Casino ruling means challenge ahead for Duluth
November 26, 2011 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
If a ruling handed down by a district court Monday stands, the Fond du Lac Band of Lake Superior Chippewa will be able to keep about $6 million a year in casino revenues it had been paying to the city of Duluth.
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I can live with or without a casino in Duluth. I chose not to gamble the fruits of my labors, others have a differing view.
What I would really like to know is where did the all of the money the city received form the casino agreement go?
DNT, do an investigative article reporting all of the revenues the city received over the last 25 years and how were those monies spent. This will show whether Duluth can live with or without it. We deserve to know, WHERE DID THE MONEY GO?
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Here’s a breakdown of how most of it has been spent through the years.
http://www.northlandsnewscenter.com/home/High-Stakes-Battle-Part-Three-134435948.html
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It’s a shame that Chairwoman Diver seems willing to increase the tensions that already exist between the citizens of Duluth and band members.
It’s a good thing the reservation has it’s own police force and fire dept though, just in case the city decides to make reservation property off-limits to the Duluth police and fire departments.
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Diver Comments, regarding fire and police protection… “… there is a school of thought that the $80 million or so we’ve already paid the city should more than cover the tab.”
That is a clever, but sad, rejoinder from Karen. Given the amount of blood a casino sucks from the heart of a city, and the amount of cash that turns into for it direct beneficiary (which is not the city) I would say the casino owes Duluth and it citizens much, much more than what has already been paid.
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Is the City of Duluth seriously considering opening their own casino?
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The city cannot legally open their own casino unless/until the state legalizes gambling.
I think what the city is saying is…they may be open to an arrangement with another band to open a casino in Duluth, if the financial benefits of doing so were there.
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Count me out. The little bit of gambling that’s allowed in the state already causes enough damage.
I don’t believe that more gambling is the answer to anything.
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“it means this money can now be used for our own community,” she said.
The she is Karen Diver, the chairperson of the tribe. The message is clear. She doesn’t feel that the casino is a part of Duluth, nor is she or the tribe a part of Duluth. *our own community* is somewhere else.
So maybe that’s where the casino should be?
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I agree. Does it get any more racist than Karen Diver’s statement? She continually proves in these stories that she is a very racist person that hates whites, blacks, Hispanics – all races except Indians.
“it means this money can now be used for our own community,” she said.
If one of our City staff said this quote regarding the Indians, there would be holy he** raised – lawsuits, firings, etc.
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Thus is the “world” the WhiteMan has created.
So I guess Duluthians and the DFL citizens will just
have to live with it.
{I wonder if the Casino will start ‘paying-out” better}??
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So if the casino no longer has to pay, can the city stop allowing the casino to lease the land?? Or is there a contract holding them?
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I’m pretty sure the land itself has already been deeded to the reservation and is being held in trust for them by the federal government.
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Most of It goes right to retiree benefits. And that’s not enough to pay what we owe them.
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Actually, only $11,200,000 went to pay off retiree health care costs.
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Very misleading.
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If the judgement stands I would think that the whole contract as setup does not stand. Then I think the city has the right to request closer of the casino. I have never been in favor of legalized gambling but now think with the financial situation of the citys and state in such bad shape that its time to look at casinos as a viable option. People are going to gamble no matter what and its just determined by where and how. Obviously there is lots of money being spent by those who participate and I see no reason the State of Minnesota and Duluth do not get their fair share to help put there financial houses in order. Its time to let your local and state representatives know how you feel.
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One would think that having the very rare situation of a casino in a downtown of a city would be a huge advantage for a city, whether that casino makes direct payments to that city or not. But this casino seems to degrade the downtown, not positively contribute to it. There absolutely has to be some kind of a symbiotic relationship in this situation but I’m failing to see it now. If the original contract is truly void in the strict sense then that opens up a ton of options which most likely includes removal of the casino. Can someone please explain the benefits that this crappy casino will now bring the city? Hopefully they will take some of that money which “can now be used for our own community” and spend it on the casino and community where the casino actually resides. With the poor attitude and leadership that Diver displays I have a feeling this area will plunge further into urban blight.
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Let me clarify. Diver shows some good leadership by believing she’s doing the right thing for her nation. But the long-term implications of not working with other people far outweighs the short-term profits. Signing a new contract which benefits both sides would be a huge move on her part.
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This neatly demonstrates the difference between acting in your self interest and greed. When people act in their self interest everyone benefits. When you act out of greed everyone is poorer. Everyone is poorer because of the decisions of this tribe.
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This is exactly what is wrong. Her nation is my nation. After 200 years we need to become one nation. War is a ugly thing, we won, get over it. Either take it back or follow the same laws the rest of us follow. I am so sick and tired of ‘african-americans”, “mexican-americans” and “native-americans”and all the other special groups. It is time for equal rights for all Americans born here. I am just as NATIVE american as any of them in Karen’s natiion and am just getting sick and tired of all the special interests.
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While ‘we’ may have won, ‘we’ we also signed many treaties and made the promises and rules that the tribes are living by and holding ‘us’ to today.
Your argument isn’t with the band, it’s with the officials of this nation that put the policies in place many, many years ago.
Most were done in perpetuity so, you are probably the one that will just have to “get over it”.
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You right Katydid. First the government allowed the indians to take all the walleyes, now the indians are taking all the suckers.
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Legalize gambling. Let me start a casino and I will treat the citizens of Duluth with respect.
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If you did that you would lose your ass!
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I am sorry. Ness sounds like a whiny baby in this article. I find it amusing that a few weeks back the DNT posted a story about the reservoir in West Duluth falling about and here he is preaching about what is going to be “critical infrastructure projects.” Here is an idea Donny, stop spending money, you don’t have, on feel good projects like the NorShor, Aquarium. The sad thing is that he isn’t the only one to blame for this. Doty spent on the Technology Village. This city really needs to get its finances and spending in order.
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So wabenane, racer, whatever. What is your solution. Come. Tell us. I know I am all ears, waiting on pins and needles. Typical liberal.
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racer- do you have anything intelligent to say or are you here just to troll every comment by Nessopotamian. Did he nail your mom or what? Get a life.
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I’m not sure most people in Duluth would like to be paying $60 a gallon for their water, nor would the businesses in town.
The city has no control over electric rates and, even if it did, why would you want to make Allete/Minnesota Power even richer than they are now?
Having the meters charge $100 an hour would be pretty detrimental to the businesses in that area that are trying to survive.
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Sorry, you didn’t specify ‘the casino’, except for the meters.
It never occurred to me that you actually thought the city could raise the rates for just one business in town.
I’d actually given you credit for being brighter than that. Obviously, I was wrong.
The city still has no control over the electric part of the utilities either.
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Perhaps the city administration should look at the casino as what it really is: reservation land within city limits. Upon that basis maybe the city could charge a different rate from the usual business rate. Remember, if the building burned down the tribe would still hold reservation land there. The building and business are irrellevant, it is still a part of the reservation..
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The city can absolutely raise rates for water/sewer to the casino…just as Proctor or any other area outside of the city pays more for water than Duluth residents!
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you cannot raise the rates for one bussiness over another it would be illegal and the casino probaly pays more in electricity than any bussiness down town
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The tribe purchased the land in downtown, making it part of their “nation”, meaning Duluth can charge whatever they want to provide services to this “nation”. It isn’t just any old business. It’s a completely different deal.
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Simple way to solve this problem……just boycott the casino for about a month.
The problem will probably get resolved.
No income, no problem……
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And the big one in Cloquet.
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There isn’t a casino in Cloquet. There is one in Carlton but, the people there don’t seem to have a problem with it.
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You mean Black Bear casino I think. And true, I have much less of a problem with that because it’s kind of off on its own, and it isn’t in the middle of a town. Downtown Duluth just looks kind of tacky with a big old casino right in the middle, across the street from Last Place on Earth no less. That just isn’t healthy for the community.
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Its not going to be boycotted beacause many people figure they are going to get rich. When I was young the dream was to get a good job now it is to win the lottery. The cure: legalize gambling, the scratch-off tickets are huge look at the actual payout rate (discount 1 and 2 dollar winners which usually get put right back in) the money was supposed to go for the “enviroment” there is some much involved the bears should all be weraing fur coats. If gambling is legal and run even remotly honest money would be huge when the idians first got into it my dad said that if there was a riverboat style with a bridge or shuttles to it it would be a gold mine
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I vote to turn the Irvine in to a casino on the water for city revenueas well as easy access for the tourist population. We should also be billing the other casino for roads, water use and a green tax for so much consumption of electricity . Why should the indian population reap all the gambling benefits? Let’s all share a piece of the pie. Or better yet, move your downtown casino to your reservation and the city will take over the space. Let’s get a tax paying business in there.
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I have no problem if the city wanted to start a casino, just like the state wants to start one to fund a Vikings stadium. The problem I see is they will have city employees running this casino. They (the city or state) would need to get into a contract with a company that runs casinos and get a cut of that revenue. The government would be the only entity to build a casino and probably lose money on the deal. But than again, it would probably be a situation like you have now.
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Here we go again. I get it; government bad, right Nessoboring?
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racer- do you have anything intelligent to say or are you here just to troll every comment by Nessopotamian. What, did he steal your girlfriend or something? Get a life.
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The casino should never have been allowed in Duluth, or anywhere else, in the first place. The casino should be forced to close and get a tax paying business in that location. I have never been iinside either of their casinos and I never intend to do so.
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After reading this article, I find it amazing that the City of Duluth was able to fund it’s infrastructure needs before the Casino funds came to be. Mr. Ness, the way you fund road construction is by using taxes – not NEW taxes, but the extremely high taxes/fees that we are already paying. (you know – the revenues that have built/purchased aquariums, hockey arenas and old theatre/strip clubs)
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Well said Mr. Ziegler. The City receives $6 million a year from the Tribe for rent on land & a building they do not own. Another 40% of their budget from LGA. Duluth is the poster child for welfare. Only gross mismanagement at the highest level can explain a City deriving half their budget derived from outside sources for doing absolutely nothing can have the worst streets imaginable. High fees on utilities & the highest city sales tax in the state cannot overcome this level of incompetent, irresponsible fiscal management.
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Thanks for inadvertantly answering my question, Jim J.
It seems to me that the city thought they had some kind of foolproof contract to bleed the cashcow of the casino, only now the tribe has managed to slip out from under the city’s thumb.
So, now all the city funding is going to have to come from taxpayer’s pockets, and they just DON’T LIKE IT?
I’d think there should be some kind of investigations going on as to just where all this money has been going for so many years.
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So many good coments by previous posters many of which I agree with totally. Regardless of the “legalities” involved, Chairwoman Diver is definately increasing racial tensions between the tribe and most others who aren’t members of FDL. Her comment that the money not paid to the City as part of the agreement (negotiated in good faith by both parties back in the 80′s) could now be used in “our own” community certainly has a certain tribe vs. all others ring to it which no long term good will come. Very short term thinking….maybe she’s gone “corporate” which seems to be the way to many decisions are looked at these days. Let’s not worry about how our decisions affect next year or several years from now….let’s just run up profits this quarter.
I don’t have any problem with any entity (including FDL) wanting to prosper and granted, FDL has come a long way in the past few years which is good for all of us, but when they start the “us vs. them” stuff and don’t want to hold up agreements and/or negotiate a new agreement in good faith or feel they are part of the larger communities health and vitality by paying their fair share of what is nothing short of a legally sanctioned, no competition allowed cash cow…..that’s where they lose much of my good will.
I fear no good will come of this (even for FDL in the long run) if it continues to play out the way it appears it’s going to.
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I’m confused how you can think that going from an existing agreement paying 19% to paying 0 in the future can be considered negotiating in good faith. Good faith negotiating requires by definition that each side give up something to get something.
I’ve always thought the concept of “good faith negotiation” meant that both sides honestly try to reach a fair and quitable compromise on all outstanding issues. Telling the other side that you’re going to pay them nothing in the future for something that was previously worth 19% and is agruably worth even more now doesn’t to me seem in good faith. In the first contract 25 years ago the consideration given on the City’s side was granting FDL the right to turn the casino property into FDL land in return for 19% of the receipts. Now that the initial contract is (or will be soon) expired, I’m not sure what additional consideration the City could offer since the land has been turned over and that of course will never be revearsed. My guess is that out City officials didn’t think this through very well when drawing up the first contract…..but that being said, that still doesn’t release FDL from negotiating in good faith (which should their ethical and moral responsibility) for what they know is a great benefit to them…..the right to operate a casino protected by law from any competition and any other services the city provides such as fire and police protection as well as maintaining the infastructure around the casino…..as every other business and citizen has to pay for.
What is legally enforceable does not automatically mean it’s an ethical or morally correct position. We humans are so funny that way…..so often if we can gain power or advantage over somebody else through legal (or other means) manuevering…..we seem to embrace our “legal” position ever so tenaciously while failing to see the harm we may be doing…..why, because we can.
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Our laws are not frozen into immutable form but instead are constantly undergoing revision in response to a changing society. Such new laws & regulations might prevent an existing contract from being executed as originally intended. Familiar examples of legal changes that affect contracts include new tax plans, local ordinances, food and drug regulations, new patent laws, remedies, statutes of limitations, etc.
In this case the original contract was negotiated before the National Indian Gaming Act was enacted. The Indian Gaming Act ensures that the tribe shall have the sole proprietary interest in and responsibility for the conduct of any gaming operation – not the City of Duluth. When the Act took effect the original agreements between the city and the band fell out of compliance. With this much $ at stake litigation is inevitable.
The argument that the Tribe did not engage in ‘good faith negotiation’ is difficult to follow. Karen Driver was elected as Chair by Tribe members. Her allegiance, legal & fiduciary responsibility are to the members of the Tribe. She’s required to protect and grow their financial assets. She did what anyone in her position would do – she sought legal assistance on this issue & now she’s following the applicable laws and court rulings. That’s our adversarial system, two sides vigorously clash and an impartial judge or jury decides the outcome. From the Tribe’s standpoint the ruling was fair, they employ 300 workers & paid the City $75 million & are obligated to pay an additional $6 million+ a year for rent on land & a building they own.
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I have been involved with “city” negotiantions they believe they are right and the hell with whoever they are dealing with. They believe they can change contracts anytime they feel ask the retirees
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No contract renegotiation = no casino…maybe.
No contract renegotiation = no liquor license renewal = no casino…almost a sure thing.
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Is the liquor license left to the city to provide or not provide?
If that’s the case, we should be urging the city to non-renew the license…that may cut down on the drunkeness in and around the casino that takes up our police force’s time.
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I certainly hope the City of Duluth stops providing fire and police to the casino since it is considered tribal holy land. You want to be seperate but equal? I for one am sick of being blamed for everything that the natives have had gone wrong. Sorry for being of European ancestry and I apologize for all those white people so many years ago (none of whom were related to me) that beat you. Move on and stop pulling this racism crap that you (and Chairwoman Driver) seem to pull out of your rears any time you don’t like something. Stop whining and complaing and take care of your own people!
You hate the US government (we get that)…now stop your people from getting government assistance and take care of them yourself with all these casino profits.
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Wow jojo, i have never seen so much ignorance in once post. FDL is working with the government, which is why chairwoman Diver is in Washington D.C. as we speak. Which is why chairwoman Diver goes to D.C. multiple times a year. No one is blaming other races, stuff happens, FDL is not blaming anyone, they are simply saying the contract is void. That is all, nothing about race.
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Boo Hoo!
Since the casino backed out, now we gotta pay our own graft!
Sounds like that to me. Anyone else?
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What it sounds like to me is that back in the 80′s the city and the tribe worked out a mutually beneficial deal that the Tribe now wants nothing to do with and does not want to recognize that without the city their Casino and subsequent revenue’s would not exist.
If I run a business and I rent an office, my lease is a cost of doing business…I can not pay my rent and maybe get away with it for awhile, but that dog won’t hunt in the long run.
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close it down any way you can and kick karen out of Duluth.
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But then you’d still have an even larger problem with trying to pay off all the graft that the city is so used to.
But, I suppose it’s way easier to blame the Native Americans than it is to take responsibility for the sorry state of your infrastructure and the city officials YOU elected to office?
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I’d really like to get a look at what the average band member makes at a casino vs. what Queen Karen makes per year.
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Bauer you are completely wrong. When the first deal was reached in the 80′s there was no American Indian Gaming Act. Our Federal Govt and the BIA drew this agreement up which technically put the tribe in the wrong for giving the city the money, due to the money was not for the sole support of the tribe or for goods and services which they deemed road repairs are not services.
Mike Hockerts
As far as being an eyesore? I can name you 3 buildings within 1000 feet of the casino that are more of a blight on downtown and the city than the casino that never get mentioned when it comes to eyesores.
Duluth needs to face it, they spent way too much on useless tourism places than on what the city really needs! Maybe they can use the profits from the aquarium or the movie theater to pay for the roads and infastructure?
As for comparing what Ms Diver makes compared to the regular casino worker? Compare what they have for responsibilities first. The average Casino worker for what they do make a very decent living compared to workers at many of the businesses in town, Ms. Diver has much more on her plate than the average casino worker and I am sure she is paid for it.
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I’m not surprised with the majority of these posts. Greed and jealousy thrives in the hearts of closed minded people. Everyone wants THEIR piece of the pie. So the Natives can have a casino on land that is owned by their tribe. Are you telling me that the city of Duluth can’t function on their own? They have come to rely solely on this tribe? What kind of leadership does Duluth have? Why have we become so child like? We see the Fond Du Lac people playing with a better toy than we have so lets cut them down in every way we can. I swear sometimes I’m embarrassed to be caucasian..
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Mike Hockerts,have you been watching too many General Custer movies? Are you proud to bathe in such hatred? Surround the casino? Seriously? Can I have some of that whiskey you are nipping? Don’t spose you could spare some horses and maybe a couple covered wagons my posse could use in the event your plan takes flight do you?
I am not quite sure who people are seeing walking around drunk, but I know of a few transient hotels inhabited by non other than Duluth’s very own drunkards that have been around for decades!!
The casino puts a cork in the free flowing bottle and wow!! Light is shed on all the nasty happenings that have gone unnoticed all this time! Should we blame the reservation for all the dirty rubbish down by the shipyard too? How about the topless bars that entertain the drunken sailors too? Prostitution?? Duluth’s dirty little secret? Or shall we blame all of that on Superior?
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