by Grand Forks Herald
December 12, 2011 at 1:40 pm in Grand Forks Herald
Crystal officials not talking; feds ask governor not to commentNegotiations were to take place Tuesday, but sources tell the Herald they will not. Continue Reading
Tags: american crystal, Business, crookston, dispute, drayton, GF and EGF, hillsboro, labor, updates 222 Comments »
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I thought ACS said they were willing to talk anytime the union was?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 60 128
I do not know about that Mary, but I am glad ACS decided to ignore the manufactured sense of urgency and not play the game. The offer is still on the table, when the union wants to take it, it is there.
The “we will negotiate non stop until we reach a deal” is just political theatre and the same high pressure tactic a bad used car salesman uses. Thank God ACS is smart enough to ignore the ploy and wait for a solid counteroffer before returning to public negotiations — without the made for TV movie drama.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 141 62
BCTGM Local 22 doesn’t seem anywhere near the right frame of mind for a settlement. There’s still to much of a entitlement mentality. By that I mean not just the leader’s mindset but the rank and file as well.
The letter last week by Barry Nelson and others, on the subject of human rights, dignity and the rights of locked out Crystal workers, was unbelievable. The idea that the North Dakota Human Rights Coalition was advocating that American Crystal Sugar recognize the dignity and rights of BCTGM workers, signifies how far this thing is from getting settled. When BCTGM talks about union busting it’s them who are busting their own union.
For example, stop and read the following quote from the Crystal workers, perceived need for being respected as human beings;
“Responding to the horrors of World War II, the Declaration of Human Rights asserted, ‘Recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice, and peace in the world.’ ”
So if I understand the point their trying to make, theses beet plant workers are akin to the suffering of, say, the Jewish Holocaust survivors under Aldolf Hitler. Not in your wildest dreams BCTGM (or Jeff).
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 97 30
Skate: the Harold published my letter to the editor in response to that bit of hogwash this, morning. I hate the way they edit at times; they make my grammar worse than it already is. That said they thankfully left my main points intact-not the least of which is that it is unacceptable to cheapen & demean the human rights problem by comparing it to a peaceful labor dispute.
Still makes me see red. The arrogance & hubris are intolerable.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 71 17
I didn’t realize that was you.. But I agree with it whole heartedly. There was another one likening the union as something as American as apple pie and it made me throw up in my mouth a little.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 68 20
Thank you for that editorial FN. I also believe it is deplorable for these people to compare this labor dispute to the many instances of pure violation of human rights. Absolutely terrible.
It is so far beyond comprehension for me how people like my uncle (Pipefitter) and people like Jeff can live a life like a horse wearing blinders. They see every single aspect of life in 1 way. The union way. Un-freaking-belivable. I am sorry, but life is NOT black and white. NOT EVEN CLOSE. These people live, breath, eat, sleep, and everything else you can think of, union. I honestly feel that if the union said tomorrow that all union members and supporters need to stick it to the “evil corporations” by jumping off a bridge, most certainly causing death, these nimrods wouldn’t even think twice about it, because the union told them so. Logic and intelligence does not apply to these people.
It is much the same on the other side of the spectrum too, don’t get me wrong. I cannot stand these radical right wing catholics who compare homosexuality to having sex with a dog (trust me I work with one of these people). The same as with abortion, no matter if the mother was tortured or if she could die by giving birth, it is apparently wrong. It is SOOOOO beyond logical. Blinders.
It is just unreal and it all bothers me to the core. Sorry, but with the ACS debacle, it is a 2-way streeet. BOTH are responsible for this and it will take BOTH to end this. But the union are digging themselves a grave, I am afraid. Guess what? There IS a recession, it IS a terribly hard economic time. To live in this fantasy land where no matter what the company HAS to treat you like Kings and Queens by paying 100% health care, is TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY BEYOND STUPIDITY. Nobody else, anywhere in this country, gets treated so well. Times are hard on everybody, including companies. To think that life can just keep going on as if NONE of this is going on is nothing short of completely delusional.
And, finally, there is this idea that the bosses get paid big bucks to sit on their thumbs and do nothing. Are those of you who believe that really that stupid? You think a company can survive without insuring income? The people who make the sugar are the only people who do anything? Who the heck do you think sells the sugar that is made? Who supplies it? Who advertises it? Who handles the investors and stocks? Who ensures that the company performs as it needs to, to ensure profit and sustainability? I will tell those of you one thing, it sure is NOT the workers. So the boss doesn’t deserve to make more than the workers? HAHAHAHAHAHA. That’s all I can say about that. Purely delusional.
Thank you for listening to my rant. Remember, keep an open mind. Life is not black and white, it is all grey. And it takes 2 to tango.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 70 22
so beyond illogical*
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 16
Well said. Are you surviving finals?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 24 7
Yes indeed I am thankfully being a graduate student means 1 final this semester….and though that final won’t be easy its much nicer to focus on 1 class than 5. Thank you for asking!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 27 7
Yup-Let’s keep it real simple with plantations and slaves. Everyone knows their place and no unions. That’s the republican way….
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 14 67
“their” ??? this is one person’s opinion. Please do not categorize us all as one individual. When I post something I speak for no one but myself….not even my spouse. Not all union employees feel the same way just like the grower/operators.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 23 3
“Your comment is awaiting moderation” Say what!? Why?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 43 7
SB X: It has to do with your IP address (not the content of anything you wrote). Are you on a personal computer or a shared (library, etc.)? I contacted the admins about this and they “approved” my IP address and I never get this message anymore.
I agree it is annoying when it takes hours for your comment to post.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 41 5
One of my college professors defined extinction as “the failure of an organism to adapt to a changing environment”.
I can’t think of anything that better describes the unions behavior in these last few months. The union seems to feel if they use the same playbook from the 50’s and 60’s things will go in their favor, and they could not be more wrong. Crying for the cameras, strong arm politics, lies, threats, and harassment are not substitutes for acting like an adult and waking up to the world around us. Unfortunately the only people who will suffer for this lack of adaption will be the local union members. Comrade Fromke and Mr. Bertilli will still have a nice Christmas with their families unaffected by the poor decisions of their leadership, (just assuming American communists celebrate Christmas) and the upper union levels of each factory will still be making their house payments all thanks to the union dues of those who cannot. With no end to this in sight I guess the only question is “where do we send the flowers to?” since the union is choosing to go the of the Dodo bird.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 124 36
Sorry that is “the way of the Dodo bird”
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 52 19
welll said Jeff….Crystal Sugar never wanted to offer from day 1.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 39 88
And I felt dirty just typing the words “American Communist”
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 35 9
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 43 10
@ FN-“I do not know about that Mary”, Really FN you didn’t know about that? It was in all the papers and TV. Are you cherry picking again? Ah yes…works good for you republicans. ACS is just doing one huge flip flop after another and you don’t know about that. To refreshen your selective memory ACS did say they wanted to talk very soon and get this settled. Now they don’t want too. That’s a called a flip flop FN. Thats one of the reasons people don’t trust your corrupt corporation. You are not entitled to your own facts FN. Please research a little deeper before commenting please.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 42 119
***To refreshen your selective memory ACS did say they wanted to talk very soon and get this settled. Now they don’t want too***
And you’re assuming they don’t want to meet because they haven’t responded to this manufactured crisis and pseudo-deadline? Guess what Jeff? You’re not entitled to your own *facts* either. As for “doing a little research”, perhaps you should do some of your own. Everything ACS has proposed since “negotiations” began is out there for everybody to see. In addition to that, the union’s UN-willingness to “bargain” and “negotiate” is also out there. Has desperation changed their tune a bit? Well I suppose it has. Have the posts on boards like this allowed some of them to see things a little differently? Yes they have. Have comments from union members about the lack of foresight and preparation by their “leaders” pressured said “leaders” into being more willing to negotiate? Once again…the answer is yes.
Does ANY of that erase what they’ve said and done up until now? Hardly. If the union thinks they’re AT ALL in the driver’s seat at this stage of the game, it indicates that they’re still a wee bit confused. If the union says they’re willing to “return to the table” and negotiate NOW, while at the same time pointing a finger at ACS and pooh-poohing them for not jumping at the opportunity to participate when the union says so, it makes one wonder why they spent time NOT negotiating before.
Same old union nonsense. “We’ll shoot ourselves in the foot, but the mess on the carpet….well that HAS TO be someone else’s fault”.
Do some research yourself there Jeff, BEFORE you start blathering on about “flip-flopping” and other such nonsense. Choose one of the handy online dictionary resources and look up the word “objectivity” before you post anything else.
Or….soldier on with your “my posts don’t need to make sense and/or be consistent, it only matters that there are LOTS of them” philosophy. It has worked fabulously so far. I’m sure you’ve changed tens of minds.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 111 32
Wow-How many paragraphs to say absolutely nothing about my researched point-which was-“To refreshen your selective memory ACS did say they wanted to talk very soon and get this settled. Now they don’t want too”-That was my point-It was in all the papers and on TV-No matter how much you twist and spin things-these are the facts. Are you saying ACS did not say this? That would be false. Therefor the familiar right wing term flip flop. Merry Christmas
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 26 89
Welcome back Jeff. You & AlwaysCorrect climbed out of his mother’s basement again I see. Of course I know Jeff. I read the paper every day & keep up on the other various sources of information just like you. I was being a smart ass.
I have said all along that playing the manufactured pressure game was a losing proposition for ACS so they would be smart to ignore the governor in this case. I am glad to see they took my advice; even though they don’t know who I am
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 72 22
A smart ass huh? Let’s see…what do the Rush’s and ilk say when you have them dead to rights? Just joking or something similar. At least you didn’t deny saying it like that would make it go away. Videos are a right wingers worst nightmare. Maybe Kerry was just joking too…..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 13 55
Republicans…corrupt corporation…entitled. Sounds like a broken record.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 39 18
Some people must not enjoy playing Jeff’s buzzword bingo as much as I do. Sheesh.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 38 5
From the ACSC letter to the Gov. You can read the whole thing on the ACSC web site.
“The union leadership makes public statements that they are ready to return to negotiations, but more than a month has passed since the union’s rejection of the Company’s amended proposal
and we have not heard directly from union leadership or through the mediator that they are interested in returning to negotiations. This is consistent – the union leadership has not requested any negotiation meetings since July 31, 2011, and has not shown any sincere interest in bargaining at the negotiation meetings called by the federal mediator.”
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 110 32
for all you union members on the fence; pardon the pun, what creasybear has written deserves to be stated again. ” the union leadership makes public statements that they are interested in returning to negotioations, but more than a month has passed since the unions
rejection of the company’s amended proposal and we have not heard directly from the union leadership or through the mediator that they are interested in returning to negotiations. This is consistant- the union leadership has not requested any negotiation meetings since July, 2011, and has not shown any interest in bargaining at the negotiation meetings called by the federal mediator”
Crying in to the media ” we want to negotiate” doesn’t accomplish anything. Your union leader needs to pick up the phone and actually dial the federal mediator; He then has to ask for a date to meet. Crystal has told the mediator when you hear from the union tell us and we’ll be there.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 104 27
And if I might add… Fromke has NO say what so ever in calling for any kind of talks. Only Bertilli can do that and he is not talking to anyone! So what ever comes out of Comrade Fromke’s mouth means NOTHING! No matter who he says it to, media or union meeting. Wake up people!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 81 23
This reinforces the fact that the Govenor should stay out of non-public company business. ACS has made concessions, the union has not. All the union has come back with is “take the healthcare issue off the table and we’ll talk”. That’s not a concession, that is a demand.
Face it union, you have and will continue to lose this fight with ACS, and deservidly so. Take the raise, pay half of what the average American pays for thier health insurance, and get back to work.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 104 28
Non-public company business????? Take away the foreign tariffs prohibiting the importation of sugar from Central America and ACS wont sell another cup of sugar in the USA. The fat cat farmers can go back to producing wheat and soy beans and this whole selfish mess will be eliminated and the American taxpayers will be spared billions of dollars in subsidizes.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 34 86
siouxfan! it’s people like you that are the cause of all this junk coming to this country from china, the overall net loss of good paying jobs in the U.S.! Food brought from other countries does not meet the EPA or USDA standards the U.S. has to go thru to raise a crop! You don’t even know what they even put on it, most of the smart public knows what they put on does not meet the chemical residue standards that must be kept here which is 0. I am one that will not buy any product grown in foreign countries for that purpose. I like my food to be pure and approved by the USDA. Sugar program costs the taxpayers NOTHING!!!! Corn is very HIGHLY subsidized at a rate of millions of dollars. You apparently don’t know a typical 1.75 oz candybar selling for 70 cents only has 1.7 cents of sugar and we all should be proud to have food that is stamped GROWN IN AMERICA!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 41 9
Crytalsugar is crappy refined sugar anyway. Their product will be obsolete in the future anyway unless they switch to a minimally processed organic sugar. All this processed crap invented in America is the reason we now had to come up with the term organic. If our scientists and businessmen had stayed out of the food business, that wouldn’t have been necessary. EPA or USDA? Wait a sec, that’s who you are trusting your bodies to? Aren’t their leaders all former higher ups in giant agra-business? Aren’t they the ones approving genetically modified food they can’t sell in Europe?
A little off topic, I know, but some of these you conservatives grew up with access to all this info and don’t have any excuse for drinking the Kool- Aid
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 44
I meant young conservatives
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 34
There is nothing that can go obsolete with sugar, some wonder why there is no organic sugar.. It’s too expensive to deal with, there is no money to make from organic unless the price of sugar is more than doubled due to the need of increased labor costs and much lower yields associated with it. it was already attempted and failed due to additional costs of segregation of it… major money loser cuz no one wanted to pay more for organic, plus there is no gain with organic anything. Even soybeans that are attempted organic.. 50% lower yields due to weed competition, only a few dollars more a bushel.. Just no profit in organic at all.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 46 4
Oops I accidentally gave you a thumbs up Eldo. I don’t agree with you Eldo because you are evaluating the issue based on the economics and current industrialized farming techniques. These techniques did increase yields and allow soil depleting mono-culture to be perpetuated. The problem is the many flaws of our agra-industry have come to light and more and more people are turning away from it. My family is willing to spend more of our modest income on foods that are unprocessed and grown without chemicals and genetic tampering. We are not alone. As more people join us we will be the mainstream and the bottom liners will follow. You already see large corporations at least paying lip service to natural products on their packaging. Come join us Eldo, we are going back to the future!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 38
Sounds more like your going back to the year 1900 racer. If we had those yields now with current population all crops would be more than triple the prices they are now. There is no benefit to organic.. unless u like a little added protein to ur produce LOL. nothing like finding a worm in ur organic fruit… then u can dip it in chocolate.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 29 4
Yeah that’s why it’s better to have a bunch of chemicals to kill that stuff. O rganic is too dirty!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 4 14
Good point, I missed the mark on this one, having checked the USDA web site I see that farmers no longer receive subsidies for sugar production. My bad.
I have spent a tremendous amount of time in Central America and no one is suffering from bad sugar,,,,,,
I dont cause the junk coming in from China, I have absolutely no control over import tariffs, nor was I involved in GMC moving its production of hybrid vehicles to China, you will need to talk to Pres Obama about that one.
The ACS dispute has gone on long enuf, Mark Dayton, while I despise almost all of his views will be a good person to get this nonsense resolved. The NMB has no business asking him or his staff to remain quiet. As a matter of fact he, not they, is our elected representative and his involvement speaks highly of him.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 30
Ive eaten many foods in Mexico, but the sugar i see there looks somewhere in between light brown sugar and white sugar.. not as refined as you see here. Busy looking for xmas presents that say Made IN America… It’s been a challenge.. but will buy made in Mexico rather than china… I wouldn’t mind more import tarriffs on stuff coming from oversea’s to balance the budget. Maybe then we’ll see more stuff Made in America
For the last 5 days, no one seems to be talking to the media. Not ACS, the union or the mediator. Maybe they are talking to each other. Maybe everyone here should just relax and wait to see what happens.
Read between the lines. If the mediator doesn’t want Dayton to talk, then likely something is going on behind the scenes.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 63 14
I was thinking the same thing last night. I hope the company stays strong.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 51 25
I hope the union stays strong….
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 14 53
Strong smelling. They smell like defeat and poorness. The replacement workers smell like sugar, consumerism and taxpayers.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 42 8
The last thing the GOP Plantation Owners want to do is talk to a Democratic Governor. The company doesn’t want this over until the union is toast and they grind the workers into the ground. Cut the sugar subsidies and let the chips fall. And by the way, how about an INS visit to the Crystal Sugar work sites. Might be interesting.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 32 85
John, I think the union has been “toast” a long time……move on!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 66 24
Isn’t Gov Dayton the same clown who closed down the MN State government and locked out the legislators this past July for three weeks because they would not approve his proposed budget? Who is he to try and mandate action of a privately held company?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 88 21
The shutdown was from both sides, and settled by both sides. To try and equate the two events is just dumb. BTW, seen your property tax bill yet? You can thank the legislature for the increases you see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 20 54
So it appears at least 10 people don’t understand what LGA and Homestead Credits are. Must be from the wrong state.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 16 36
Probably just people who have nothing better to do than cruise the forum
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That must be a Minnesota thing….and LGA is what Local Government Aid? Strange system of taxation, and yes, I don’t understand it or have the need to.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 41 6
LMAO!! but the governors shutdown ended up costing the state millions of dollars in revenue that comes in from the state parks and other sources.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 40 6
Yes, but I don’t see it as the Governor’s shutdown.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 29
ACS isn’t responding because they are busy training in new personnel to replace the company that replaced the union workers. Replace, replace, replace is the key word here. Apparently none of the union workers are “getting it.” We have all told them the longer this goes on, the more they risk losing their jobs for good and this is exactly what’s happening. I know some people who are training now and I saw what’s being offered as far as benefits and they are more unbelievable than any benefit package I’ve ever seen and this is just for a “temporary” employee. I can only IMAGINE all the benefits that come with being a union employee and I cannot honestly believe that in this economy, anyone in their right mind would give that up. They keep crying about their 17% raise only covering the increase in healthcare costs, but what they fail to do is research the subject to see just how lucky they are. No one else I know is getting enough of a raise to cover the cost of their rising health insurance. In fact, everyone else I know is going backwards and these people are crying and whining for all of our support? Seriously, they need to take a look around and realize they are crying to the wrong people!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 91 23
My son is one of the replacements. He is working two jobs until he is sure he won’t get laid off in a week. They can’t promise anything but they are upfront about the fact that there will be many open positions if the union comes back & they will go to those temporary workers who have proven themselves to be reliable.
Imagine that, giving the job to the best qualified worker regardless of seniority or how much knee time he spent servicing the union rep. What a concept. I’m sure the union is anxious to kill it before such a novel idea catches on.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 94 25
Oh I agree!! Just imagine moving up because you are a hard worker? It’s just such a difficult concept to grasp apparently!! One of the people that I know that took a job there worked there previously under the union and had quit because he couldn’t stand being turned down for jobs because he had been there less time than the schmuck who got the job who didn’t work when he is an outstanding, over the top worker. Now with the union out of there, he is hoping that he can move around the company the way companies intended promotions to be!! Even if the union does come back, in the meantime, he will have received recognition for the great job he does do and it gives him the opportunity to shine amongst all the new people versus the lifers, and just hopefully ACS sticks with their “union busting” policy that they will promote who they see fit and this person will have what he ACTUALLY DESERVES within the company because he is a HARD WORKER!!!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 91 21
So your ‘Friend’ grew tired of having to wait his turn and quit because he is such a ‘Tremendous, Over the Top’ worker that it just wasn’t fair that someone with seniority and ability got the job. Oh Boo Hoo.
And now he is going to go back to work there and figures to shoot right to the top. Why Hell he might be plant manager in a couple weeks.
My big question is this, since he is this so-called ‘Outstanding Over the Top’ worker, what has he been doing since he quit ACS the last time. I would think that he, as you describe him would already be doing something much more glamorous and higher paying than anything at ACS, why there are places around GF that for someone of that caliber he should shoot right to the top, why I would think they would be calling him.
Maybe it is more that you have the facts wrong or maybe your friend just has a ‘Much’ higher opinion of himself than what the truth would bear out.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 14 77
I believe he was referring to people who didn’t have the ability being promoted over someone who did just because of the seniority rule. It doesn’t work that way in the real world, there, Hoss.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 49 12
What an excellent and easy to understand point you make Wilson. This ‘super worker’ should have hired out at a non union job and been running the whole outfit by now. I know I know-they were just being smart asses again. Your point blows them right out of the water Wilson-well done.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 52
the idea of senority is B.S. The best way to hire and advance workers is thru job performance to move up the ladder. senority is the lazy workers way of moving up the ladder and usually does not involve the best worker to be in a specific position when the best performer should have that position.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 50 9
What is the most common name for a non-union shop? Yes, that’s right it is called a MERIT shop. What a novel name.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 50 8
He is a tremendous, over the top worker who should have promoted many times over, but these clown union workers who didn’t do half the work he did, got promoted first because they were there longer which is b.s. He quit to pursue something else where he could move up the ladder; however, with the cost of gas remaining at $3+ a gallon and the cost of everything else rising because of it, it’s not feasible to keep driving everyday burning the money in the tank. He wants to get back to working locally and this was a great opportunity to get in there with the hopes that the union never comes back or is broken at the very least so people can be promoted the PROPER WAY!!
” their 17% raise only covering the increase in healthcare costs”
That is an inaccurate statement on several levels. First, the $2000 bonus is gone, so it isn’t 17% anymore.
Second, even without the $2k, the total compensation increase after considering the worst-possible healthcare costs results in about 1.7% per year increase (for the average employee). This increases to 2.6% per year for the best possible healthcare costs (zero costs).
They aren’t going backwards. If they want to argue that MORE of the profits should go to the workers and that they aren’t going forward FAST enough, then make that argument. But don’t start the argement with statements that are clearly false.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 52 17
Mike, where in your calculations is the loss of the drug benefit? Having to pay $2400 in medical expenses before anything is paid out for medications is going to cost families much more than you’re calculating.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 11 55
It is part of the maximum out-of-pocket medical expenses of $4800. This assumes a family. I think your $2400 would be for a single person. The other loss is from the premium for the insurance.
The positives are the company HSA contribution, the increase in pay and the tax savings from the HSA.
There are good things that come from having to pay for your prescriptons. There is now value to you to find a cheaper solution if one is available. AND, because ACSC has offered a one-time boost in pay above the norm, you are still not sent backwards if there is no other alternative.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 45 9
Wolf; I disagree with you …I earn my pay and I thank my employer for that..not the union..and if you want to go that course, then because of the union; I have lost that pay.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 41 7
Laurel; Where in your calculations have you figured out what you have lost in wages?…I could have paid almost 10 years of deductibles now…this does not make any sense…a five year contract would have cost me $12,000 in deductibles..I have lost $20,000 in wages….this does not make sense.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 45 8
Remember Kassie, the $20,000 you would have earned would have been because of “all” of the previous contracts the union and ACS agreed to in the past.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 42
No, you have lost your pay because of the selfishness of both the union and ASC.
You said that you earn your pay. So are you over paid, under paid, or is it just right for the job that you preform? So you don’t feel that your years of knowledge shouldn’t be worth more than someone just starting out. Or that someone straight out of college with a piece of paper has the “working” knowledge to preform, at the same quality, the job you do. So you should just step aside, because you don’t have that piece of paper.
Isn’t this one of the issue that has the union not liking the contract as it is now?
I worked for UPS in ’97 when the strike happened. We had Ron Carey, the president of the teamsters at the time, mislead the not only the union members but also the American public. But he never lied. So I believe that both sides, ACS and the union, are misleading us.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 12 33
BTW: The company will basically pay for the first $750 (single) $1300 (family) of medical expenses due to their contribution to you HSA.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 4
I did not know a company could contribute to a HSA. That is very interesting. Like everyone I have the option of having one, but until they allow you to roll them over from year to year I am opting out. Too much hassel to make sure you use it by the end of the year.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 22 7
I have had an HSA for the last 3 years, and the selling point is that they do roll over. Stay healthy, earn interest on your HSA funds, and you will have funds for insurance premiums after you retire.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 25 2
Obviously i need to get better acquainted with the HSA rules. Sounds like they have changed. Thanks
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 26 2
An FSA doesn’t roll over and the company can’t contribute to it. An HSA rolls over from year-to-year and isn’t tied to an employer. You need to have a high-deductible health plan to have an HSA. They are tax-free contribution, tax-free growth and tax-free withdrawl.
I’m also funding mine in years with low health costs to prepare for future health costs.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 29 3
yes amazing, imagine replacing someone with 30 years experience because some new hire will work for less, what a novel idea seems all the middle class is facing this…good luck to you all in time…..maybe when it strikes everyone we can apply with the post offices
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 67
Harley, as we have discussed ad nauseum, the union did this to themselves. No victims here. Just very poor choices. Life is cyclical. You win some, you lose some. Now the union stands to lose it all.
Many times during this debate I have brought up the auto or textile industry, yet you or Jeff or Wilson never come back with how my facts are incorrect. Unions are to represent their workers, not their own power structure. If the unions do not change with the times, their entire industry tends to implode and go away. The ignorance of history is unforgivable.
Airlines operate under a different set of labor laws than the rest of the world (airlines are under the Railway Labor Act not the National Labor Relations Act) yet they are one of the most heavily unionized segments of society. As the airline industry fights to find equilibrium (cost vs number of flights, routes,etc) the unions have continually changed. When their carriers were disappearing right and left, they gave back. When their carriers were stable, they made gains. At no time did they try to pretend it was still 1978 and what the union said was how it was going to be.
ACS worker’s union needs to realize that their present stance will result in their demise. No amount of whining over how things “should” be will change that. It is time to deal with how things “are” and work from there.
As I have said before, there are major structural changes affecting the sugar industry that will take place in the next 5-10 years. The union can position itself to take advantage of those changes, or it can get left behind. The choice is the union’s, but trust me, no one is going to picket in the streets or stage an “Occupy ACS” if they make the wrong choice.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 64 16
Flying nurse So tell us What major structural changes in the sugar industry are going to take place? Do you have a crystal ball to tell the future? Would be interested to hear.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 17 45
The farm bill will be drastically altered. its final form will be anyones guess but it will not look like it does now. We are approaching a critical mass of free market types in congress so something has to give. I am not saying good or bad, just that it will change.
The union has repeatedly said that the farmers have not been investing in new machinery. That will have to change. Part of the reason the union is having a fit over the outsourcing issue is these new machines will not only use much less people (think the cotton gin), there is the possiblility of having their operators reclassified into non union positions. The company promised not to lay off anyone and not to reclassify anyone. All new classifications were open to outsourcing. Things will definitely change.
If the price falls out of sugar, the number of factories will be decreased because planters will have no choice but to move to other crops.
Those are off the top of my head. I am sure you could come up with more. Remember Bruce Springstein: Those jobs are going boys and they aint coming back.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 39 9
flying nurse, I have a son who works also for ACS and is blasted as a uneducated worker there and yet holds a DBL engineering major ..he shares with me how unsafe it is there and many people should be dead already…so lets keep hiring your sons to learn from this…
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 43
I guess Harley I would ask what others have: if it is that bad, and that unsafe, why did you work there and why do you want to go back?
I fly for a living. Because of problems in my industry it was safer in 2008 to fly in Iraq than Helicopter EMS in the US. When you say things are unsafe that makes my ears pop up. I learned long ago you have to be alive to get fired for turning down a flight. If I have the slightest incling those million different moving parts are not 110%, I turn around and go back into the house. Heros are for TV, not real life.
if things are as you say I would suggest finding another job. Like I said, you have to be alive to get fired.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 49 8
there have been no explosions under the current workforce. the last explosion was spring 2010 due to drunk union worker at pulp dryer. All know about the random pulp dryer fire, there is no more now than was in the past years.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 46 7
ok lets play the game eldredton, no explosions then ill just add on no fires or theft….your so funny to read, and play such a game here.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 34
I’ve toured the factories. It is a safe place, just gotta watch ur head for low clearance on occasion. If there is a spill that could cause a slippery zone anywhere, it is cleaned up very quickly.. there are many posts of very high number of days with no lost time accidents… provided one not coming in to work drunk.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 47 8
minus the explosions…elderton
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 41
You guys may cheer the demise of Unions. They have many negative qualities. I think you also should be careful what you wish for. Picture our employment landscape minus all that unions have provided for ALL of us.
Power corrupts and unions are no exception. They are also no different than any other powerful institution. The difference is they were put in place to advocate for workers and all of us have benefited.
Without unions, who will protect worker’s rights? The CEOs and shareholders? It used to be that part of how a CEO was judged was by job creation and contribution to the good of all of us. Those days are over, at least for now. CEOs today answer to one God; short term profits.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 37
Unions had there place way back in the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s, but not anymore. Those unions back then where the ones who made laws happen that protected the common worker, now they are just as greedy as everyone else is. The only difference between ACSC and some bank on wall street is, ACSC is a PRIVATE BUSINESS OWNED BY FARMERS, while the banks are publicly owned. So if you don’t like what ACSC is offering go somewhere else and work.
Why would you wish the demise of the farmer? If the farmers in this area go under than this WHOLE AREA WILL GO UNDER! who do you think pumps in the most money in the RRV? If a farmer can’t spend his HARD EARNED money at the Implement dealership then that closes, and those workers cant spend their money at local businesses and that closes and so on….It’s a chain reaction people.
It’s time for people to move on and quit whining about the contract. You were offered a great deal and you didn’t take it (that’s fine), so move on. Don’t sit there and throw yourself a pity party and invite all of the RRV because we don’t care about your party. If you want to cry about your contract go cry to government officials that are rising the cost of health care and other stuff.
Ryan I agree with many of your points, but if there are no unions, then who will advocate for the American worker?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 35
racer x – I was raised that if you want something you have to speak up for YOURSELF and work hard and have knowledge of what you are doing. I feel the union is getting lead on by their representatives and being told a bunch of stuff that is just not true but they believe because they are in the union. This world is a very cruel place and for anyone to survive they have to speak up for themselves and not let someone else do the talking for them. Yes, there are some really hard working people in the union and then there are some others that just eek there way through because they are in the union. So in a nutshell, a person should be their own advocate in the workforce. Like I said before, there are laws and other labor boards that protect the American worker from being treated unfairly, so if someone thinks they are being mistreated you can take that up with the NLRB or talk to a lawyer because they would know your rights.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 39 8
Very true Ryan there are protections…. where did they come from?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 31
Ryan that environment you were raised in was created by the past sacrifice of union organizers and the workers who suffered and died to follow them. Don’t you want to pay your respects? (Wow I sound like a patriot!)
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 33
Ryan how well would you have fared speaking for yourself in the early 1900’s unless you were born with the station to afford it?
racer x, please tell me what advocating the union has done for the american worker in the last decade. Some would construe it as a strangehold on business and a demise to US industry.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 45 7
I agree as I said earlier that the unions have some negatives and yes they can choke business, slow down fluidity. They have however had a great impact on me. As a building contractor in Duluth I can charge $45/hour or more. I have friends who’s companies are billing at $75/ hour. Ok these are small non-union carpenter operations. So, there was a time I was considering going to Florida for the winters to work and chill in the sun. I went down there and checked it out. Florida is a right to work state… no unions. A carpenter with a trailer full of tools and top skills- $15/ hour. No way man. See ya. I came back to Minnesota with a HUGE appreciation for my union Brahs! Could not do it without them!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 39
I am sorry to burst your bubble racer but the past sacrifices were not because of Union workers, they were made from blood sweat and tears my family has endured over the years while FARMING. I have told you time and time again that they have come from the Unions when they were useful 80 YEARS ago.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 37 9
Yes and as has been shown by Mr Walker in Sconie when he took away collective bargaining rights; if you don’t keep fighting for your rights, they will be taken away.
el Berg sí mayor ha sido honorable y trató a mis amigos con las buenas ventajas del respecto y del mucho
I say to my amigos that Senior Berg is honorable man whose company has rewarded us with mucho dinero and how you say perks?
Like or Dislike: 8 12
@ Flying nurse. So your son is one of the ‘Local Scab piece’s of #%#+. If he is so interested in working at ACS tell us why he never applied before since they have been hiring up and down the valley for the last 2-3 years and could barely find enough ‘qualified’ people to fully staff the factories. Is it because it is a Union work place and at ACS you have to have seniority AND ability to advance, not by just giving LIP service to your boss to move up the pole.
You spout off quite a lot even in the paper, gee your name wouldn’t be Paul. If you had any facts correct from actually having worked at ACS you would be believable as it is you are just another hack who has too much time to spend on forums and writing letters to the paper on subjects you know little about.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 16 75
That’s easy Wilson – he was in Afghanistan. What were you doing?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 65 15
Working…. Did my time already.. Vietnam… how about you??
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 17 55
If he was in Afganistan, he should have G.I.Bill for schooling why would he not be enrolled at a University or Community collage
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 23 48
Not all servicemen enlist wanting college in return, but simply to serve.
Not all servicemen sign up for the GI Bill either. While the ROI of the GI bill is better than anything else you can invest in, most people don’t know that there is an automatic monthly withdraw from a soldiers check for the first 12 months.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 44 7
Got the dreaded awaiting moderation reply. have to wait till tomorrow for my answer. To make it short, he has kids. The explanation as to why this is important is under moderation.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 27 11
Wow that was fun! Anybody else want to give me some crap?
Hot debate. What do you think? 13 20
Not me tj. Anyone who can put a complete sentence together is welcome. Even Jeff; although it galls me to say so.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 24 6
I’m going on vacation for a month. I’m going to wish you all a Merry Christmas and give you my silence as a gift. I’m off in search of snow.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 32 0
Take the former union workers with you. They could use the vacation from their 4 month vacation.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 35 7
Be safe and enjoy your time. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 26 3
heard from a connected friend that a concerned grower went down and talked to Berg and he was told basically the grower wasn’t anything and that it was bergs company and to shut his mouth. sounds more like a dictator than a ceo. and I have found out at least 2 of the state certified boiler operators from the Crookston plant are almost as good as gone because of job offers. How many growers are going to stand outside Bergs chain-link surrounded mansion and sing christmas carols?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 30
I heard from a reliable source, who heard it from another impeccable source close to the man the world is due to end on 12/15/2011. Wait, that was yesterday. Damn reliable sources.
Come on Scooter, do not lower yourself to Jeff’s level. Your posts show you are smarter than that. If ACS is a co-op comprised of growers, what sense would it make for the guy hired by the growers to insult a grower?
that does not even rise to the level of urban legend. That is just stupid.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 33 7
f/n, my sources have been very reliable so far. given you are way down south and i am up here, i accept your criticism and skepticism.
as you know in this world, some people just use that way to keep the sheep in line. whether it be small business, or large corporate boardroom it sometimes takes a little bullying to keep them marching straight and proper.
hell, anyone who has done basic military training knows what i am talking about. And from what i have heard of berg,(tapes,tv,ect) he thinks he is the next coming of , well you get the picture.
I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that scooter is really a nice guy and not a rumor monger.
You have to forgive my cynicism. I work in EMS and whenever someone gets too much time on their hands there is always a rumor of gloom and doom (We are going to lose the contract with “X” and they are going to close our base; So and So conglomerate is going to buy us; Everything is being cut back to make us more appealing to sell, etc. etc. etc.). Unless I have independent verification, I usually don’t even believe myself.
Berg may very well be a complete jerk. He very well may have a small male sexual organ and think he is Napoleon. That all may be true, but going head to head with the people who sign his check (remember everyone has a boss) would be stupid, and stupid people are usually weeded out before they earn over $2 million a year.
Your story may be true, but I will wait and see. If he disappears overnight some week soon, I will owe you a beer.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 30 5
Being in EMS, maybe you could answer a question for me that I’ve always wanted to pursue.
Where would one go to get a job cleaning up accidents and crime scenes or hospital trauma rooms and whatnot?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 18 3
believe it or not most highway crash scenes are swept up by the tow truck driver & rinsed into the sewer by the FD.. Ya, the EPA hates it but unless there are hazardous materials involved it is the only practical way.
Hospital trauma rooms are cleaned by the poor old Hispanic ladies that work housekeeping. They are the unsung heroes of any hospital; they work harder than anyone & are often the most dedicated employees on staff.
As for civilian crime scenes, those are usually handled by whomever Owens the property. There are several companies that specialize in that field.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 19 2
f/n i saw how they clean up those crash scenes on the show Wrecked, those guys do a heck of a job doing that in Chicago.
another unsung hero in those hospitals are the nuns and other religious types that go there to help any and all they see.
my previous response has been termed waiting on moderation. my guess you can read it by Jan. 1, 2020.
Like or Dislike: 15 1
I worked in a big city Level 1 trauma center for way too long. You are absolutely correct about social work and pastoral care. They helped the families so I could help the patient. My job would have been darn near impossible without them.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 16 1
F/n am I going soft or are agreeing on somthing for once?
Must be the season. If Jeff comes up with a valid point I will know Santa Claus is real
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 18 1
WHOA! WHOA! WHOA, there! Throttle back a bit. Let’s not get crazy. He’s all union and that makes everything he says invalid.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 21 3
watch out dead, jeff may start believing in you
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 17 2
That Berg sounds like a pretty mean fella. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It appears Berg and his minions are driving our good friends and neighbors out of town. Too bad. Real salt of the earth kinda folks-not some empty suits getting their orders from corporate America.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 37
Wilson; you are obviously upset about people replacing you in your job; so much so that you feel it necessary to resort to name calling…These new employees DID NOT take your job…You willfully gave it up for grabs by your vote twice….you state seniority and ability to advance…You then should not have a problem with the contract…ABILITY being the key word here….I did work at Crystal and will remain LOYAL to a company that has treated me well for twenty years…I would suspect that you will remain loyal to your union…So quit with the pity me attitude….the way you trash the company and continue to say how bad you had it, one has to wonder why you would want to go back; or why it upsets you someone else is working there.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 75 16
Like the ‘flyingnurse’…..’kassie’ you are the pinnacle of COMMON SENSE!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 53 13
I must have missed where I talked about how bad I had it and where I trashed the company or maybe you read it in your mind. Problem with contract is trusting a company to use ‘ability only’ in many instance’s also uses as# kisser as well.
As for using seniority plus ability to advance I haven’t quite figured out why many are against the simple concept as that is how the House of Representative’s and the Senate operate. The same with many top companies, you don’t get to be the CEO just because you work hard. I am sure there are extremely smart people coming out of college each year but they start at the bottom of a company and through seniority and hard work they move up the ladder.
You state you worked for ACS for 20 years, why did you leave since they treated you so well.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 15 56
Wilson; I did not leave, the union vote locked me out also
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 59 11
I take it that you are in total agreement with the contract offered and would go back now if able?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 12 43
Wilson, you seem to be someone who has some time in being employed by ACSC. Can you or anyone for that matter tell me what Western Minnesota Labor Council does, of which Mr. Froemke is the president of, and why the local gave this Council nearly $6000 last year?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 50 7
Wilson: using the House of Representatives and the Senate as examples of well run corporations is probably not helping your cause very much. They are examples of WHY seniority only is a very bad idea.
Racist Southern Senators held up Civil Rights reforms for over 100 years. North Dakota is prosperous not only because we have an oil field, but because our congressional delegation managed to stay alive long enough to look after us.
Now that we have a bunch of new kids on the block with very limited power (even someone as popular as Hoeven has a very limited ability to affect change if the old guard does not cooperate) we had better pray there is not another Base Closure Commission anytime in the next decade. Not to mention expensive flood planning and mitigation.
There are advantages and disadvantages to the seniority system. When seniority trumps a fair testing and ability process (in the military I am sure you remember you have to test for your rank) things go down hill – quickly.
That said, I am on management’s side in this fight because as a small business owner in the past, the thought of someone other than me deciding who does what when I signed the checks is laughable. I have nothing but contempt for a generation of ACS managers who signed such ridiculous contracts.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 48 8
FN-please explain how your statement “(even someone as popular as Hoeven has a very limited ability to affect change if the old guard does not cooperate) affects the working man and woman. Just who are the ‘old guard’? What do you think the ‘old guards’ opinion of American workers is? Answer these questions and you might understand the ‘class warfare’ issues of today.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 54
Jeff: What are you talking about? We were discussing the seniority system in congress. What point are you trying to make? Be clear man, be clear.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 44 6
flyingnurse..Using the House and Senate was only an example of the seniority systems we have in and around the country, others are ACS bosses themselves, Dave Berg did not walk into ACS fresh from college and given the CEO job, he like many others started at the bottom and worked his way up, same applies to many jobs where they list you have to be 18-21 with 5-10 or more years experience. The Union positions are no different when it comes to seniority and ability to do the job. The only jobs there that you can walk into are jobs requiring a license to operate, journey man electrician, boiler operator, both of which require you to put in time starting at the bottom and work your way up, seniority and ability again.
Back to our elected officials, the new blood does have a tough time getting things done or it seems that way maybe. But look at it this way you may not like it , I may not like it, but someone does and that may very well be a wealthy donor, a business contact, a golf buddy etc. They are doing things for a few not always for the many.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 33
“But look at it this way you may not like it , I may not like it, but someone does and that may very well be a wealthy donor, a business contact, a golf buddy etc. They are doing things for a few not always for the man”
No disagreement from me there. The reason most incumbents are re-elected is they make the rules and stack the deck in their favor. When they get some seniority they then can point to the pork they brought back to the home district. It is a self perpetuating cycle designed to make sure the prevailing power structure survives.
Seniority is good and bad. You say it keeps the bottom kissers from advancing because of the amount of knee time they spend in front of the boss, and I am sure that in some instances that is true. I say that simply breathing and not getting fired is not a reason to get the job over someone else.
Meritocracies are not very much in favor in this country (“they are unfair” “not everyone has the same advantages” etc) but I believe in them. The world is not fair. I despise discrimination based on anything other than ability.
The fact that some people come from a better gene pool and have had the benefit of never having gone hungry, never had a parent who was a drunk and a louse, was loved, and went to the best schools is not a reason to hold them back because someone else did not have those advantages.
Even Einstein had to work his ass off and Thomas Edison screwed up 1000X more than he succeeded. Work ethic and talent should play the major role in deciding who gets what, not breathing in place.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 37 8
flyingnurse…..I agree that seniority is both good and bad. Using a strictly seniority basis for job promotion is not always right unless the person being promoted is the most senior of a few in the same field ie:electricians in a shop etc.
At ACS the past contracts have been for years seniority AND ability, NOT strictly seniority. The job description is spelled out very clear on what is required, if you don’t meet the requirements for the job your app is thrown out, if awarded the job the person is in a trail period of varying time limits and must prove during the trial period the ability to successfully perform the job, they are only permanently awarded the job with the eval of their foreman AND mgt Supervisor. The test of ONLY being able to breath has never applied.
If you or anyone has been led to believe different by those who have NEVER worked at ACS or HAVE worked there for a short time and left due to feeling they were owed a promotion because they were hard working or were fired for who knows, well you have been mislead.
You are also correct that life is not fair. I would hope that anyone who works at any job who feels because after 2 weeks or two months of hard work they deserve to be promoted over someone who has worked hard for 2 years or 10 years, hopefully they will remember that.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 16
Because he’s like a 6 year old having a tantrum. If they don’t play his way he’s hoping that by taking his toys and going home that ACS won’t be able to play.. Problem is that ACS had other friends who had toys as well and were able to get along without him.
One of my old HR directors told me once that at a job you are only given so many poker chips to play during the course of your career. He also told me to never go in unless I had a Royal Flush, otherwise I would straight flushed down the toilet. Those words have proven me well in my lifetime, and in many many situations.
The Union thought their Aces full was a good hand, unfortunately the boss always has at least a straight flush.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 64 11
Yup-the slaves always had rotten hands to play-good thing we had that Civil War or they would still be getting rotten hands-funny how that works-depends who’s dealing don’t it?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 60
You’re not going to go there….are you Jeff? If you are, then in addition to recognizing the “rotten hand” the ACS employees are/were holding here, you also need to recognize and acknowledge their role in the holding of that that hand. It’s been said about a bazillion times already, but you may have (intentionally) missed it.
Who is responsible for the amount of skill/education/experience a prospective employee may have? If that amount of skill/education/experience *pigeon-holes* an individual into an earning category, then what hand have they been dealt….and who has dealt it?
Apparently you buy into the notion that the employee has no options other than to “union-up” in order to be compensated in a manner they feel comfortable with. When you mentioned slavery, I had to step away from the keyboard for a bit to cool off. Your line of *thinking* is starting to sink in, so I may not bother to reply to whatever nonsense you spew forth next. Bear in mind that I said it’s starting to sink in….NOT that it makes any sense.
You weren’t consulted when it came time to draft the union-generated propaganda fliers…..were you? Perhaps they ought to consider adding you as a contributing editor. John Q. Public would certainly benefit from the education you could provide. For instance, it never occurred to me until your last post that parallels could be drawn between slavery, the Civil War….and the lock-out situation.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 55 9
Not the first time Jeff has menitioned the slave thing.
Funny how the locked out workers can sit out side a factory and spew racial slurs but the workers who are/were working there by choice are slaves? How obtuse can one man be?
All your bad Karma will come home to roost.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 33 9
Wilson; Yes, I would love to be able to go back to work…do I wish my insurance could stay the way it was..of course…that just is not going to happen and I can accept that….I have lost almost $20,000 in wages…I will never recover that…this is not working for any of the employees…I just hope this will come to an end soon, but I doubt it will.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 60 5
I figure as long as the union nuts dont want to do anything nothing will get done.. only way is enough smart ones among the union can vote the union out to get this over with… but it seems smart isn’t in the union handbook anywhere. just the work whine and talk good workers down.
I’m afraid most of the smart ones have moved on. That is what is going to hurt ACSC the most. The best and the brightest have found new employment and won’t be coming back.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 53 4
There are more good ones out there to fill the positions, the good ones that found other jobs did so due to a stuck up union and most likely fed up with the union by now and prob never want to be part of a union again because of this.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 50 10
What did ACS expect to happen after locking out their workers???? Some will find better jobs-usually the best and brightest. Good thing ACS has this big labor pool to draw from-whoops-looks like its not so big and ACS ain’t that great of an employer now.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 35
I believe ACSC actually were hoping that the lockout would have encouraged the union to negotiate a new contract. Go figure, they didn’t anticipate that the union really wanted an extended vacation.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 36 9
Jeff…..Are you getting paid from this website to spew this ignorance just to get people to log into the website?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 25 6
All of us would like to go back to work….. And there are things in the contract that may or may not affect everyone. A campaign worker who gets basically zero health care doesn’t care what the health care plan is. Many of us remember Brian Ingy stating a couple years that with Obama care that NO campaign worker would have health ins., that ACS would pay the fines first. Campaign workers get little vacation time so that may not be as important. Everyone has to look at and use their own judgement at what ACS is offering and the previous actions of ACS towards the employees. If the employee feels that ACS is straight forward and always open and honest in ALL the dealings in the past, then they will probably want to sign right now. But as with any contract once you sign you can’t renegotiate in a year or two because now you don’t like it.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 12 32
If a person wanted to get employment at ACS now, where would they go to get an application for employment? The HR department? Is there somewhere online to apply?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 36 8
Thanks flying nurse…lots of opportunities available!
I don’t believe you actually had to ask that question.
Like or Dislike: 6 11
Someone who asks such a question likely isn’t the super worker that ACS is looking for-the worker who is so good they will run the company in a year. If you work real hard you can do it-vote republican……
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 16
Here is another fun fact for the loyal union members to think over…
At the end of the lockout in Keokuk the final signing of the contract has delayed for a week. The reason was Mr. Bertilli WAS ON VACATION! You just have to love the irony of that.
The union members claim the company is out to get them and whatever other garbage they can come up with, all the while the union rep screws them out of a weeks pay because he is sitting on a beach sipping mi ties and playing yahtzee ON THE LOCKED OUT WORKERS DIME!!!!
Not to mention the pay freezes and pay cuts he won for them there.
And now with all the bad talk about ACSC taking money away from the workers, these guys standing out in a ditch cannot see the only people taking money out of their pockets pretend to be on their side! AND THEY BELIEVE IT!
The new union motto should be “Trust me with your life, but not your money or your wife”.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 63 15
Was Berg sitting next to him drinking those fancy drinks?
Darn I was trying to be the 100th person to comment but I guess I’ll have to be 102. Have a great day everyone and have a verry merry Christmas.
after talking with a grower, and listening to what he had to say, i was totally displeased with what was said. it basically came down to him saying Screw the locked out workers, and when i asked if he started from nothing or if he inherited it, he told me to eat crap, my family is rich and you don’t count.
So with his inspiration i decided to make a top ten of “YOU MIGHT BE A BEET FARMER IF…”
SO HERE IT GOES:
#10 You might be a beet farmer if, you consider your pickup old if its a 2009.
#9 You might be a beet farmer if, you have Berg or his cronies on speed dial.
#8 You might be a beet farmer if, your tractor is newer than your non-farming neighbors car is.
#7 You might be a beet farmer if, you trade your wife’s vehicle in before either the warranty runs out or it needs new tires.
#6 You might be a beet farmer if, your subsidy check is more than your hired man makes in 3 years.
#5 You might be a beet farmer if, you don’t give to charity out of fear some of the money will end up with the locked out workers.
#4 You might be a beet farmer if, you think David Berg is the Messiah.
#3 You might be a beet farmer if, you sit in the local cafe during the winter, complaining about how the weather was bad while you were vacationing in the Bahamas.
#2 You might be a beet farmer if,you thumbs downed this list.
#1 You might be a beet farmer if, you don’t give a crap what happens to the locked out workers, as long as you get your beet payment.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 9 65
The farmers have nothing to do with this. This is one more example of how truly uneducated and uninformed the union really is. Do you read the same material that the rest of us read or do you just go by what your union leaders tell you and then spew nonsense all over the place as if you know what you are talking about. Lots of companies sell stock, and the shareholders benefit and sometimes lose. Do you think if any other company were to lock their employees out, that you could send letters out to the shareholders to do anything about it? My family owns stock in Polaris, but does that mean we have any say as to what the company does or says? Seriously, get a grip and get your facts straight before spewing untruths. Would you people please open your eyes to the fact that the farmers can DO NOTHING FOR YOU!! They own shares in the company and that’s the extent of it!! They do not run the place, they do not oversee the place, they bring their beets in, attend shareholder meetings, and collect their check….just like any other shareholder of any other company!!!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 53 10
inmyhonestopinion….You are wrong on this. ACS is NOT a company like a public traded company, they are a CO OP. They elect a Board of Directors from among the grower/owners. The mgt team of Berg,Talley etc are all approved by the Board. If there are Capitol improvements to be made, they have to be approved by the Board. each and every grower/owner had knowledge of what was going on.
Although you are correct in one thing, some of the growers do nothing but attend meeting and wait for check.
Hot debate. What do you think? 27 32
This is going to call for a celebration, I actually agree with part of what Wilson has to say. It is a CO-OP and we do have a B.O.D. which represents the growers. The growers do have input on the direction of the company and how the company handles it business including this lockout. The growers have supported management and continue to support management on this decision.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 53 8
george…..The growers support management on this decision.
ALL parts or just some parts.
Support management in saying the union is a tumor to cut out?
Support management in the plan to bring in the replacements at least 2 years ago?
Support management in the plan to spend dollars to save pennies?
Support management in the plan to punish the communities that you yourselves also live in?
Just wondering which ones the growers support
And no reason to plan a celebration, I think the growers had that with management a couple weeks ago.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 46
-Berg said the CONTRACT has grown like a tumor over the years. Listen to the whole recorded audio clip, he makes a point to say that he is not comparing the workers nor the union itself to a tumor. Was it a bad analogy? Yes. Don’t turn it into something it is not. I know you’ll downplay this, but attending the annual meeting along with factory district meetings over the years, mgmt always makes it a point to praise the work done in the factory. Your are and were appreciated.
-The plan was to have a back-up in case the union did not accept. Forgive me, I do not know the name, but a Nebraska sugar company was in the same situation a year ago. The union promised to not strike, but guess what, they did!! Both you and I know the union would have had all of the power to bring the company to its knees. Even not striking, the union would still have the power to slow production enough to force a deal.
-This is an expensive ordeal but having control of ones own destiny is going to allow ACS to be profitable into the future. My farm has had to adapt to changes along with the rest of the working world, work with ACS instead to adapt together. It is in both our best interests. Do you choose your own electrician to work at your home? Well, you should not have that right because they have all passed the required tests. Because of that fact, one electrician should not be more qualified than the next right???? Someone else will make your electrician choice for you but, you are responsible for the bill!!
-Your union continues to punish these communities just as much as ACS does. Your union has not contacted the federal mediator about returning to the negotiating table since July 31. The mediator requested the meeting in Oct due to the union comments in the media. Took a rather long time to here from Mark Froemke again didn’t it? It doesn’t matter what is said around our communities, Riskey and Bertelli are the negotiators and they decide when to return to the table.
Yes, it was a nice celebration for a sucessful year and to take a look at a not so certain future. You really don’t think $71/ton beets are here to stay do you? Remeber, it wasn’t very long ago there were $40/ton beets with the union in the factories. A person with a basic understanding of economics and markets knows what goes up will come down.
Both sides have stories that we believe are propaganda. I challenge you to look at the FACTS released by each side. The NLRB states that ACS made significant movements before the lockout occured and the union offered no counter offers or concesions. A negotiation is when two sides come together and reach an agreement. The NLRB is a third party with no ties to this, it is a fact. Have any of you heard from Bertelli? You know, the guy from not around here who is suppose to be working on getting this solved on your behalf.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 61 9
What about when there was $28 ton beets and looking at auction sales all over the place and beet stock at $800 ac. because farmers couldn’t pay the interest on their loans. It was within the past 12 years.
Like or Dislike: 11 2
That’s some good stuff there Scooter. Indulge me for a second and walk me through the process:
Step 1: You talked to someone about a topic and probably asked some questions.
Step 2: You heard stuff you didn’t want to hear. (shudder!)
Step 3: You pitched a fit BECAUSE you heard something you didn’t want to hear.
Step 4: You posted some anger-laden nonsense on a message board.
I can only imagine what the next step will be. An offer to to “step up” to a union leadership position perhaps? You seem to be qualified. Congrats.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 52 9
Scott, thanks for the compliment. and now to reply to your steps.
#1 Was chewing the fat with a beet grower who i have known for years.
#2 I was listening to what he had to say, but then he jumped on this I am holier than thou attitude.(he was basically throwing his family name at me, like it meant somthing)
#3 No fit was pitched and i just asked as i was leaving in a calm voice if he inherited or started from scratch.
#4 No anger, just satirical observations. if it got your panties in a bunch, take a chill pill. and you take life too seriously.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 15 31
Wrong again, one of the white vacuum pans was blown up early on in this mess. An employee from Sydney Sugars that was forced to come to EGF and operate the pan floor left after being told to run the pan in an unsafe manner by management. As he was leaving the factory he stopped and told the people on the picket line about it. Approximately 45 minutes after he left the colandria exploded and they were lucky no one was killed. This was confirmed by a contractor.
Regarding the story about an employee being drunk causing the steam dryer explosion that is also false. After a power disruption the employees were doing the right thing by keeping the vessel closed up when a management employee ordered them to open it. This gave the hot pulp the oxygen it needed to cause the explosion.
Try using facts for a change.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 13 41
Management fired the two employees involved and the manager that told them what to do kept his job. The manager had a character flaw…he didn’t know how to tell the truth. The gutless wonder was close to retiring and has since done so. Not all the stories your management buddies tell you are true.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 11 33
Don’t believe the truth you guys….it might make you look like a bunch of jerks!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 9 34
Wilson: to steer the conversation slightly off topic. Did you see the bit in the paper about WalMart being the 3 largest employer on the PLANET behind the US Department of Defense & The People’s Liberation Army? Believe it or not I find this fact extremely depressing. We could do a whole thread on McJobs & the societal effects of big box stores.
I find it depressing but also very motivating. I cannot tell you how many times I use WalMart & Sam’s as object lessons: go t o school or prepare for a life of low wage slavery. It is your choice.
I can’t remember which frequent contributor on another thread was downplaying the necessity of an education. I kept hoping he was gay or sterile.
Every child wants to be a rock star or athlete, but how many actually pull it off? For “normal” people the only way to avoid death at $10 an hour is getting a trade or education. Even the n there are no guarantees.
The only guarantee is that without a trade or an education you will never come close to the middle class lifestyle your parents had.
Many during this discussion have said the demise of unions = the demise of the middle class. The middle class still exists, you just need at least a bachelors & probably a masters to get in.
My father got by working 2 jobs with an 8 grade education (he was 40 when he got his GED because the Air Force said get it or get out).
Some in my generation did just fine working for a defense contractor or other manufacturing type job with nothing more than a HS diploma, but those jobs are long gone.
The chance of our kids owning squat without an education or trade is nil. All of Jeff’s lunatic raving about class warfare will be 1/2 true. Just look at Detroit. Sign me up; I’d love to raise a family there.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 41 4
Jeff, have you actually listened to the auido clip of Berg? He states clearly that he is not comparing the workers nor the union itself to a tumor. Example of the union firing the troops up to keep them made and to give them someone to hate. Straight out of the Unoin for Dummies handbook. Last update, 1950
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 36 7
“Unoin for Dummies “-You said it perfectly George….
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 27
If I was a highly skilled worker and my employer locked me out of my job and called me a tumor I just might looks elsw where for greener pastures too. Good luck to all ACS workers who were able to break away from this heartless greedy corporation. May God bless you and have a Merry Christmas.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 11 46
Thanks Jeff…back at you. The one thing that I am thankful for this holiday season is that we are Minnesotans. Our state has been great through this ordeal. Shame on you North Dakota.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 39
Everybody knows that Minnesota is one of the largest welfare states.
And North Dakota is a dark dank backwards he!! hole.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 32
tj… North Dakota is not a “welfare state” where a person decides not to work for a living anymore and expects everybody else in the state to pay for their “laziness”.
Or it could be said that Minnesota supports workers and their rights. I prefer that over ND. That is why I live, work, and play in this great state.
Say whatever you like about North Dakota tj, I still love living here.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 32 6
Well I’m happy for you gussy. We should all be able to live in the place we want to live in and support what we believe in. Life would be dull if everybody shared the same opinions. It’s the holidays…be happy…put a little brandy in the eggnog.
Hot debate. What do you think? 19 17
tj…..I am so happy for you that you are from Minnesota…I just love paying my state taxes to make sure you have a great Christmas! I am actually embarassed to admit that I am from Minnesota, that a person can decide not work anymore and expect a check from the working people of Minnesota!!!!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 38 9
We are working to and paying taxes. There is life after ACSC. I never worked at the sugar factory…my spouse did as a journeymen steamfitter. He got a job right away with the intention of never going back. I just log on to give you guys crap and to have some fun. I’m waiting for snow and the ice to thicken so I can go ice fishing up at Lake of the Woods in beautiful Northern Minnesota, a vast improvement over the cess pool ND is.
Jeff…so are you saying the remaining locked out workers are not highly skilled workers because they have not moved on to greener pastures? Do you think that maybe it is possible that there aren’t any “greener pastures” in the area? I am sure they are very skilled at what they do at processing beets, but the only beet processing facilities in the area are ACS factories. I believe that if all the locked out workers went to greener pastures it would be good for everyone, and there wouldn’t be any more whining about this.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 33 6
Oh please you have no idea how many employees have left the company and ACSC doesn’t either. Tell me this do you see mass mobs on the picket lines or a couple of people? There is a great life after ACSC…many people have already found that out. You are dreaming if you think they are all waiting to get back in. The door is wide open for you and your pals to get a job there and you are more than welcome to them. Get in line and go to work.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 24 9
tj…so if there is this “great life” after ACS….what is all this BS about? If the union employees aren’t waiting to get back in to go to work and their options are so great elsewhere, why are we talking about this anymore? I think the union employees deserve much better than ACS is willing to offer, so I am totally supporting them to work elsewhere.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 30 7
I would like to wish a Merry Christmas to the small percentage of the union employees that wanted to go back to work. I would suspect you never thought that when you signed up for a union position that this kind of stupidity could possibly happen to you. I understand that all you wanted is a career that if you worked hard that you could advance in the company because of your work ethic and not how long you have been “collecting a paycheck”.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 37 6
I lot of yap and a little bit of crap…
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 24
Dead I saw your new avatar. It is creepy…I got the chills. Please find a better one.
Like or Dislike: 10 18
If you like that, go to my daily update and click on the link. The death clock tells you how long you personally have to live based on BMI and lifestyle habits.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 22 5
I thought that thing was a monkey…it looks a lot better as a skull…I get it now. And apparently I have more time ahead of me then I thought. What am I going to do with all that time?
Like or Dislike: 15 9
Mexican Union of Electricity – They do the protesting American unions won’t do.
Like or Dislike: 13 6
Does it seem right that CEO Berg gets almost all the bags of presents in Santa’s Sleigh? C’mon man-spread it around a little-you growers too-stingy and greedy don’t look good on you. Think about those workers you locked out when your eating that big turkey supper. Mercy on your soul….
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 40
Jeff I had really hoped you had moved beyond the victim card. The argument does not work. What Berg gets under the tree has nothing to do with the coal in your stocking.
Berg & ACS are not Scrooge & you are not Bob Cratchet or Tiny Tim. There are no victims in this debate; oneithervside, only choices.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 35 8
CEO Berg can take his 2.5 million dollars and use it as stuffing in his pillow for all I care.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 18
Remember Jeff, you are an EMPLOYEE in a PRIVATELY OWNED COMPANY, you are not entitled to any profits or anything like that. You get paid well in return for your work, you also get a nice benefit package too. The farmers have decided to pay Berg what they think is right because he gets the most money out of their product. You on the other hand have no risk involved in your job, you show up and work for 12 hours and go home, that’s it. While the Farmer invests MILLIONS of dollars into HIS COMPANY (aka THE FARM/ACSC). Like I have said before, if you feel you are getting underpaid and the conditions at ACSC are awful, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Throwing yourself a pity party is not going to do you any good and sitting here spewing out stupid nonsense won’t help your case any either.
That is where you are wrong. Jeff is entitled to anything he wants. He doesn’t have to work for it, just want it. If he doesn’t get what he wants, he’ll cry long and loud about greed, republicans, and other name-calling (the true sign of defeat). If that doesn’t work, he’ll break out the markers and poster board. We all know how this story goes, but Jeff needs to know that no one cares. People are busy with their own lives, and simply don’t care.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 24 4
Let’s look at reality Jeff. Do I believe as a farmer that Berg deserves that much money for a job. NO, I don’t believe anyone is worth that, but you have to pay what the market says he is worth. Does it make sense to you that we pay him less than the rest of the CEOs for our size of business and have him go to another company our size willing to pay him that.
That doesn’t make sense to let him go and then turn around and pay another guy what we currently pay Berg to do the job he already does. I guess in your mind, we should just get a new CEO and start out with someone new.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 6
So there’s twelve cookies, a CEO, a Tea Party guy and a Union guy. The CEO takes eleven cookies and leans over and tells the Tea Party guy to watch out because the Union guy is going to try steal his cookie.
And that pretty much sums up economics in todays America. I got a problem with that.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 5 40
How about baking your own cookies?
Wait, that would mean investing in the equipment, buying a stove, mixer, fridge, pots, pans etc. You would also need to purchase supplies and have utility services as well. If you wanted to bake a lot of cookies you would most likely need to hire bakers, some marketing people, delivery drivers, accountants and so forth.
Yes, it’s much easier to just show up and expect to be fed.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 39 6
I’ll buy them as soon as I get my subside check….Or welfare check-Of course I should have to take a urine test for getting free money from the taxpayers.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 5 29
I think everyone getting unemployment checks should have to take an urine test before getting free money from taxpayers.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 32 4
Gosh Jeff, I had you pegged all wrong. I had no idea we had an Economics Professor along for this ride. Perhaps you’d like to explain where the twelve cookies in your scenario came from, and then…..describe how you’d like to see them “divvied up” in Utopia.
After your “Professor Jeff’s Guide to Simple Economics” lecture, by all means open things up for questions and discussion.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 39 5
Jeff: the problem with being a one trick pony and playing the victim card all the time is people stop taking you seriously (the blogger who cried wolf). One of these times you are going to have something legitimate and profound to say but it will get missed because everyone will just see your name, hit thumbs down, and move on.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 37 7
And don’t think I don’t appreciate your concern about my welfare FN……Merry Christmas
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 5 31
Here is what I have a problem with Jeff. Someone (me, farmer’s…etc) who invests their time and money to become prosperous, while someone like you just eeks their way along with no risk but wants a high reward.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 43 6
tj, well it is the Christmas season, you know. This is the time for giving.
I’m giving the company and the grower/operators crap for Christmas…lots and lots of crap. I don’t work there so I can say whatever I want to as long as I tell the truth. It’s a great stress reliever and a blast.
I’m giving the Senators on the ag committees e-mails asking them not to fund the sugar program since they all did so well this year. Satisfaction is the gift that keeps on giving.
Union employees receiving unemployment is a temporary situation unlike the highly taxpayer funded farm programs. Why are they so special?
Do we help out a cafe owner when business is slow or he is losing money? How about the grocery store? Or the hardware store? Make them compete in a global market like everybody else does. We have out sourced so many other jobs. Why not farming?
The lack of support the community has shown the locked out workers is one reason why I buy almost everything on line now. I love free shipping to.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 29
I heard those Mexican farmers work real cheap-probably 10 percent of what the American farmers are getting now-think how much your grocery bill would go down.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 4 33
Guess Jeff thinks Nothing should have that MADE IN AMERICA stamp. Think jeff’s job should be outsourced to pakistan.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 25 4
It’s your boys who are doing all the outsourcing. Just like Bush did the bail outs. Remember Henry Paulson? You guys sure have short memories. Now you trying to blame everything on the black guy.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 20
my amigos workers in sugar company have good chance of being forever workers till retirement. We have been there longest since July
mis trabajadores de los amigos en compañía del azúcar tienen buena ocasión de ser por siempre trabajadores hasta el retiro. Hemos estado allí el más largo desde julio
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 9 21
Feliz Navidad, senor Martinez! North Dakota is now Little Mexico of the united states and I couldn’t be any happier unless the former union workers go out and pick the beets by hand.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 11
Im starting to think some people are against unions. call it just a guess.
As I have stated publicly many times, I am not anti union. I am anti-stupid. Unions did and do have a place in our workforce, but when they stop representing the people that comprise them, and start working for themselves, I have no sympathy for whatever evil befalls them.
ACS union’s leaders misjudged not only the economic climate but popular support. When they were given a chance to reverse course, cut a deal, and get their people back to work (under terms most anyone in the area would kill for) their hubris prevented it. Now they are looking at the very real possibility of not having any workers to represent. The trouble with “going all in” is if you lose, you are no longer part of the game.
The union went all in and now they are complaining about having been removed from the game. Go big or go home is a great bumper sticker, but a very stupid way to run a business.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 28 9
“Political Climate” has nothing to do with how much abuse you will give in to. Good thing George Washington didn’t think that way or we would all still be speaking British. Good day sir…..
Jeff you are priceless. Ignorant as a rock, but priceless.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 33 5
Scooter, yes you are correct about grower-union member. He went with his tape recorder and Berg gave him a kiss, a size 10 up his backside and had security escort the guy off the premises minus his tape record’s cutesy tape. This is something that was heard on the streets of Crookson. If it’s good enough for the Crokkston daily Times editor, it’s good enough for here.
Fying Nurse. It’s heartening to see the union likes to recycle. In fact I see so much of their recycled letters coming back for another round. Bonnie Holter’s letter: “Company’s harsh tactics leave bitter taste”, is a blast to the past in that it’s appeared under different names in all sorts of local papers. Some back in September. They need a new writer and better form letters for their membership to send out.
Bottom line in all this is that ACSC is the employer and the union is/was the employee. I was raised to believe that the employer has the right to do whatever they chose to do in the legal sense. Can someone tell me where the employee can tell the employer what they expect/demand for benefits, senority, etc? Get a life people, either take whats offered and move on.
I sure would not hire these same people back to have trashed talk about the company either verbally or by some other actions they chose to perform. I could not trust these people to do the job adequately.
Also, can someone from the union please tell me where a person goes to get educated in processing the sugar beets? I must have missed that when I was growing up here in the valley. Its a job and people learn how to do the job by being on the job.
Who has more at risk here when looking at the bottom line? The union worker or the grower? I believe its the grower as they do not know what the payment for their crop is year after year. The union worker is almost guaranteed to know what they are going to make year and year out. In fact, I would bet its a little more each year with pay and the benefits. Sure the grower is making some money now but what about next year or even in five years? Its time for the union to wake up and smell the coffee.
Its also no wonder that the American workforce is only less than 10% involved in unions. I wonder why?
Granted the publishing of the salaries of Mr Berg and others was not in the best interest to the union but what about the salaries of other executives and their employees like BCBS, Altru, Sanford, UND, NDSU or any other big name company?
Again, the bottome line is ACSC is the employer and the union is the employee. Take it or leave it!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 40 7
Well said Haywood. Well said
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 29 6
“I was raised to believe that the employer has the right to do whatever they chose to do in the legal sense.”
What a shame-It’s people like you that gave reason for the birth of Unions. 8 hour days-weekends-medical benefits all would lost without Unions. What a sorry country we would have if you had your way.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 40
Jeff: I agree the labor movement was needed and did many worthwhile things during the late 19th and early 20th century. No one with access to the History Channel would deny that.
We are 100 years out from that. Indentured servitude has gone the way of the Dodo Bird. Do I trust my government or my employer to do the right thing? Not usually, but there is a difference between then and now.
The reforms they fought for then were health and safety and concerns about a living wage. Now you want a predetermined share of the profits (review how many times in the last 4 months you have brought up how much Berg and the other ACS stakeholders earn) and that is inappropriate.
You do not get a raise because they do. We have went over that ad nauseum. You are not entitled to a share of their profits. They are THEIR profits, not yours. If you want a share of a company’s profits, you buy stock. If that company is not publicly traded, you don’t get to partake. It really is that simple.
If you were fighting for something other than the status quo in a changing world, I might be on your side. Fighting for a time that is long past is counterproductive. The days of closed shops and union stewards who have a veto are long gone.
A union should represent its people, not itself. There are many ACS workers on here touting their 25-30 year history with the company. They have a vested interest in things staying the same. I want to hear from a 2-5 year employee who wants a job in another 10 years. No union contract can guarantee that (I would refer you AGAIN to the multitude of United Auto Worker’s contracts before that entire sector of the economy imploded).
If the union really wants to support its people, it would be looking 5-10 years down the road and demanding they receive the training that will allow them to compete after the boilers are all computerized (ever watch Modern Marvels) and the only humans in the shop are minimum wage monkeys loading the conveyer belts and college educated engineers running the machinery.
Again in the words of Bruce Springstein: Those jobs are going boys and they aren’t coming back.
It’s quite simple… If you like your job and think pay and benifits are good you stay there. If you don’t like the job or think it doesn’t pay or give enough.. Go find another job somewhere else.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 34 6
Hm sure would like to hear the stories of who did thumbs down? is it a horrible job that pays so well u don’t want to leave? or is it you stay because u don’t have to do drug testing?
Breaking News: The Pity Train has just derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up & Move On & crashed into the We All Have Problems before coming to a complete stop at Get The H*^% Over It. Any complaints about how we operate can be forwarded to 1-800-wha-aaah with Dr. Snivel.
fn, if he (Berg) has a small organ, it would be hard for him to go head to head.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 4 24
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