October 1, 2011 at 7:00 pm in INFORUM
In the final moments of the first half, the most exciting play I’ve seen in a long time happened during the Bison/Gopher game at TCF stadium.
Tags: columns, Michelle Turnberg, Opinion 51 Comments »
ESPN last week aired a documentary, “Catching Hell”, about the now infamous Chicago Cubs “Bartman game”. What it said about sports, society, and civility is sad and scary. There’s no excuse for assault, even paying $ to be reminded how crappy your team is.
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It’s been said, that the best seat for a Vikings game is in your living room. I’ve attended RedHawks games, and Twins games. They seem to be more subdued than football games. But a 70 year old guy ought to know at this stage in his life that this type of high octane game between the bison and gophers, is going to be loud, emotional, and crazy. I want to see and hear the game, and I like seeing the replays. I’d pass on seeing most football games in person. I’m more interested in the technical aspects of the game, and not the emotional side of it, but that’s just me. Michelle, did you enjoy the game, or was it ruined by that one incident?
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Just an observation. The elderly man in the story was out of line and should not have touched the young woman. The young woman was extremely self centered and selfish. I am very sure she was not taking into consideration that an old man may not be able to jump up to see the play. That she was blocking his view by doing so which she was showing no respect or consideration for him. Both are very wrong in their actions. Her wrong and self centered action lead to his assaultive act. In our rude “me first” society this is all to common occurance. I consider their actions equally wrong.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 31 107
You are absolutely wrong. College football is to be watched while standing. This old duffer was completely in the wrong and he knew it which is why he left at halftime.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 62 31
Watched while standing. Then why bother putting seats in the stadium at all? You could fit lots more people in without all those unneeded chairs.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 27 48
Glen, you are so wrong on so many levels. If the girl was being such a big nuisance, security should have been notified and would have taken care of the situation in the manner that is appropriate (they probably wouldn’t have done anything, by the sounds of what she was [or wasn't] doing). The old man should have been taken out of the stadium because of his intolerance. If he can’t handle the college football atmosphere, then he should be watching the game at his nursing home on BTN.
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So what about the fan in fron of her, who likely stood. Should they have been aware that the person sitting behind the person sitting behind them was 70 years old and doesn’t want to stand up?
What about the person sitting in front of that person?
No, instead you need to consider what is normal, expected behavior. That includes standing up during exciting portions of sporting events. If you are going to the beach, expect to deal with sand.
If you are going to game, expect you might need to stand. If this bothers you, then stay home.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 77 9
Its a college football game. It is not against the rules to stand. Same applies to the Fargo Dome. Why should this girl not enjoy a game because of him? Maybe if he had nicely said something like “I’m an old bast and I can’t stand, can you limit your standing? ” it may had changed this. But here’s the problem. If she sits down, the people in front of her have to sit down. Here’s what I would have said… “if you can walk down to the first row and tell everyone to sit, I will sit.” Otherwise sorry buddy. Watch from home. This isn’t an opera. Its a football game.
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@ Glen: Well said.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 7 17
Glen is so correct … they are both at fault, but …. Reminds me of the ladies HATS thing — heaven forbid if you are sitting behind a lady with a large hat, as you will have to stand up to see anything, and those behind you will have to stand up to see over you [god forbid if you are 4' 10" and behind a 6' 3"]. Reading the story, the gal had been ASKED not to block his view. Rather rude and selfish, isn’t it that she gave not a second thought to it? Did the older gentleman give up half his food money to go, one more time, to watch a beloved football team? Only to have his view of EVERY key play, blocked?? Did he leave the game, in disgust, because he could NOT see the plays?? Or did he move, trying to watch the game standing up?? She could have offered to switch seats with him — then both would have been happy. Michelle, you too will be old one day, and I hope that you remember how you sided with the hot shot college student being so rude to an elderly gentleman. You, yourself, stated it was the “most exicting plays you had seen in a long time” — and somebody could not see it because somebody else exercised their right to STAND and block a view. Cool. The gentleman may have been at his last game — the college student has 50 more YEARS to go to games. I fully resent your comment that perhaps older people should watch games from their living rooms [as if this game was televised - NOT]. Young people have a green light and older people should just stay out of the way?? You sure are not doing anything to teach the younger generation any respect for those who went before them — you are only teaching them it is your world — take it, no matter who you stomp on. Shame on you.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 24 87
You kidding, SL?He physcially assaulted a woman for blocking his view, temporarily and you are OK with that? If assaulting a young woman is OK if she blocks somebody’s view, what would the appropriate response for somebody assaulting your wife, girl friend, or daughter be? Pistol whipping?
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According to the article, he never touched her body — only grabbed her hoddie. Obviously, there is huge comtingent of the under 40 or so, crowd on board here. I maybe never would have said anything if it were not suggested that the “old” guy should have stayed home. You all need to remember that the rooster comes home to roost, and that you, too, will be “old” some day. And I sincerely hope that you will be treated, likewise. How does one know his age ?? A guess? Maybe he was 80?? And maybe he has donated tons to $$$ so that your team CAN play the game. There is a stutue that says that is illegal to discriminate — due to age. You want to pay to build seating for the elderly because the youngesters have no manners?? It probably is coming ………..
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Quit theorizing about this man’s life. You seem to think he either gave up his food money for the month or gave his money to the team…get real. Sometimes, crochety old men are just crochety old men. It is NEVER okay to assault someone just because they didn’t listen to you. And this is the first article of Michelle’s that I have truly loved – how right she is about the mistake this man made. If you can’t take the heat of being at a crazy game where people are up on their toes, then get out of the stadium.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 9
What the old CREEP did was (by definition of law) ASSAULT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE! If you have an issue at a public event, you seek SECURITY STAFF to resolve the matter. You do not ASSAULT someone…especially a WOMAN!!! Freaking INCREDIBLE! If that were my daughter, the old creep would have been picking up his teeth. Frankly, he is lucky the young lady was not accompanied by an assertive, protective male. I dont know many men who would sit by and ignore an UNPROVOKED ASSAULT on their daughter, wife or girlfriend.
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Maybe if she had some manners she wouldn’t have needed to have been taught them by the old gentleman. Obnoxious fans are too common. Sounds like the guy asked her previously and he has the right to see the game he paid for just as much as her. Maybe she’ll learn from her rudeness and be more careful next time.
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So you agree with the old man, that violence is the correct answer. The old man would be picking up his teeth but you would join him in jail and be paying for all his dental work.
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If someone did that to my daughter or girlfriend, its my responsibiliy to defend them. Thats a mand responsibility. Thats a line you do not cross. I would have followed him and he would be in jail where he can pick a fight with an inmate. But had I been with her, I would have switched seats with her and let him try to pull me down.
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You talk about hitting a 70 year old mnan who touched her hood, and you call yourself a man? Not hardly. I would love to be present if you tried to attack a 70 year old man for no reason.
Hot debate. What do you think? 14 23
Maybe you and the old man can both beat the crap out the girl. I’m sure you will high five him too!
Tell you what. If I see an old man assault a girl, I will go find a bigger old man he will beat the crap out of the woman beater. And hopefully you too!
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Don’t sugarcoat it. He not only “touched” her hood, but he yanked it hard enough to pull her down into her seat. If someone did that to my girlfriend, I would not only call security, but I would stand directly in front of the man in question as to block his view as a way to protest him. If he tried getting physical with me, I would have no problem hitting him in self defense. If he can’t handle the college football atmosphere, then he should be at his nursing home watching the game on BTN.
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Good heavens at best this would be simple assault, no jail time and a fine. I do not agree with what he did any more than I agree with her rude behavior. I am disappointed that so many can not see that her rude behavior was also, while not criminal, was out of line.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 9 23
Her behavior was not rude. In order for her to make accomodations for this man, she would have had to ask the person in front of her to sit down, and the person in front of her would have had to comply and ask the person in front of them and so on and so forth. At what point does that become the old man’s responsibility and not hers? Immediately. It is not her problem. It’s his. If he can get an entire stadium to comply with his requests, GREAT. Unfortunately, there is no way that will ever happen. I don’t go to football games because I hate the noise and rowdiness. I watch it at home. And if they don’t telecast the Bison games, big deal. Find another team to watch.
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Boy, that is a sexiest remark. I thought women got out from under the thumb of males many years ago when they gained equality. God help us if you are in the service and pay more attention to definding the female soldiers than you do attending to assigned duty.
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I love when idiots cite laws they know nothing about. Its battery, not assault, “by definition”. lol. what hornbook are you reading.
at 70, he would probably welcome a new set of teeth paid for by you.
where did you get your law degree sir
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A person commits a simple assault if he/she attempts to cause or
purposely, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another. Im pretty sure grabbing someones clothing and yanking them down so their head hits a chair would qualify as a simple assault…or perhaps a battery…depending on the jurisdiction prosecuting the case.
Now, dont you have some UFO conspiracy to look into?
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you didn’t say simple assault one time in your original post, and you had 3 attempts to do it. thats a nice copy/paste job on the definition though, but you still got it wrong, lol
battery = physical, assault = not physical. assault = the fear of immediate impending physical harm, which implies you need to see it coming, which means she couldn’t have been assaulted cuz it happened from behind. but if by simple assault you mean battery, then yes you’re correct.
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More so then any other sport, college football is so much more exciting when the crowd is completely into the game. These students play for their teammates, their fans and their school. Doesn’t matter what school it is, I’ve seen that everywhere. And when the crowd is into the game, the athletes normally produce a better result.
My dad is closer to the 70 year old man compared to the college aged student and we were at the Bison game yesterday just like every home game. And my father was up for every third down and every exciting play in the game. And that’s after already climbing to the top of the Dome. I do very much appreciate our older fans as we are all supporting the team whether it is cheering or even just buying a ticket. But it’s even more fun when we all have a good time together cheering on OUR team.
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Michelle does not note that man was incapable of standing (70 is not that old)…he sounds like a crotchety old guy that was annoyed at having young excited fans around him. I have attended hundreds of sporting events and almost everyone stands, jumps up, sits down, jumps up again – it’s called CHEERING. If you don’t want to be in that situation – get seats down front. I was at a Twins game once, when these little girls had huge signs and were trying to get on the big screen – they continually held these signs up, blocking everyone’s view in the row behind them even when we were standing. That was very frustrating and when we asked them to stop putting them in front of our faces, their mother went beserk on us.. I doubt if changing seats with this young lady would have fixed anything, because EVERYONE stands up and cheers at football games – it’s an automatic response if you are any kind of fan!!
Maybe the should save the front rows for people who don’t want to sit and the next time AC/DC comes to the Fargo Dome I promise I will not stand and I will take the front row please.
Unreal!!! Had I witnessed that, I would have broke his hip by beating him with his walker. Assault a young woman? There is some things that are so wrong it justifies beating up an old man. (I’m being sarcastic but you catch my drift. I would actually have grabbed a security guard and made sure he ward arrested. )
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 10
Art: Perhaps it is you who should check the legals. In MN, putting your hands on someone in the manner described is at minimum Misdemeanor Assault in the Fifth Degree. Look it up. In fact, had she suffered any broken bones, fractures, or received a concussion, which could have happened, it would be felony assault. The term “Battery” is not an offense in MN. More to the point, there is no way to justify his actions. The young woman standing was not rude in the context of a football game.
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opinionated says, “touched her hood”? Really. Is that the same as pulling her backwards so she falls and hits her head on a seat? By all means make a point but don’t try to polish a turd.
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First just let me say the guy shouldn’t have touched the girl.
Now how about if you go to a game and it isn’t someone standing that blocks your view, how about if they bring a banner or some other big object like say those number one foam hands you see at sporting events, and basically lift it up into your view to show their team support repeatedly? Is that different?
There are people who like sporting events who really can’t stand the whole time or can’t jump up and down repeatedly. Should there be an area for them to see the game too?
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it would be nice if there could be. Happens in high schools – but have never seen in the colleges.
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Who checked his I.D. to know his age?? Could have been 80 for all you know.
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All this is getting blown out of proportion. Everyone needs to remember this is from Michelle’s point of view. Her column is an OPINION column.
It might not have happened exactly as she stated, since she took the side of the college-aged girl. Is the guy really 70? Or an 80 year old who looks like 70? This is Michelle’s assumption of his age. Did Michelle feel the tug the girl felt? I doubt it. Only the girl can tell us if the tug really hurt or just scared her. Michelle also assumed it was a college-aged girl. I know someone in college who is 45. Not quite close to being 70.
Both of them are guilty. The college-aged girl for being disrespectful to the man’s initial request. She ignored the request to sit down. The man is guilty for grabbing the girl’s hood. Do not touch. Security should have been called and both of these people should have been escorted out of the stadium. End of story.
Michelle’s last paragraph is arrogant and self-centered, just like the college-aged girl:
“But if you don’t want anyone in front of you blocking your view, buy front-row seats, or better yet, watch from the comfort of your living room recliner.”
The man should not stay home because of someone being rude and disrespectful. The girl should not stay home because of someone being rude and disrespectful. The real end of the story should be: Everyone needs to be polite and respectful.
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Just because it is in the opinion column does not mean it didn’t happen. The correct thing for the man to do was to call a security guard and they would have relocated either him or her depending upon their jurisdiction. Instead, he took it into his own hands and stooped much lower than her level of “rudeness”. He made a choice and now he looks pathetic. I don’t care how old he is. A man should never physically harm a woman… but that’s just my view I guess. The older crowd on here seems to think it’s okay though.
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The old guy is in the wrong. She paid just as much for her ticket as he did. Michelle said that “he warned her” about standing, I’m assuming previously. Is that true?? Did he really have a conversation with the girl saying “if you stand I’m going to aggressively put you in your place? Or was that simply an “old man” statement meant to strike fear and intimidation into her? I warned you? Really?? If this person of age would have “warned me” I would have politely said that my seat is worth just as much as yours and if you have a problem with it take it up with the stadium security/management. What happens if he jerks on the girls hoodie and it ends up choking her?? Hmmm….I’m sure there are lots of people saying “oh that would never happen”….well, guess what it does! This 70 something guy was completely in the wrong. If I was that person he assaulted I would have brought it up to stadium management and had him removed from the game. That sort of sporting event intolerance is unacceptable and assaulting someone because you don’t agree with what they are doing is completely asinine. Be an adult and remove yourself from the situation.
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It seems alcohol and sports events go hand-in-hand. It is possible the college-age girl was drinking, which resulted in her rude and disrespectful behavior to the gentleman and perhaps to others around her. No one wants to sit next to an obnoxious drunk. I was at the Gopher-Bison game. Even though the TCF Stadium is alcohol free, the alcohol and drunken behavior were present.
Michelle needs to speak about her DUI. Readers could benefit from her opinion on drinking, driving, etc.
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I believe her credibility is in question. First the DUI, now she writes a peice about witnessing a young lady being battered. She did mention how people took sides, but it would have been a better story if she wrote about notifying security or the police of the crime. Unfortunately, this illegal act didn’t warrant action, just a story.
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Who the hell said she was being an obnoxious drunk? So standing and cheering = rude and disrespectful? Have you ever been to a sporting event? Standing and cheering is beyond the norm for these types of events. I also hear a lot of people saying she ignored his requests. From the article, it appears his request was in the form of a warning. That would be a forceful demand, not a request. Everyone is welcome at a game, but don’t expect an entire audience to bend over backwards so YOU can enjoy an event the way YOU like it.
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Perhaps Michelle left out the alcohol factor on purpose due to her previous indiscretion. No one wants to be labeled a hypocrite.
I am sure neither the college-aged girl or the gentleman were given breath tests for alcohol so we will never know their true state of mind.
Alcohol affects everyone differently. The end result is usually the same, inappropriate behavior whether it is at a sporting events or driving drunk.
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I think most people would agree that yes, alcohol use can result in rude behavior. However, it wasn’t mentioned as a factor on either side of the incident. So I guess I wouldn’t assume that because Michelle has a dui on her record that she is somehow sugar coating the story to make the girl sound more innocent. Why not discuss what the article is about instead of trying to sensationalize it with assumptions?
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Kate J said: It seems alcohol and sports events go hand-in-hand. It is possible the college-age girl was drinking, which resulted in her rude and disrespectful behavior to the gentleman and perhaps to others around her. No one wants to sit next to an obnoxious drunk. I was at the Gopher-Bison game. Even though the TCF Stadium is alcohol free, the alcohol and drunken behavior were present.
why would Michelle Turnberg want to speak to anyone about her DUI. Has she went to court? Has she pleaded guilty or been found guilty? As bad as Michelles columns are your posts are worse.
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I’m no legal expert, but a simple search of her name on the North Dakota Supreme Court website will reveal that she was found guilty of DUI.
I believe it is her business whether or not she wants to discuss her past legal woes. She could use her status as a public figure, and connection with the Forum to make a positive impact and raise additional awareness on the topic of Drunk Driving.
Many good people make poor decisions, which is not really news worthy. But a person bouncing back and making a difference is story that should be reported on more often.
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I didn’t know if she went to court yet or if she plead guilty. What is she bouncing back from? It’s not like a dui is a life threating event. The only difference that I can see that she is making is adding her crappy column to Von Pinion’s drivel.
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Not so much her bouncing back from the DUI, but possibly writing a column about drunk driving or what an epidemic it is in North Dakota.
As for a DUI being a life threatening event, I guess that goes case by case. Some result in legal troubles and no injuries, others result in deaths.
I also agree with you that her columns are trainwrecks. If she admitted to writing them while drunk, I’d understand alot more. Take care.
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I agree with Turnberg… If a bunch of trolls on a message board are making you madder and madder, then stay away from the message board..sheesh..
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If an older gentleman asked me politely to avoid standing at a game, I’d tell him I would do my best, but if I want to cheer or I can’t see I will also stand up. Taking a polite request into consideration is admirable. BUT, from the sounds of it, this old man “warned” her.. since everyone is having fun assuming things, I’m going to assume he was less than polite the first time he exchanged words with her. He should not have put his hands on her clothes and yanked her down PERIOD. If it was bothering him from the start, he should have seeked out a staffer and asked if there was a way he could be accomidated if he couldn’t see. It’s sad that the girl will be remembering that incident now. I’d be shaken if a guy did that to me too!
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