Elementary school students and other ‘Fans of Hope’ are distressed over the Internet star’s possible death
September 26, 2011 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
Last year Dana Coleman’s first-grade students at Andover (Minn.) Elementary School followed the lives of Lily the black bear and her cubs Hope and Faith through online videos and daily updates from Ely’s North American Bear Center.
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No freakin’ way. I can’t believe the DNT took a comment from a teacher and turned it into a story. This is a wild animal, and has been made famous by the local media. What a disgrace in the local media.
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You’re really surprised?
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David – I dont believe that this uproar is about hunting…it’s the fact that a hunter seems to have specifically targeted a bear that was being observed by a worldwide audience. Had the bear been shot without an awareness of the program, reactions would be entirely different. If the bear was shot out of spite – that’s not hunting – that’s just killing.
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Neither you nor anybody else, including Lynn Rogers, has any idea what happened to this bear. I know next to nothing about bears, but I would assume a two-year-old is probably ready to stop hanging around with its mother and ready to find its own territory. In the end, since Rogers refuses to mark his bears for identification, nobody will ever know if this particular bear is dead or simply walked away. Making up stories about hunters targeting specific bears doesn’t serve anybody’s purpose except perhaps to drum up some sympathy (and more donations) for Rogers.
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It’s a Minnesota thing. Sarcastic humor runs rampant here, especially in the great northwoods.
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OMG, it’s right on his Facebook page? Then it’s gotta be true!
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I suppose if the hunter follows the law as required he will have Hope in a crock pot and Hope jerky.
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“Hope in a crock pot” is a bad thing? How else would you cook a bear roast?
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DanH, before I responded to David’s comment I read his statement twice just to make sure I didnt misread it. David said this article was a disgrace and merely a comment remanufactured into a story. The story wasnt about hunting a bear – it was about the impact of the bear’s death on children that had studied this bear. If it turns out that it was hunted legally or maybe just wandered off, that’s a great way to close the chapter on this story. But, since there’s evidence that someone found enjoyment in killing an animal – just because and was callous to the feelings of others, the DNT has every right to publish this article.
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Will this NEVER END?
There certainly must be more important topics to disguss than the possible demise of some stupid bruin.
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“Tranquilizing risks their lives. The research we do is based on trust. If we were sticking needles in them, they wouldn’t trust us very long.”
Straight explanation from Mr. Rogers. I hope Ms. Coleman explains that Mr. Rogers had the chance to mark Hope and his other tamed bears but refuses to do so. And I hope she explains that not marking these tame bears makes it impossible for a hunter to identify them as a research bear.
Mr. Rogers differs very dramatically from bear researchers across the world on this point.
He hit on a key issue that I also hope Ms Coleman explains to her young students–”they wouldn’t trust us very long” he says.
EXACTLY! Taming bears –no matter your view on whether one can obtain viable research results after doing so–absolutely makes them more vulnerable to death through the hands of people. Hunting might come to mind first, but being hit by a car or being shot by someone who’s deathly afraid of the bear that walks up to them–just looking for a food that it is used to getting from people–is certainly another.
We have great evidence that very good, useful research can easily be obtained by bears that have been collared and permanently marked right here in MN.
An example is the oldest known black bear in the wild, still being followed by MN DNR officials.
She wasn’t named and she wasn’t tamed.
She’s managed to keep a radio collar on (unlike many of Mr. Rogers bears, it appears–another thing that might be worthy of more public scrutiny is why he seems to have such unusually high trouble with this), and she has been marked with permanent ear tags for decades.
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2011/08/oldest_black_bear_of_all_time.php
For another great example of what can be obtained through bear research–right here in MN–see this interesting and very useful work:
http://www.northlandoutdoors.com/event/article/id/233198/
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Isn’t that special, we have a tree hugging teacher who made Hope into Bambi for her students and even though she told her students it was legal I would bet she turned a lot of them students against hunting. It sounds like that hunter will be demonized as far as those kids will feel about it. I wonder how many of their folks are hunters and they will have to set their kids straight why people hunt and why game animals must be controlled to keep the populations of them down. Way too much news coverage of what should be a NON NEWS ITEM. Rodgers is WRONG and a joke as far as his bear studies go. He tames the bears and then says he studies them? He should be studying wild bears for behavior if he wants to observe tame bears he could go watch Trouble at the Zoo.
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jh45-
You have NO CLUE as to what I’m like as a PERSON or as a TEACHER. I suggest you get your facts straight and know FIRST HAND exactly what I do and say in my class with my students in regards to this project. I have 100% backing of EVERY ONE of my parents, my principal, superintendent and the school board members! THEY all have first hand knowledge of me as a person AND as a teacher. They know! Until YOU know… don’t go there!
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I so totally agree with the first two postings- if you want to reserach bear- don’t tame them or name them- like I have said before- the wolf center in Ely names their “display” wolves, not the ones they track in they collar and track in the wild.
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This whole story changed for me when I looked at this hunter’s facebook page. Until real hunters in Minnesota speak up this guy is the new poster boy for hunting black bear in the great north woods. No tree-hugger here!
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How did you happen to look up his FB page? I thought Rogers wasn’t saying who he was.
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Do you have any way at all of knowing that the facebook page titled “Lily: A bear with a bounty” was created by the same ‘hunter’ that laid the bait? I see nothing on the page that would give any kind of identity to the creator.
Is there any reason to believe that the bait was set to intentionally attract the study bears?
Are they the only bears that inhabit or wander through that area?
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Everyone seems to be missing the point. This isn’t about hunters vs. non-hunters. It isn’t even really about the bear. This is about a group of children who are saddened by the loss of an animal they watched on the internet. I love to hunt, and so do my little girls, and I don’t think that mine and my children’s love of hunting and the outdoors necessitates that I take a stand against the way other people are feeling, or the media for reporting on the life and death of a famous animal. The real shame here is that some people don’t have enough respect for a person who has an opinion different from their own to not be condescending in their discussion.
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Thanks, James
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James you are a hunter so am I. Does it not bother you that the schools are filled full of liberal anti hunting anti gun, teachers who teach the young of this generation and the one before that hunting and guns are wrong? I sure am fed up with it.
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JH, It doesn’t bother me. I take responsibility for what my children learn. I’m a far bigger influence on them than their teachers, and I teach them to have the conviction of their beliefs and to respectfully disagree those in authority if they feel differently.
This is my 6-year old’s first year grouse hunting. Despite our poor luck so far, she’s learning a lot about the outdoors, responsibility, safety, and gaining self confidence. These lessons and values will be with her long after her experiences in school.
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jh45 this is what these arguments are about, people enjoy bear=fear of ending hunting=hate animal lovers=brag about what hunters do for the earth=what animal lovers do for earth=schools teach wrong things=THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE MY GUN. I have nothing against guns. This story is about 1 bear people enjoyed. Last I saw about 1700 bears were “harvested” and I’ve not heard a peep about them. I for one don’t want to change the gun laws because the civil war is coming.
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There’s that “R” word again, research. These are no more research animals than my dog. Rogers long ago crossed the line from scientific research into a Disney-esque joke when he habituated the bears he “studies”. Now they’re just pets. Read what real scientists have to say about how Rogers has perverted the scientific method. It’s not very flattering to Rogers. Currently we are experiencing historic highs in the black bear population. Hunting is the one tool we have to control that population.
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He sounds a lot to me like a worn-out, aging hippie looking for his “Born Free” moment. A Jane Goodall wannabe, more or less. Lynn Rogers, Bear Whisperer. Something along those lines.
It’s one thing to observe wild animals discreetly from a distance. But when you stick cameras in their dens, put collars on them, follow the youngsters around and feed them if they’re not eating or even bring them back to their parents if they get lost, you’re not doing research. He’s interfered and changed their natural behavior and any information gained from it can’t be worth much.
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Whoa, Dan!
Don’t lay this trip on us ‘old hippies’! None of the ones I hung with ever had anything against livin’ off the land. We just didn’t beleive in shootin’ other people in the name of some gov’t BS. Those communes didn’t just eat veggies, man.
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“Vegetarian” an old Indian name for “Poor Hunter”.
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Control and a food source for people who in this economy can’t afford the meat prices at the grocery store- in a previous article some person said their family used to hunt but now buy their meat at a store- well, then maybe he/she can relate to the people who used to buy at a store and now can’t afford to so have to hunt wild game instead of critcise hunters.
and
“possible death” Can’t these teachers just talk about the bear missing and let them discuss the possibilites including death- good discussion point and writing assignment. Let the kids talk about death of humans in their life and pets missing, dying- it doesn’t have to be a depressing thing unless the teacher makes it so-
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What is the point of bear hunting??? I just don’t get it….
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Only those who hunt need know a point to hunting, for those who can’t appreciate it shouldn’t matter. Hunting is an activity that free people choose to participate in because it is a challenge with rewards. That’s all that needs be said about hunting.
A hunter specifically hunting for Hope is a bit sadistic, but then those who broadcast wildlife cameras across the Internet know full well that they are making their animal star a target. All this was predictable.
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Wildlife cameras on the web are a wonderful tool to learn and teach about animals in the wild. But they also teach us, or should, that all life on this planet is subject to tragedy and suffering. It is the price all animals pay for the opportunity to experience life. It’s alright to cry over the loss of a bear one has become acquainted with, but one then also must shed tears for all the creatures who have lived and died. It’s alright to be upset at some hunter who killed Hope, if one also is upset with every predator that took a life.
If we want to apply emotion to this mix, we must consider the big picture, not just the individual tragedies. If we can’t cope with the reality of Hope, we can’t cope with life itself. This is our natural world, and it is what we must accept to live here on Earth. There is no alternative, and any effort to change it will destroy that which is.
That’s a lesson. Go ahead and cry a tear for Hope. Then move on, and some day we’ll cry a tear for you.
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Unfortunately James not every parent is like you and some kids do listen to some of the garbage teachers teach at schools these days as some parents have no clue what their kids are learning either in school or out of school. Nice that your teaching your kids to hunt and be responsible. My hats off to you. I wish more parents were like that.
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I’ll preface this by saying I’m not a fan of Dr. Rogers.
Before the whole den cam/facebook thing I was just pretty ambivalent. I didn’t know alot about him and didn’t really care.
Once the whole media frenzy around the den cam started up, I did start paying attention.
What I’ve concluded since that time is, Dr. Rogers is not above manipulating things for publicity and donations.
Obviously, the first time that came into play was when Lilly abandoned Hope and Rogers, instead of just letting nature take it’s course, returned the cub to it’s mother on multiple occasions and, when the mother wouldn’t/couldn’t feed it, Rogers did.
Had nature been allowed to take it’s course, Roger’s ‘fans’ would have lost interest and donations would have dried up, leaving him as deeply in debt as he started out.
“Saving” the cub paid off handsomely though.
Of course, the next season, there was another unnatural occurrence, due to his intervention.
Lilly ended up with a cub that didn’t, by nature, belong in the den and when she had two cubs that year, one failed to thrive. Perhaps because of lack of food or nurturing and perhaps not. I’ve not seen anything definitive on that.
But, at that time, Rogers decided that human intervention was NOT a good idea and the cub perished.
Of course, that brought a wave of sympathy….and donations.
Now, Hope is supposedly ‘missing’. I noticed that Rogers was very careful to say it was Lilly that was seen feeding at the bait station….no mention of Hope doing it at all.
Is that because in a week or two, after a LOT of publicity and donations….Hope will miraculously be ‘found’?
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This young bear is past its maturation age. It’s more than ready to be off on its own. I suspect that’s exactly what happened.
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Lynn, why don’t you post this alleged FB site so the rest of us can use our own judgement as to whether or not this guys is even telling the truth(as opposed to pranking the bear huggers).
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I found the website in an article from yesterday ‘s startribune. com article which was a similar article to one here today.
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I’m not sure which page you mean.
There’s one titled: Lily the Black Bear that’s moderated by Rogers and staff.
The other one is: Lily: A bear with a bounty
Which to me looks like either a joke or, a protest page.
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No, I’m interested in the facebook site of the hunter who claims to have shot hope. Have you actually seen it? Or are you referencing only what Rogers claims he’s read. Personally, I believe he’s in arrears with the Bank of Credibility.
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Hugh, as far as I know, there is NO website where a hunter is actually claiming to have shot Hope. The page everyone seems to assume was made by someone who subsequently did kill her is the one titled “Lily: A bear with a bounty”
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You noticed that I like sarcastic humor?
Where did you notice that?
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I didn’t actually know it was just sarcastic humor when I posted that. It was just an assumption…based on 60+ years of living in the great northwoods.
I did a brief web search after that and came up with a Strib article from back in June that confirmed it though.
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That’s pretty much what I’m thinking. There’s no way that Hope could have denned up with Lilly and Faith this year so, most probably she struck out on her own to find a den. As far as I can tell, it’s possible that Hope could have mated “off cam” and need her own den.
What’s going on on the FB page is amusing. Roger’s staff are mouring the ‘loss’ of Hope. They are now sure she was killed. The reason they are sure is that the DNR has said they won’t release the names of any hunters that register a kill of any young female
taken in that area.
I guess that’s supposed to be proof positive that Roger’s suspicions are true.
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The DNR also said that without tags or collars, they’d have no idea which bear was which. The bottom line is if this bear is never seen again, nobody on the planet is going to know what happened to her.
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I just can’t figure out why they are immediately jumping to the conclusion that the bear was killed.
Well, other than the fact that it makes for good drama which usually translates to more interest/web page views/donations.
I haven’t seen anything about anyone seeing any blood around the bait station or any signs of a carcass being dragged from it.
So far, all that’s been said is that she’s no longer in camera range and the other bears that she had been with had been seen feeding at a bait station.
Personally, I think it’s a pretty broad stretch to just assume that means she’s dead.
Given her age and the time of year, it would seem just as likely to me that she’d be going off on her own to find a den.
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**** “Imagine being the person having to tell 23 first-graders who are now second-graders that one of the bears that they watched and saw grow up in front of them and learned how to be a friend and a big sister and how family works is gone.****
She was teaching these children a myth – Bears are exactly like people. It is shocking that this teacher was unaware of the possibility that this wild bear might die before starting on this educational gambit.
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I can’t figure out WHY she felt it necessary to tell kids that were no longer her students anything at all.
First, no one really knows what, if anything, has actually happened to the bear and secondly, I think it’s highly likely that the kids had moved on in their studies/interests and weren’t even following the bears any more.
While I can see Roger’s interest in hyping this story, I can’t figure out why a teacher would want to bring it up to the students until anything is actually known for certain.
To tell students the bear MIGHT be missing and if it is, it MIGHT have been killed just doesn’t seem like responsible teaching to me.
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I really agree with much you say Katydid. I don’t know Rogers nor his motivation, but the continued news coverage of Hope and co. is also taking advantage of public sentiment. There’s more than one party trying to cash in on this, but such is the reality of the news services… it’s what they do. That leaves us holding the bag, deciding what we should do with the info we glean from this. That’s the key here Katy. It always comes down to the wisdom of the people, for there is often precious little wisdom applied beforehand. Thank you
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I don’t know what the the teacher did, but should have prepared the children for the potential of death. That is an integral part of learning about life. Wildlife certainly are not the same as people, but they do share many of the characteristics that we do. This is important to learn why we do the things we do, and it teaches us about tough love.
It doesn’t have to humanize wildlife. I’ve spent quite a bit of time on websites featuring eagle nest web cameras in British Columbia. They have faced some of the same dilemmas we are talking about here. None the less they feature educational studies and classroom material for schools. It is possible to share the experience of wildlife without tainting neither the lesson nor the observer. It must be managed properly by credible wildlife biologists.
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While I agree with everything you’ve said, six and seven year olds should be learning life-and-death lessons at that age–and certainly not in the classroom where the parents aren’t present.
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Reckless and irresponsible. You admitted that you were “at a loss” at what to tell your students, and that they “didn’t understand” the “finality” of death.
Of course they don’t understand…..they’re first graders. You brought an issue into your classroom and didn’t have the ability to control the very-real possibility that these bears could die.
Reckless and irresponsible.
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The problem here is not the young kids in school identifying with a bear but the individuals who think that there is something wrong with it. The short coming is for those with a certain mind set to talk down those who do something or say something contrary to what they want to believe. The fault is not in the kids but in those who feel intimidated by Rogers and kids in the class room. Its about time some people grow up and look beyond their own narrow world perspective.
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Time to play the bad guy…I have never been a fan of Rogers and his methods. His trust-based method is more dangerous than he knows – or worse – ignores. Bears are wild animals, not household, cutesy pets to put on display on the internet, like a zoo or circus animal. Wild animals are going to behave like wild animals, no matter how “tame” or “trusting” of humans they may be. And like a wild animal, it can adapt to changes in it’s environment; they learn certain habits – roaming into neighborhoods, campgrounds, etc. and learned behavior is often more disastrous for the animal than the humans it impacts. Also this learned behavior is dangerous for humans as inhibitions go down. When those go down, the bear is going to stand it’s ground and as often is the case, protect what it deems to be its own. This “trust” that he tosses around, like he’s a frikkin’ ‘bear-whisperer’ would probably more like ‘tolerates’ since we’re applying human traits to a wild animal – also dangerous to do. There’s nothing to say if he upsets the bear in any way that it isn’t going to maul the crap out of him, or kill him, and then the animal is going to be put down for acting like an animal. Most bear hunters I know, hunt them for the meat, and aren’t trophy hunters. I have a hard time blaming a hunter for hunting during it’s season. How is a hunter supposed to differentiate between black bears unless they’re tagged. What Rogers fails to comprehend is that research of the natural should just be that…unobtrusive research/observing. I agree they shouldn’t be tranquilized, injected, and I’m on the fence with tagging…but they certainly shouldn’t be PET. Or touched. Your research is shot when you add humans to it. If anything, we should be mad at Rogers. No one asks the question “does Rogers interaction and ‘trust’ that he builds with the bears make them less wary of humans in general?” I think Tim Treadwell answered that question for us all.
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It’s been many decades since I was an elementary student, but I don’t recall any of my teachers putting us students into a situation where we could be “distressed” when the potential for such a tragic outcome can be easily foreseen. Just wondering…is this emotion laden atmosphere the norm in the modern elementary classroom?
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I was in second grade when the Challenger exploded. None of us were distraught. Our teachers sat us down and explained what happened.
More proof of the wimpification of today’s children.
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After you latest rant, I believe I speak for a majority of people when I say SHUT UP, LOSER!
It’s interesting that you advocate for shooting cops when the DPD just received a national award for excellence. Out of 700 cities, Duluth’s cops were chosen the best at reducing crime. Is that why you want to shoot them? Because the reduce crime? Are they bad for your business? Or are just just crap for brains stupid?
And what of the priests? Because you’ve got a few pedophiles in the mix, it’s open season on the bunch of them? Does this somehow link to your assertion that teaching kids moral, religious, values is child abuse? I’d be my guess that you are a “client” of some sort of mental health institution, and have access to the internet…….. or you need to be.
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I think you’ve misspelled your avatar’s name. Shouldn’t in really be “dude inside”. As I understand it, you can’t buy auto insurance anymore. Something about being rear-ended too many times.
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I’ve forgotten more than you’ll ever learn. And I’m supposed to care about what some snot nosed sophomoric wannabe has to say? Come back after your testicles drop, sonny. This is the big leagues.
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Apparently you do care otherwise you wouldn’t come back and post about being all butt-hurt. You’re so very predictable. As long as I keep you posting, I know that you’re thinking about me. That’s so sweet.
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Like I said in an other article thread not sure if your a troll or a tree hugger but hunting has a place in the scheme of things.
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OK, I was wrong in my assumption that she’d just walked away on her own.
Latest update from the FB Fan page:
“We never received confirmation from the MN DNR, but early this morning we heard directly from the hunter who killed Hope. We appreciate him contacting us. This is what we know.
Hope was killed on the evening of Friday the 16th. She came into his bait site alone and the hunter had no clue it was Hope. The hunter is known to us and has cooperated with us in the past. He would never shoot a collared bear and would not have deliberately shot Hope. He also is not a member of the ‘Bounty’ page and has never posted there.
There has been some confusion due to the fact we posted on Sept 17th that the family was fine. We, in fact, did not see Hope or Faith on the 17th. Sue found Lily alone and changed her GPS. Lily walked away grunting and tongue-clicking. We assumed Hope and Faith were together nearby (which is often the case) and Lily was going to them. We had no reason to believe otherwise. Sorry for any confusion this caused.”
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Well, gee whiz.
Maybe this teacher should be bringing up what happens to two year old mammals in the fall of the year?
They GO INTO HEAT.
And they do not remain at home, they go out looking for whatever male they can find, often travelling miles outside the home territory.
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These bears would have been a lot better off (and happier) if Rogers would have just left them alone.
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If Rogers really wants to do some ‘research’ into how bears ‘feel’, he should put on a bear suit and wander around in the woods during the season?
Or would that be identifying with them ‘too closely’?
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After having a conversation with the teacher in question I owe her an apology for painting her with a broad brush since I or no one else here really knows every thing she told her students.
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Ms Coleman–if you were quoted accurately you said “this is a travesty! It wasn’t done right!”
Can you not understand how people would be concerned for your honesty with students given those statements? How can you claim to allow each student and their parents the ability to come to their own conclusions when your own bias shines so bright?
We’ll never know if the bear that was shot by a hunter was actually Hope–because Mr. Rogers refuses to permanently mark his animals. Was this explained to your students? The DNR and every other outfit that studys bears have few problems fitting bears with radio collars and permanently marking them.
Did you tell your students that Mr. Rogers bears are fed heavily by Mr. Rogers and his crew along with some locals? Did you discuss with your students how likely this is to predispose a bear to think nothing of walking into a hunter’s bait station?
This hunter by all accounts–even those of Mr. Rogers himself–did nothing wrong, and was trying to AVOID shooting one of their bears.
Yet you claim–for your kids and everyone else–that it was a “travesty” and “wasn’t done right”.
I do think you need to take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself if YOU have done right by your kids.
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