by Grand Forks Herald
August 25, 2011 at 11:44 am in Grand Forks Herald
American Crystal Sugar met today with locked out union workers at Fargo’s Doublewood Inn, but no deal has been reached, according to a union representative. Continue Reading
Tags: american crystal story, updates 129 Comments »
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Well that just proves that crystal sugar had no intent on having negotiations in good faith.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 61 104
AMERICAN CRYSTAL SUGAR TO HAUL OUT ROTTEN SUGAR BEETS WHILE MINN-DAK FINISHES UP.
This is going to be the news headlines you will see come next spring.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 24 61
AMERICAN CRYSTAL SUGAR TO HAUL OUT ROTTEN SUGAR BEETS WHILE MINN-DAK FINISHES UP.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 49 97
As previously mentioned by many here, what part of “final offer” don’t folks understand? This ain’t no poker game!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 108 51
by they way their first offer was the final offer, they sent it out 2 days before the deadline so there was never a chance for the union to work it out without a lockout and they knew that.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 49 91
exactly, crystal should get back to the table as soon as possible and negotiate in good faith.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 19 51
Our communtities will change in a major way and not for the better if ACSC goes through with their plans. This has very little to do with the union and everything to do with the company’s greed. There never was a bargaining process to begin with. A few arrogant a** holes have ruined what was once a good place to work.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 55 105
I sense your frustration, but remember the “golden rule”….no, not that one, but “he who has the gold rules”…Economics 101.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 75 41
Yes, we have made those people our person Gods if that is truly what you think. sad.
Like or Dislike: 0 5
C’mon Justine, lighten up. Legend has it was the Norwegians who invented the original ‘golden rule’ which is totally ‘just’. We Polish take credit for the other.
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Adam, maybe it proves that American Crystal was willing to give the union another chance. I guess the union isn’t hurting badly enough. Supply and demand, my friend. Right now, workers are in high supply. My company has denied raises and merit increases the past two years. We’ve had layoffs and other cost reduction maneuvers. Times are hard and companies need to watch the bottom line…something our government hasn’t figured out yet. And I will challenge the next person who comments that the rich farmers are being selfish to put their nads on the line like the farmers do every year. It’s not a cake walk. The grass just “appears” to be greener on the other side.
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it’s a billion dollar company with a ceo who makes 1.9 million a year. enough said
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 49 95
With all due respect Adam, that has nothing to do with anything….ACS is a business, not a welfare government or social club.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 115 42
All that needs to be said about this is that when you talk about companies needing to watch the bottom line…the answer to that is 42% more profit this year compaired to last years RECORD PROFIT YEAR. For some reason that does not sound like times are hard for THIS company. I understand it is for alot of companies these days BUT this is NOT one of those companies. PERIOD THE END!!!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 47 93
I also forgot to mention the point that this happened under the current contract that these workers were under. The one the company feels the need to wipe away??
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 39 79
Really? Tell me how ACSC would do in the business market without price setting and sugar quotas. As a recipient of government welfare, you would think that ASC would be more apt to negotiate instead of ensuring the end of the sugar program by drawing national attention at a time when these socialist programs are being cut.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 35 59
Did you ever think that this is why ACS is doing this? Our government is in a serious financial pinch, and they are coming to the realization that some programs are going to have to be redone and some will outright have to go. Subsidies for industries that are imported (because Americans love cheap stuff) are more than likely going to be the first to go, hence the “government welfare” is gone. Now they don’t receive that money, have increased competition in the marketplace and have hundreds of union employee contracts they are locked into. All of a sudden, that profit is gone, and the jobs are gone to. Funny how union folks always seem focused on what a company did in the past, not where it is headed in the future.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 66 21
@guiltyspark: the sugar program is not a subsidy exactly and no, I do not think that is why ACS is doing this. ACS does not know the future of the sugar program. They could easily add that as a stipulation in any contract. If they were worried about the future, they would pay managers and executives less. If you want to sugarcoat (no pun intended) what a few people at the top (not even in GF) are doing to the people of the area, go ahead, but don’t pretend that you, or ACS for that matter, have a crystal ball–ACS is being greedy and trying to pay workers less by adding nonunion jobs. That is the long and short of it. They aren’t trying to penny pinch the big checks; they are trying to squeeze it out of the little guy. That is bad for the entire economy of Grand Forks. As a human being, I think it is immoral to worry about profit so much so that you neglect the well being of your neighbors.
Also, it is interesting that you assume that I am a member of a union. I am not.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 20 51
Apparently you are clueless to the responsibilities of a CEO so here it is
The CEO is responsible for the success or failure of the company. Operations, marketing, strategy, financing, creation of company culture, human resources, hiring, firing, compliance with safety regulations, sales.
With that being said the salary of a CEO seems reasonable.
As far as the greed of the farmers get real people. This is a business. Nowhere does your contract allow for profit sharing. You get the wage agreed on when you were hired. What have you done to get this increase you are crying about? Have you further educated yourself for your job? Have you brought efficiencies to the work place? You want more money get a better education and get a different job or how about this one go get a business loan open a business and hire people. Then you can profit share with your employees.
The crying about making a wage of what $20.00 per hour is getting old. The people that work there should be happy they had this opportunity considering the wage scale in ND. The healthcare plan that they have present to you see more than acceptable.
The Union doesn’t have the strong hold it needs in a right to work State to get a company to meet its demands. You are already seeing the effects with the lock out. They can wait as long as it takes. How long before your unemployment runs out for those who get it and for those who don’t how far will your strike pay (if you get it since this is not a strike but a lock out) take you before that is gone to and you are living off your savings. How long before you have to go get another job to support your family, then welcome to the world where you don’t get that type of wage and you would be lucky to get healthcare benefits.
Eventually all things come to an end. So your Union will either see that this has to end they have to give a little to get a little or you will watch the first Union being broken. It will set a presidency for the future of Unions in the State of North Dakota a right to work State.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 85 33
Crystal sugar is based in minnesota.
Hot debate. What do you think? 26 13
This company only has a small window to process this crop. And it’s not as small as they contend it is. Already they concede it’s 22 ton per acre. That times 480,000 acres equals 10,560,000 tons. And they have initially guessed low for a number of years now.
They don’t have months to train people. They only have months to complete the entire process at full throttle. They are taking a huge risk of having to haul them out after May 15,2012 I would say we won’t have to wait much longer and they will be begging us to come back.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 22 53
Con, you did a good job with the numbers and I follow most of your logic…except the “begging” part.
You are wrong about this; NOBODY ever is irreplaceable in ANYTHING including the POPE. ASC can and will prosper with or without you and your colleagues. It’s been a ‘new world’ out there for a long time, better get with it or become a cloud of dust.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 61 18
God is responsible for the record crops. The government is responsible for the sugar climate. Can you tell me exactly which conditions the current CEO established to make Crystal Sugar more profitable?
Hot debate. What do you think? 25 29
Like it or not Justine, ACS is doing exactly that now by reducing their largest controllable business expense (payroll).
Their future revenues will be dropping like a rock when “supports” of ALL kinds disappear (real soon). Unions cannot and will not be tolerated if ASC is to survive near-to-long term.
Hot debate. What do you think? 29 22
Richard: ACS does not know if or when that will happen. They are just taking advantage because they can. If they wanted to put a clause in the contract in the event of legislative changes they could but they are not doing that. They are opting to break the union pure and simple.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 15 28
@ Richard: I asked what HAS he done. Not what kind of greedy, immoral things he is doing now. Yeah, he probably wants a bigger paycheck, but could care less about our community. Say goodbye to all of those hardworking folks when they get better jobs in Fargo. What will GF get in return? What was it that a consultant said a few years ago–the future of GF might be poorly educated immigrants. People who don’t speak English. Yep, that will be great. They’ll be a total drag on our resources in education, social services. Can’t wait.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 11 26
yep maybe joan will figure out where ACS is based out of and learn a lil more of what states are right to work and have unions,,,,even teachers who work for schools are union here..the sugar farmers are a union also..to grow sugar is a closed shop with ACS, the farmers are just subsidized to bad the employees arent….time to BOYCOTT AMERICAN CRYSTAL SUGAR products and open up free trade in our right to work states.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 11 28
How can you compare a teacher or a police officer to your job this shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence. Teachers have an education and teach your children. Police officers put their lives on the line. That is like comparing apples and oranges.
You are screaming free trade but really you don’t even know what that is. Free Trade is yet another program that allows goods that qualifies under the Naphtha Free Trade Agreement to enter into the United States duty free from Canada and Mexico.
Sugar can be imported from other countries but when the quota is full the quota is full. Think ahead people. If the quota that is currently in place is removed and the sugar is allowed to flow freely into the United States our market will be flooded. The cost of sugar will be forced down and you will be out of a job. Learn about the farm bill and the government protections of commodities.
No one is jealous of what you make it’s the greed that is what is appalling. You make a very decent wage as it stands. The company was willing to give you an increase wasn’t good enough. You expect a company to have to insurance policies in place. One for you and one for company people. With the rising cost of health insurance you have to expect that you will have to pay. It’s common in the work place to have an 80/20 split. Don’t want drug testing, why the heck not. It’s a safety factor. I cannot see it being a good thing that people may come to work on drugs and alcohol and hurt himself or herself or someone else.
I can understand about contract language and fear of losing your job but really you already have lost your job so you need to go back to the table with your Union Reps have them pull their head out of the hole it’s stuck in an negotiate on behalf of you the worker. Remember you have to give a little to get a little.
On this thread from your supporters I have read how much the farmers are making and the CEO’s are making and not sharing. Again lets reiterate this is a business. You are hired to do a job at a certain wage. Your contract didn’t say profit sharing. They aren’t being greedy they are being sensible business people.
Unions originated to ensure that the common person was paid fairly for their jobs, given a safe work area, and treated fairly. You people have gone beyond that and joined the growing trend of the privileged generation.
On to your right to work state. For the union to have the upper hand, the power they need to be able to halt production. That’s just not happening here if you haven’t noticed. They will have some ups and downs but I will tell you everyone and I repeat everyone is replaceable. They will get the plant up and running and will succeed. They will have hiccups on the way but they will process the beets and life will go on.
As for people hoping that they lose the contract to Hershey. Do you really think they care about your labor issues? Surprise no they don’t. As long as they get what they need they are good.
Lets address socialism. If you really had that going on the government would order you back to work and you wouldn’t have a choice. So really there is no socialist factor in this scenario.
Think about what you are doing and what you really want. You and your union is in control if you will continue to work for American Crystal. You may just fight yourself out of a job.
Like or Dislike: 19 7
Joan your way out in left field…its fun to read your posts
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 4 14
The average CEO with under 2,000 employees makes up to $400,000/yr. That is a little less that Dave Berg made 3 years ago. The average CEO that manages 5,000 employees makes about $500,000/yr.
I have yet to hear the union crying about the increase or even the paying more in benefits. Of course that would be on a negotiation table, but the real issue is clearly the contract wording.
Is it a little bit of jealousy that makes people think that union workers should make less?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 14 24
Whoo, this doesn’t prove that. It means ACS wants to test the waters, to see if we’ve “suffered” enough to accept their degrading contract. No, we’re not. O.k., your company has seen denied raises and merit increases, downsizing, layoffs, and other cost reduction issues. But OUR company is not in that boat, or the same waters. The farmers have various insurances against bad crops, or a bad harvest. True, that might not cover what they would’ve gotten with a Bumper Crop, but we have a Sugar Program that, in the event of a less then record crop, could influence the sale of the crop they DO harvest and process. Now, not everything in the contract was a bad thing. I am all for the drug testing for instance (right now it’s only when you get hired, and then if there is just cause). But there ARE some things in that contract that make me cringe. Ok, health care needs to change. That may be true. Our last contract we took a hit in several areas, in order to HAVE that health care coverage that we had. But the numbers they are saying aren’t the numbers we’d be paying, AND it states in the contract, the premiums and deductible could change “from time to time”, which means I can pay X dollars in January, and then XX more dollars in February. among other issues.
And again, this company isn’t going downhill, as shown by the generous salary increases going around. I got my Our Family Turkey, and 8 lbs. of sugar, divided up over Thanksgiving and Christmas.
All in all, the company hasn’t been a bad company to work for. You got a decent pay for hard work, sometimes long hours, working under extreme conditions. Switching rail cars in the yard in the middle of a blizzard with 0 visibility for over 2 hours is NOT fun. Running the outside skip in a blizzard 12 hours, with no relief, is NOT fun. Fixing the North Clarifier and pumping in hot water to get the ice off the arms for 12 hours in the middle of winter with no relief, is NOT fun. And then doing it a day later to the South Clarifier, same hours, same conditions. And, and, and. I could go on with a list of things where the worker put up and shut up, rather then whine and make a scene. for these events, which occur daily, we have a decent, not extravagant wage, and health benefits which make us feel a little safer having to do some of the things we do.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 51 76
That sounds a lot harder than sitting in an air conditioned John Deere listening to an expensive stereo system and swinging by the mail box to pick up your government subside (welfare) check. Of course if your a republican that makes it ok. Does greedy hypocrites fit here?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 23 64
Well spoken! This is the BEST comment that has ever been written! Yes, they do put there nads and the line and no union member would ever do that!!!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 24 63
frmrsdatter: you have obviously never been inside one of these factories. My husband works as a jourenymen pipefitter in one of the factories and he has put his life on the line several times in the past 32 years.
You would start to cry if someone asked you to crawl into some of the areas of the factory he has been in with a torch in his hand welding in temperatures that you could never tolerate.
Typical farmer out of touch with what really goes on inside one of these factories.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 42 70
Just what is a typical farmer? I’ve watched a farmer crawl into the guts of a combine after dark with nothing more than a flash light and a welding torch.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 61 8
Hope he didn’t light that torch.
Hot debate. What do you think? 15 17
Trained sugar workers are in short supply. You don’t hire someone off the street,show them a video, and expect to run a sugar refinery. Just one letdown in any of the many parts of the process and all you have is crap. But ACS corporate office is so out of touch with the factories that they probably believe they can. This is what happens when the mangement has no process experience. I can already see the headlines next spring. AMERICAN CRYSTAL HAULS OUT ROTTEN SUGAR BEETS. MINN-DAK FINISHES UP.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 36 73
Really? Where did you get your sugar refining degree? From what has been reported in the news, and what many of you have said yourself, the majority of the work force is blue collar labor, sorry, but when you have millions of people unemployed around the country, you can probably find another welder, electrician, plumber etc looking for a job that wouldn’t have a problem with $20 an hour and 92% of their healthcare paid for.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 69 28
I got my sugar refining degree with 40 years of hands on hard work. If you think you can just walk off the street and make sugar you are a bigger clown than the ones in our corporate office right now. Sure you can pick up electricians welders and plumbers but they don’t make sugar. They keep our machinery running.
I can already see the headlines:
AMERICAN CRYSTAL HAULS OUT SUGARBEETS WHILE MINN-DAK FINISHES UP.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 21 47
So when you started day 1, you were the end all be all of sugar making? Please. If you were smart enough to figure it out, there is probably others just as capable of it. Everyone is replaceable.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 56 19
WHOO, NICE COMMENTS, BUT WHILE YOU DEFEND THIS STUFF! Can you explain why the company gave 3 times their wage raises, and giant bonus’s? Yea, they are hurting, come on!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 24 57
It seems correct to say that the union was busted.. Adam said that they never intended to reach a settlement.. I will follow up on what Con Me Not said about thee rotten beets.. And I will bet that it will become the news in the spring..
I already know that the people who worked at the plant are well seasoned people who know what they were doing to run the plant smoothly.. And accidents were few and in-between.. I don’t know the training level these new people received.. But I do know untrained person are the ones who are the first people who can get injured.. I expect injuries this winter with those new people.. I don’t wish that to the new people.. But I do wish that Crystal Sugar has so many problems this season that the campaign newbies screw up everything and Adam’s thoughts are true.. Tons of rotten beets…
I have many friends who work there.. I wonder how they will be able to pay their bills in the coming months…. I hope someone will notice my next statement..
I think that everyone in the East Grand Forks and Grand Forks area should boycott all the products made by Crystal Sugar that are on the shelves in all Hugo’s stores and all other stores is the area.. No more supporting the company who screwed our friends.. Just buy another bag of sugar from a different company..
For my last wish.. I wish they have a very bad campaign.. And that includes the farmers who knew that they could have had a say so on who processes their beets..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 42 90
A smaller crop this year will give Crystal more wiggle room than most years tho. That will allow the plants to get by with a few newbie mistakes.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 57 22
and less money to the farmer dakota boy…way less
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 24 40
Did you call them RATS?
Hot debate. What do you think? 29 15
Not true, you’re looking at this wrong. A Bumper Crop would allow them more mistakes. A smaller crop means having to be more exact in your analysis of sugar content, it means less sugar hitting the floor (scrolls DO break sometimes, it isn’t always human error). It means that NOW is when you want the experience behind the wheel, to get the most our of what you have. In my opinion at least. This isn’t a practice year, they don’t get to start over if they don’t get it right.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 46 21
Oh Eddie.. I’m so upset on how they treat our people… A boycott on the products can send a clear signal that both of our communities are not happy with Crystal crap..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 25 61
Rick, nor sure if I’m reading your first sentence right. Are you thinking thinks the Company never intended to reach an agreement, or the Union? As it was the company. Did they break the Union? No. We’re still here. And we’ll still be here when their factories go downhill for using substandard labor. Yes, the Supervisors are doing their best to bring them up to speed, but there is only so much you can teach someone at one time, they can only REALLY start learning once the machines are running, and they can’t be everywhere at once watching everyone. From what we’ve seen, just them running the 25% of the factory that they have been to load the sugar made from the last campaign into rail cars, this plan of theirs is destined to fail, and fail miserably. Am I happy about that? No, not really, honest. ACS is, other then during a contract negotiation year, a decent company to work for. The management that we deal with can be hard, but they are fair, and if you do your job, they leave you alone. If you slack, they are sure to let you know. Like anywhere else in the world. I’m unhappy because when we DO come back, and I think one day we will, we will not only have to clean up the messes that they allowed be created, but there will also be a gigantic rift in what was normally good relations between the working class and management, and that will take a long time for that rift to fill in. So it’s sad, because it’s at THAT level of management, that had nothing to do with these negotiations, but they will feel the anger, the mistrust, and all the other things that follow. Not the higher management that really deserves to see the disaster that they created.
Hot debate. What do you think? 45 49
Hey, has anyone seen that huge inflatable rat that is set up right outside the EGF plant entrance? Are there similar inflatables set up at other locations?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 51 15
Rick i agree with this statement you posted and i am hearing it in health facitlites where i work………”I think that everyone in the East Grand Forks and Grand Forks area should boycott all the products made by Crystal Sugar that are on the shelves in all Hugo’s stores and all other stores is the area.. No more supporting the company who screwed our friends.and just locks out people . Just buy another bag of sugar from a different company..”
There is alot to be said of cane sugar….good job to all you ACS workers for supporting the farm bills and going back to the tables in good faith…a good wake up call from Mr Berg and his speaker Mr. Ingulsrud who i hear has never set foot in a a factory…it didnt take much to figure that out by watching him on the news….
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 44 59
They have been in the factories before, that is just heresay. Mr. Berg was in our factory back in May or June I think it was. But if you mean on a normal, day to day or weekly basis, no, they usually don’t come down to the factories.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 24
As far as I think.. I think Crystal Sugar will loose the support of our communities.. Eddie? I just don’t think it is fair to use this community to fine tune the plant and dump them after the crews fine honed to jump into action not to shut the line down.. The old crew knows how get this done.. I still seek failure to the sugar hut..
Don’t forget to get the word out to boycott Crystals products.. That should make a statement on both sides of the river..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 31 60
You should really get your facts right before posting.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 9 33
Everyone I know is buying C & H. I understand Hershey corporation is now concerned about buying sugar from ACS.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 29 48
I can’t help but think that wishing or hoping that Hershey’s pulls the contract isn’t a good thing for the future. I guess to me i see it as a negative if they do. It seems that some of you hope they lose that contract. I may be wrong but i don’t really think that Hershey’s cares if it is the union workers or the replacement workers who make the suger…hence, once you all go back to work…the contract will still be gone. What’s that saying….Be careful what you wish for?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 26 4
ah, again – its not about the money but the wording, yet the union can’t get wording to the table to counter the offer… so they point fingers – “We want to meet again” before this meeting is even over, because (union) wants it to fail?
Don’t forget (union) your representatives are still drawing a paycheck while they represent what they call “your best interest”.
Whats with arguing about the drug testing (substance abuse)??? does union intend to “Dope it up” and go to work???
Health care costs money, sorry guys.
I agree with the boycott, only the timing i disagree. I will quit buying after you (union) settle with your company as I’ve seen and heard the true definition of “poor sport”
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 68 30
You should really get your facts right before posting. The union is not against drug testing and in fact encourages it.
Hot debate. What do you think? 30 35
Its amazing how propaganda, and wrong non-facts crap gets spewed (northdakotabride) while hiding behind a keyboard with a screen name! Unions have always pushed for drug testing genius. The safety part of the job has always been priority one!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 25 41
Con Me Not:
This was the qoute from the article. Please explain further if you can…it seems from this qoute that the company and the union may not completely agree regarding the substance abuse policy.
“We came to the table in good faith with proposals that addressed many of the company’s concerns including changes to health coverage and expanding upon the company’s substance abuse policy,” said John Riskey
What is the policy now? Do you have to test directly on the spot if you are suspected of using drugs or being under the influence on the job? How many chances do you get? I am asking because i know some jobs that have a zero tolerance…test on the spot policy and others where you are given the option to leave the shift without pay and test at a later date.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 20 3
There is something to say about union greed.. I do understand that the higher wage earners has all their toys to bankroll in what their monthly income has to pay for their toys.. The wages are gone..
The wallops :
Really hard working families who tried to go beyond their means really thought that the cash cow will continue to pay the bank loans.. But not this time.. The best I can see it that a few of the workers will loose their homes, repo cars, TV’s and take people to social services after they lost it all.. Crystal Sugar will be remembered for what fate they created.. People will remember what Crystal Sugar created..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 19 45
It’s not really negotiating when the same tired old corporate offer is trotted out again. As I understand it, the union started by saying “drop the language” then we will talk about health care. That language is obviously pretty important to Crystal Sugar.
It’s becoming clear to me that ACSC doesn’t want a contract.
Hot debate. What do you think? 34 41
It’s was clear to me even before the vote on the final offer that ACS doesn’t want a union contract. What part of that language in the final contract offer don’t people understand? I repeat… ACS wrote union busting into the contract.
Hot debate. What do you think? 27 35
What I’d like to know is how reasonable is it for ACS to use temporary workers forever. Surely they can’t expect that these people who came from who knows where to do temporary work will just all agree to stay on the job. It seems that nobody talks about what these people are actually being taught about operations and if they are even doing anything other than pushing a broom. If they are just place holders, then it seems that ACS maybe expects they will get union workers back in place? Is that possible and does that mean ACS is willing to make concessions eventually?
Hot debate. What do you think? 22 26
Well, has anyone considered that if they stay too long, they may stay forever.
Hot debate. What do you think? 19 11
Nd mill should show everyone what can happen! Of coarse everyone hates the so called socialism. But is it the socialism that fox news try’s to teach you? Taking care of the less fortunate is beneficial for everyone!(Taking care of employees that helped make you profitable) I know start the spewing, but think of one example, the NFL! There is no team left behind, the money is shared with the less revenue making teams, which keeps them competitive. Socialism at its real definition! If you didn’t know the NFL, it is the most profitable business in the world, HUUUUMMMMM?????????????????
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 14 41
Technically, the NFL is a collection of owners, much like a corporation. The corporation has “stores” scattered throughout the US to maximize it’s coverage and amount of revenue pulled in. In essence, the NFL is nothing like socialism. The Wal-Mart store in Fargo probably doesn’t make as much money as one in Los Angeles, yet the money goes into the same pot and back out to smaller market stores. Is Wal-Mart socialism in your flawed economic model, and example of socialism?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 25 8
guiltyspark: Walmart is not a like the NFL. The NFL is not socialist. Agreed. But do you see what Tom Hanks id trying to say? He is saying that the cooperative does better because they know they can be more successful if everyone is successful. The same applies for most enterprises. Right now, we are not in a recession because of low consumer confidence, as so many entertainment new suggest, we are in a recession because salaries have gone down and the credit was turned off. You can’t suck blood from a turnip and if only a few people hoard all of the money there is no more money to spend. Thus, everyone is less successful than they could be if money was spread around.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 14 26
quiltyspark, WHAT, the NFL is like Walmart chains? If I have to explain the difference between NFL teams, each being owned by totally different people, and Walmart stores across the world being owned by the same people, but managed by different people, than I give up on an uneducated child like you…..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 20
Maybe you really don’t have a real understanding of how the NFL works. The owner’s of the NFL teams vote on what rules will be followed and how profits will be allocated, much like, dun dun dun, an executive board, divvying out profit shares to the shareholders. But by all means, keep referring to me as an uneducated child. Your reach of a Socialistic model in comparison to the NFL loses the small amount of water it could hold when you understand the reasoning behind it. The profit sharing model was brought about because of the salary caps of the teams to ensure competitiveness of the teams. Unlike Baseball, where the large markets also control the pennant races year, after year, after year. That competitiveness of the league sir, is why the NFL is a billion dollar industry. Oh, and if you are going to be throwing stones, like uneducated child around, you should probably check your grammar prior.
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Just to clarify: So, the union representative misspoke when he said the substance abuse policy is one of the changes being contended?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 39 6
Mark my words: The union will not agree to a contract that includes random drug testing. This has always been a deal breaker with this union.
Hot debate. What do you think? 31 26
i work for acsc and i’ll take a drug test every day of the week for all i care. If your on drugs you shouldn’t be working anywhere. Drug testing is not an issue
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 35 15
I just looked at the Crystal offer online, and the only reference to drug testing states “applicable state law will apply in the future if it requires a practice or procedure more stringent than current. ..” Is that one of the sticking points?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 8
No, you need to get a copy of the last contract and compare it to the new one and you’ll see some big changes.
Hot debate. What do you think? 15 24
no that is not the sticking point, drug testing is not the issue, no idea were you all got that from
Like or Dislike: 13 9
republican Sen John Hoeven states there a lots of jobs in North Dakota. If that were true then I think a lot of these workers would be looking for something else. I wouldn’t blame all the ACS workers for finding other work and letting ACS go find some slave labor. Sure hope they don’t get even more greedy and hire illegal cheap labor. Think we better keep a good eye on them.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 22 46
I am sure many ACS people are already working other jobs until the negotiations resume.
Hot debate. What do you think? 25 17
I decided do things the ACSC way. When my car wasn’t running so good, I fired my mechanic and paid this bum looking type to fix it for me. I paid him three times the price of my regular mechanic.
The car don’t run at all now but sure looks good sitting in my driveway
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 27 56
That is funny!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 24 34
Please explain how it is different in regards to drug testing.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 26 8
There already was an alcohol and drug testing policy. The “final offer” said that it would be compliant with state law. It has nothing to do with anything. Their policy already was compliant with state law.
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This might be a little off topic but I think if the American worker is ever going to be valued again we need to get rid of all the illegals that are in the US. Then employers would actually start seeing the value of good employees.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 24 8
Realist, thanks for a git-back. Realistically I think many gov’t folks know the bleak future of “supports” of any kind, for any commodity in this country, they’re just afraid to say it….a little CYA if you will.
I wish we weren’t in such a gloom n’ doom economy world wide and especially in the USA, but facts are facts. Unions continue dropping over the cliff, we just can’t afford them anymore.
It is a fact, beet supports will be gone, and the union will be gone at ACS….just a matter of time. At best workers should accept that last offer, it will give them a little more time….and fire that union ASAP….they are obsolete.
Hot debate. What do you think? 32 18
Why do we just keep saying that the worker deserves less in this country? We have a country rich in resources and yet so many people think we are poor. The reality is that some people hoard the resources. If people in America don’t start sticking up for each other, it won’t just be unions that are obsolete, it will be America. Our government, unlike that of many EU countries has chosen to sell out the worker, allow companies to have monstrous tax cuts while raising fees and taxes on the poor and middle class, cut subsidies to farms, small-businesses, education and the poor. All the while, we continue to tell hard-working Americans that they deserve less. Michelle Bachmann thinks that in order for the US to complete on a global market, the minimum wage in America should be $2/hour. When does the middle class stop taking the beating? When do we stop telling Americans that they are worth less? Come on, if this were your job, would you want to take less? No.
Hot debate. What do you think? 19 21
When will this country stop spending beyond its means. We would not have nearly as many people in the situation they are in if they spent the money they earn instead of spent the money they wish they earned.
Should American workers be paid more? Yes and no. Some make more than then deserve and others don’t make nearly what they deserve.
But until we as a country start living within our means workers will never have the upper hand becuase they can’t afford to wait it out and ask for more.
Workers can and should expect more but they also need to be willing to put in what it takes to get it. My parents taught me some important lessons growing up including….the world doesn’t owe you anything and if you want something you need to be willing to work for it and earn it on your own and remember that there are many people out there who are doing the same things you are for the same job so you need to make yourself better and work harder.
Hot debate. What do you think? 22 8
My parents taught me to do onto others as I’d have done onto me. Unions were formed because at some point the greed of corporations and wealthy individuals became so disgusting that people stopped believing that they were actually worth what they were given. What is that old saying about standing up for others before there is no one to stand up for you?
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The union president, John Riskey, mentioned the company’s substance abuse policy in a statement he issued on 8/25 after talks broke down. He said the union was coming up with proposals that address the company’s concerns.
Like or Dislike: 8 8
Hello, I’ve read all kinds of opinions about the lockout at American Crystal Sugar. I’ve worked there for six years, in the plant doing the jobs – sometimes two at the same time because they cannot get the help they need. If anyone thinks that we make too much money for what we do, please go put in an application at the plant. They will be more than willing to put you through the orientation that new hires have to endure. Then you can work in the lime, pulp, mud or any of a number of like jobs that are there until you can get a permanent job. Not a full time job but a permanent job. Just because we are union workers does not mean that we are lazy and do not want to work. it’s just the opposite, we have to put in 12 to 16 hours a day most days because they do not have enough workers as they have eliminated the person that does the job and hand it off to someone that is doing one or two already. When you give your opinion please remember that it is your neighbors, family, friends or just the great people in North Dakota that work in those plants. If you think It’s right to have a Corporation make millions of dollars and not give a little to the people that make that money for them, then when you see your friends, neighbors, or relations sell their homes, move to another state to get a fair wage, You should tell them, to their faces before they drive away to their new jobs, that they made too much money.
Hot debate. What do you think? 20 24
Another way of looking at this Rosie (always loved that name) is in TODAY’S world it’s the union millionaires who are ripping off the American worker.
Unions are the ones mostly responsible for sending our jobs out-of-country.
Hot debate. What do you think? 23 15
Richard, Its not the union millionaire that are ripping off the people of this state, its the Big millionaire Farmers and Excetives of American Crystal that want to rip off there friends,family,neighbors and good people of North Dakota, and since they have no relations involved in this they do not care about anything they do to us.
Hot debate. What do you think? 14 22
Just one question Rosie, have you or a family member ever gotten a job from a poor person?
Richard, I really do not know what the financial situation of the people that I’ve worked for. But that’s beside the point that I’m trying to make here, which is the people that work for the employer and make the millions for them should expect a decent wage. As a company’s fortunes Wax and Wane, the employees should expect to be similarly affected.
Like or Dislike: 11 18
You know what, richard? You should just boycott all goods or services provided by union workers. Have a problem and need to call the police? Don’t. They’re union. Have a fire and need the fire department? Don’t call them. They’re union. Ever need to be treated by a nurse? They are union. Do you have kids that go to school? Teachers have a union, as do administrators. Ever eat General Mills cereal, use Dakota Maid flour, anything by Kraft, Keebler, Pepsi, Nestle, Dannon? They are all made by union workers. Ever had anything delivered by UPS or DHL? They are union. Have you ever taken a plane ride? The pilots are union, the stewardesses are union and the air-traffic controllers are union. For God’s sake, don’t ever own a domestic car, it’s made by union workers. These are just a few examples. I am not a member of a union, as apparently you are not, but because of unions we have rights in our jobs. These include vacation, sick leave, overtime and no child labor. Maybe you would like to go back to the US before unions, but I wouldn’t.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 13 23
You make some good points “concerned’….but please consider… those airlines are really making a lot of money aren’t they? Their unions have long been neutered…google the average wage/benefits of a pilot.
Teacher’s unions are FINALLY understanding they are being diminished i.e. Wisconsin. Oh, and Chrysler moving 90%+ of their production to Mexico…GM and Ford doing the same….I could go on, but I’ve made my point…only an opinion.
I guess returning to ‘topic’ the ACS union folks have to ask just one question ‘what has my union done for me lately except lose my job’.
You haven’t made a single point. There are 16.8 million union members in this country. I know that isn’t close to all the workers in the US. I only listed a few examples. If you do away with Unions, our rights will start going with them. I don’t understand why you would want a few people to make millions and the workers on whose backs those millions were made get their rights and job security taken away. Let’s not forget, richard, the union didn’t lose their jobs, ACS locked them out. ACS didn’t negotiate AT ALL.
Hot debate. What do you think? 14 20
I respect your comments ‘concerned’…but what is there to negotiate? ACS made their final offer. The union rejected it = workers lost their jobs…no mystery here….end of story.
Hot debate. What do you think? 20 14
They only made ONE offer. There WAS no negotiating. Their “final offer” was their ONLY offer. End of story.
Hot debate. What do you think? 16 16
farmers have union to Rich
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Yer cuttin’ into my three olive-martini time ‘concerned’,….later.
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Richard I hope you some day experience just what your defending against others. You truly have no idea what you are talking about! Just repeating what Rush told you…..LOL
All these companies that you speak of that go out of country would have made 50% profits with all UNION workers in the USA! Imagine the economy that would produce! This study was done by a independent firm spoken about on the Bill Maher show, NOT done by the Bill Maher show! Keep defending this way of thinking and some day you will regret it! Why? Because the country has already been there before in time. But hey, you may get what you want, hope your children and grandchildren are as lucky or blessed as you, (which is not the norm across this country) because if not they are going to be the future slaves because of people like YOU…….
Hot debate. What do you think? 12 21
You are kind of a nasty person ‘Tom Hanks’.
Hot debate. What do you think? 17 13
Does anyone know what happened in the EGF factory with that explosion they could hear outside and if anyone got hurt?
Like or Dislike: 12 9
My husband said they blew a white sugar pan which was being operated by a member of the management team.
Like or Dislike: 12 7
I just received a letter today from Brian Ingulsrud about the wage and healthcare Specifics.
In this letter he repeatedly stated that the average paid employee is being paid (20.55/hr). Well if this is so then all the letters he wrote to the paper defending the bad contract they wanted the union employees to sign saying they were being paid 50,000 a year can not possibly be true. if you take 20.55 and times it by 2080 which is the standard working hours in a year you would come up with 42,744 gross pay. and if you believe that a deduction of approximately 1600 that we pay now is raised to 4,325 plus out of pocket 4,800 and our pay would be the same then i think he has his figures incorrect AGAIN.
Like or Dislike: 11 14
Did you add in the benefit that you get in health care and retirement. When you are figuring your compensation this is usually included as a package. The last job i took was a pay cut but when i figured in better health care and the retirement plan i came out ahead since my family was able to pay less into health care and they were matching more in retirement. The total benefit package was better when you consider all aspects not just the wage.
Also you said in a early post that you all work long hours so i am assuming that means you are getting overtime and not just straight pay all year long.
Like or Dislike: 15 6
jordan, I was not talking about benefits I was speaking of wage only. they have repeatedly said the average Wage is 50,000 a person but the figures do not add up, and if I did add the benefit then they say the average wage is 75,000, so no matter how you put it the figures do not add up.
Like or Dislike: 13 12
Yeah, my heart is breaking for you poor souls earning $20.55/hour, when by your own words, many of the jobs are unskilled labor. I spent 4 years, well 3 1/2 because I kicked it down, in college to earn less than that. Yep, I agree it’s not fair. If you are so concerned about your neighbors, like you want the rest of us to be, we should dock your pay another $5/hour to pay to people that have to live off from $10/hour or less working at gas stations, or serving your food in restaurants, or driving the elderly around on the bus. Oh wait, sorry. Forgot this was supposed to be the feel sorry for the ACS union members who turned down $42,000 a year plus over 90% of their health care paid for.
Hot debate. What do you think? 16 15
guiltyspark, this is not a feel sorry for union workers at all,and it seems that you have missed all the other statements that were said about the wage and healthcare. I work at ACS and do not like many people there make 20 dollars a hour,and ACS only pays 80 percent of the health care we pay the rest. You must be in Corporate to be so bitter about this,3 and a half years means to me you did not finish,maybe that should be your pripority not knocking down hard working people.As I said before if you or anyone thinks we have it easy PLEASE go and apply for a job.
Haha. Obviously you did not understand what “kicking it down” meant. I finished a 4 year Bachelors degree in 3 1/2 because, I did the math and figured that if I pushed myself, it would end up costing less taking the extra credits each semester than having to pay for another semester of tuition. Sorry, I got the $20.55 average salary from your own stated post. I realize that not every worker in the union will receive that kind of money, but it is a stated average by your own accord. I don’t believe I ever said you had it easy, others may have. But when you look at the facts of the matter, millions of people are out of work in the US, and you are squabbling over a 17% raise, (80% of your health care covered according to you), and AVERAGE salary of $20.55/hour I find it hard to have the sympathy for you that you’re looking for from everyone, over some wording that doesn’t guarantee you a job.
One more thing, I need clarification. I’ve seen several people post that the problem is wording in the contract about bringing in replacement workers (or contracting out), while at times many of you have said that these “transient” workers (as you refer to them) can’t do the job because it takes years of experience. Well which one is it? Is it that this factory can be run by anyone that comes off the street, because that’s what you state your fear is, that you will all be replaced by people off the street, or is it that the factory is difficult enough to run that you need people with experience in the matter? Because if it really, truly is that difficult to run, then you shouldn’t have to worry about being replaced because it would cost ACS to much money in training of people to do it.
Like or Dislike: 2 0
Once again, the average wage is not 20.55/hr and there are NO unskilled union workers at ACS. They have on-site training, many have to take classes at technical schools and they ALL have to take tests and pass them to be able to do their jobs. The only unskilled workers are the ones who are in the factory right now.
Like or Dislike: 11 12
Do you know the definition of unskilled? I worked for a grocery store in high school, I had on site training there, did that make me a skilled worker? Your description of what it takes to work there is the very definition of unskilled. You can acquire the skills capable of performing the job, after you have been hired for said job. A skilled worker, is someone who must possess the capabilities and training prior to starting a job, ie, an accountant, doctor, lawyer, teacher, to some degree police officers.
What does Bergs salary come too per hour??? Do the math for him and his minions if you want to see off the chart greed.
Like or Dislike: 6 5
Bergs salary comes to 2000 per hour plus approximately 2 million in compensation, so in my books that adds up to approximately 4 million a year. WOW do he have to worry about retirement and insurance when he retires, especially when thy want to give the people of ACS a big .25 cent raise a year towards retirement.
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Please excuse the gramma I meant to say does he
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Unions are just that Joan, Unions no matter who joins and what company…..and you should look up Hersheys track record for what they did to their employees….maybe you need to read
Like or Dislike: 6 12
Well at least you have been Entertained although I am not has far off as you might think. Bottom line is your still out of a job and your union is failing to represent you. Good luck to all of you.
Like or Dislike: 10 5
I was merely asking becuase the articles i read the company was qouting was what the average compensation was not what the wages were. Compensation and wage mean two different things to me.
Also I believe that guiltyspark meant that he finished a 4 year degree in 3 1/2 years becuase he pushed himself to finish it early, not that he did not finish his degree.
Like or Dislike: 10 4
Jordan, I was only stating the facts on wage not compensation, and yes they are two different thing.
Rosie when you say compensation, I assume you mean health benefits, retirement, sick leave, etc. ?
If so, is your “compensation” part of your wage?
I get tired of the same old excuse, that this whole thing is “about money” it is not for the 20th time. Its about the lawyer wording that in fact you sign a contract for you to be replaced later for no wrongful doing of the employee! So which one of you two die-hard union bashers would sign a contract like this? Or do you think its ok for a corp to replace an employee when they want to, with no just cause? Hope that thinking doesn’t come calling on you and your job someday!
Like or Dislike: 11 16
For the umpteenth time, there are NO guarantees in life, especially employment; let’s get real-world here!…my nasty friend.
Oh there is one guarantee in life. If republicans have their way the gap between Corporate top dogs and workers compensation will continue to grow. Just how far will they take it? Remember the French Revolution?
Like or Dislike: 6 9
It’s astonishing how some of the richest people in the world are Democrats. You’d think they’d all be Republican by the way Jeff talks. Does your question regarding the French Revolution incline to ask if I remember it from History class, or do I personally remember it taking place like you do, Jeff?
Anyone care to bash the teachers union? Odd that they only include the wages in their coverage of that story, not benefits or hours worked in a year, or job security. Another question, does ACS include the amount spent on unemployment insurance in their “compensation” amounts?
Around the country teachers have been in a lay-off and fired mode for a long time. Most states and school districts have been broke a long time and it’ll only get worse; ND and SD are exceptions so far because they’re more fiscally sound.
Teachers job outlook is as bad as former ACS workers….maybe a little more bleak.
Like or Dislike: 9 5
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