what the union says we’d be on track with the “facts”.
Really?
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My feeling is that anyone representing the company would simply produce the same document(s) they’ve put on public display since all of this began. Were “older” workers singled out in the contract offers that were made? If the proposals the union was presented with didn’t include any provisions that *targeted* a certain demographic, then on what basis would they attempt to prove they were being “discriminated” against?
When the union filed its complaint with the NLRB a while back, the NLRB naturally needed to do its homework to arrive at a decision. They decided in the company’s favor, and the union appealed that decision. The NLRB considered the merits of the union’s claims once again….and the appeal wasn’t simply denied, the NLRB’s language was something along the lines of “SUBSTANTIALLY denied”.
I think that’s relevant, because while the NLRB was reviewing ALL of the company’s proposals and offers, (and reviewing all of that stuff not once….but at least TWICE), don’t you think contract details designed to weed out certain workers would have caught their attention? Remember, the NLRB got involved because the union made allegations about the company NOT bargaining in good faith. So essentially the NLRB’s job here was to LOOK FOR evidence supporting the union’s allegations.
So what didn’t they see…..twice?
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But Harley1955, You have a union to protect your rights. You’d first sue your union if they didn’t get you your job back first. That’s why you go to the member meetings and ask for arbitration, so the union picks up the tab
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Think of it as a sports team contract with players.. sign the contract or we’ll find someone else to take your spot in the lineup. You voted no, so it is a logical choice to bring in someone that will do the job. You are basically free agents looking for another job now. I’m just hoping the nonunion workers are called back in to work since they were never allowed to even vote and do want to work.
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It is amazing that anybody is still talking about this whole ACS-lockout-union subject.
Hard as it may be for some to accept, the fact is the union is GONE. At best it will remain a token figure, with no power…..that’s simply life in the new business world, like it or not. Quit living in the past unionites, it’ll flip ya out!…seeing signs of that already.
Look beyond the RRV and recognize what’s happening in the ‘real’ world.
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Good for you Kassie! Well said.
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So just exactly how rich are you?
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“So just exactly how rich are you?” Wealth? What exactly is your definition of rich or wealth?
To a beet work it’s gimme gimme gimme and me me me. To a preacher it’s spiritual. To someone whose seen those with physical misery it’s good health.
It’s all relative depending on your viewpoint.
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Thank you again tj: I have said it before and perhaps not often enough…There are many very good people who have worked for Crystal, on both sides, be they union or nonunion…sometimes they get lost in the rhetoric…an” I” think you should be able to come home now…hope you had a wonderful trip over Christmas.
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Awesome….thank you Kassie. I’ll behave this time…I promise.
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As we have said before Scooter, if this was about healthcare they would have done just that months ago. It is the closed shop & seniority issues that are behind this maelstrom
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Joseph…..I agree with you, but I don’t think the union leaders are to blame. The union employees aren’t stupid….they each voted individually not to accept ACS’ offer.
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You are correct sir! The individual members have only themselves to blame. The stupid executive board didn’t even make a recommendation yayor nay.
I think the GFH wants us to stop commenting on this since we’re using up too much of their data storage.
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We have been talking about this for so long that we are mostly all friends now. We have to have some place to meet. So how are the wife and kids?
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And we’ll be talking about this 8 months from now, less and less. The biggest problem the union has is this will drop off the radar after the first of the year. The ONLY WAY to get anything going is for the union to make some kind of MAJOR concession or ANY CONCESSION.
According to what we’ve read, from the union members, they have no intention of going backwards thus, why, we’ll be talking about this for the next 8 months.
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You are probably right Skate….you and many of the other non-union supporters. I wish that the union members would have had the opportunity that I have had the past several months to correspond with many of you. It has helped me see the real picture. I can’t defend them anymore. It’s aggravating.
The union members that I talk to appear to think they are in the same fight they were back in the 80′s. Times have changed though. Back then there was a shortage of workers. Today there is a huge surplus. The game is different and not heavily in favor of the union as it was back then.
The long time employees are also grandfathered into most of the changes the company wants to make to their benefit package. So why not sign the contract and move forward? I don’t get it. The longer they are out the more they have to lose.
What can I do? I tell my husband what I have learned but at the end of the day it is his decision to make. I won’t nag him about this…I’m not his mom. We have moved on though. He works for someone else now. He can take 80% retirement from ACSC if he wants to and he probably will. Oh well…it was good while it lasted.
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The union could not strike while there was a contract in place. The company could not lockout the workers while there was a contract in place. That ended on August 1. If the union and company agreed to an extension a strike and or lockout could not occur during the extension, it has nothing to do with production. The company would not agree to an extension as the company was sucked into that hole last time and was not going to fall for that again. What did the union negotiation teams matching t-shirts say last time? “Will vote to strike” is what I heard. Late crop, short crop, company had the union by the short hairs, like it or not that’s business. Just curious where you are getting your production numbers from? Counting the trucks going into the factory while standing in the ditch? What are the slice rates now compared to last year’s average? Sugar to the bin numbers? Not your guess or assumptions. As for the people on the line every night…you have to be kidding me looks like they gave that up months ago. Big business does not bluff, they told the union what was going to happen and the union did not think the company could pull it off. Looks like the union was wrong and does not want to fess up and say “Sorry sir, may I please have my job back please?” So stand in the ditch for 5 more months it won’t get you anywhere and people don’t want to hear the sad song about the big bad company because we know what the real world is like. We just don’t care about this cry baby crap any more. All the tears have been shed and have run out to the sea. Time to move on. Oh and next time (if there is a next time) check out your pay stub a see who really takes cash out of your pocket…union dues and what has it got you besides more free time? Nothing. I need a drink.
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So where does everybody think Steve Bertilli spent his Christmas? I’m guessing Cabo on the beach drinking margaritas!
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Once I read about the surplus of $60 mil in the AFLCIO’s coffers in 2000 and how it shrank to $2.8 mil by 2008 I gave up believing in those goons. They promised better oversight in the future. What happened to $57.2 mil in eight years time? What kind of leadership is that? Why don’t union memebers question their local leadership about things like this?
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When you know what freezes over or all 1300 locked out unions members return to work with ACS.
What do you all will happen first?
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