by Grand Forks Herald
May 3, 2011 at 3:44 pm in Grand Forks Herald
UPDATED: 8:43 P.M.Grand Forks’ library sales tax has 2,348 “yes” votes and 3,847 “no” votes with all but one of 26 precincts reporting, including absentee ballots. Continue Reading
Tags: GF and EGF, GF City Hall, gf public library, taxes, updates 71 Comments »
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Great news!!! The people have spoken and it wasn’t even close.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 75 227
did the crystal ball tell you that? Buffalo.. or are you trying to Buffalo?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 18 30
Less than 7000 votes total. That’s terrible no matter what side you’re on.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 72 9
very good point. Whether you were for or against, that leaves 10′s of thousands that couldnt be bothered to vote.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 55 197
How come your votes don’t never go anywhere? You must be a GOP
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 21 31
Liberals spend too much time trying to hide my truthful comments. It only stirs the curiosity and makes everyone click on the hidden due to low comment link and see what i have to say. In the end they only get my message out more. People may not like what i say, but i challenge any one of them to ever point out where i am wrong factually.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 38 205
My philosophy to the letter. This ain’t no popularity contest.
Like or Dislike: 20 8
Your post on On April 27, 2011 at 10:26 AM, about the Obama certificate you stated:
“To that end, this document as posted on the news media outlets is still not an acceptable document. It is a â€œCertificate of Live Birthâ€ it does not have the raised/embossed seal as is required on a Birth Certificate”.
I posted a response to you that a Yahoo article says the opposite:
â€œHawaiiâ€™s computer-generated birth certificates carry a raised state seal and a signature stamp from the state registrar. Theyâ€™re valid documents for obtaining driverâ€™s licenses and other government documents. â€œ
You gave no response. You my friend, were factually wrong.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 18
I also accept your challenge.
You posted on On May 2, 2011 at 1:28 PM:
“Info obtained from Waterboarding suspects at Gitmo led to the info about the couriers which is what led the USA to Osamaâ€¦”
Donald Rumsfield says you are factually wrong.
“Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through â€œnormal interrogation approachesâ€ and says the notion that terrorist suspects were waterboarded at Guantanamo Bay is a â€œmyth.â€
This game is easy.
Like or Dislike: 9 15
You posted on On April 27, 2011 at 10:26 AM
“the one simple fact that his Mother was born in Kansas and therefore as a naturalized US Citizen”
You are factually wrong. A naturalized citizen is a foreign national who is granted citizenship in the United States after fulfilling certain requirements.
Like or Dislike: 10 11
First off I totally disagree with whoever kees putting your disagree numbers so high that you get closed out…They need to take that off here….This isn’t Facebook nonsense….On the other hand…I think like Fox….You might often confuse opinion with facts….
Like or Dislike: 8 12
Capt. Amerika, I was wondering what you had to say on this topic since you had so many “Dislke” votes. I was surprised that I agreed with you. I wonder how anyone would disagree…unless, of course, they didn’t take the time to read what you wrote.
Like or Dislike: 5 4
I voted ‘no’ because I want the library project to be done correctly, not because I’m against a new or substantially remodeled library.
When the library board comes back with a project that is at least 10% funded by private sources, centrally located, and with architect’s mock-ups and models, there will not be a need for a vote. Public support will be overwhelming. Mr. Grandstrand appears to be the only council member who sees the same shade of gray as 80 percent of the city’s residents who support the library, but can’t support this project as it was presented.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 69 12
I can’t believe proponents thought that a message which esssentially said “Give us the money and trust us” thought it would ever pass. I’m even more incredulous that the “peoples’ paper” endorsed it.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 71 13
Don’t worry, the East Grand Forks City Council agreed to pay for the GF library tonight by surrendering sewage rates to GF’s whims
Like or Dislike: 15 10
My problem with the library “temporary” sales tax:
When they built the Alerus Center, it was funded by a “temporary” sales tax increase.
But in the years since it was built, I don’t ever remember the sales tax going down.
So did they ever live up to their promise and end the Alerus center sales tax? Does anyone know?
And if not, how can we believe that the library sales tax will really be temporary, too?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 57 15
I don’t think there’s any doubt that the legacy of the Alerus fiasco cast a long shadow over the proposal of the library proponents. That was yet another “trust us” proposition. And as soon as the money was approved, all bets were off. The cost of construction rose, as the Alerus people maintained they weren’t constrained by the original amounts, the concerts and conventions ceased, and the former that did occur lost huge amounts of money. The management company called critics “morons,” with no consequences. And now the place stands empty most of the year, with the exception of receptions, for which it competes against the private sector. I believe many saw the same future for the library.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 34 8
The Alerus does not sit empty most days. It is very well used throughout the year, and, actually, makes a lot of money. The problem is the *morons* that used to run the place plowed all of the gains into huge concerts that lost money (Neil Diamond and Brittney Spears to name a couple).
Convention and meeting business isn’t sexy, but it resulted in a net gain of $40K per month in 2009. If the Alerus would stick to profitable business, it would have been in the black a long time ago.
About time the citizens of Grand Forks DIDN’T get screwed.
How much do we still owe on the White Elephant Civic Center? The “Wellness Center”? Two high schools worth of useless “improvements”?
What would the Library have cost INCLUDING the interest on the borrowed money?
I wonder how soon they’ll resurrect this project?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 47 23
I think i agree with most of your statement but at the same time i belkieve any time you spend money on facilities and improvements at a school you make an investment that is always worthwhile. kids go to school whether they like it or not, (to a point) i’d like to think that a nice friendly atmosphere would possibly keep a few of them in school and help them succeed.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 95
look at all the people who disagree that taking care of children is a good thing…. or are they just voting on little ole me???? Silly Liberals hahahahahahaha
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 94
We may have actually shot ourselves in the foot. I bet the contigency plan is to raise the mill rate to build the library. That way we won’t get to vote and only the residents will pay. This might come back to bite us!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 34 16
I was so glad to see the people that said NO!! to the tax height.. Way to go People.. Tell then to stuff in their pants That Virgina boss thinks he can have what he ever he wants
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 29
There is a fork that be said to fork them.. Tell them to go fork themselves.. Funny Though.. It still means fork them..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 29 39
You all know that pussycat doctor will do anything to get your vote.. Remember.. Most of you voted for that pussycat doctor.. You all must tell him to go to hell..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 32 42
Next time the People must vote better.. What’s new Pussycat.. No No Noo..
Hot debate. What do you think? 27 36
Pussy Cat Pussy cat we don’t love yes it’s true.. Yes it’s true.. Don’t be asking for votes .. nan ana na.. Tom Jones Songs 1970′s Good old vintage songs.. The People of Grand Forks Spoke
Hot debate. What do you think? 23 32
Actually, it came out in 1965.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 17 2
Rick, you need to take your medication. You do not sound well!
Like or Dislike: 9 2
Mayor Brown has enough money to buy to buy this for our city.. Way to go Mayor.. Kiss you kitty cat goodby
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 30
Does the Mayor remember the dog parks that was put down thru the people who live in a apartments who did not have a vote since they can’t have a dog to live in their apartments with them..? Shame on you Mr Brown.. You forced people to pay for a dog park when people can’t even have a dog in you city.. Not the City Of Grand Forks did not even consider the people who did not or could not have a Dog.. But yes the city approved it regardless if many people lived in a apartment. Mayor Brown Is a True GOP and can not think about anyone expect himself.. Got to remember.. He is a Pussycat Doctor.. Gop Means Republicans
Hot debate. What do you think? 38 47
Way to go Gene
Hot debate. What do you think? 14 23
Hey what can I say? I love oldies. Know all the words to the long version of “El Paso” and even “Friday On My Mind” by the Easy Beats.
Like or Dislike: 5 11
There is one thing I can’t handle.. It’s a big hole full of ash.. Someone must clean it up
Hot debate. What do you think? 15 24
Whats New Pussycat?
Hot debate. What do you think? 22 31
It’s so hilarious certain city politicians think this was a location issue–it was defeated because of poor planning by the library board and the city politicians!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 43 7
It’s so nice to see that the Grand Forks Residents said no and pushed the ash into the big hole.. Read between the line ash holes,, The people spoke
Hot debate. What do you think? 26 34
Taunting you people nananan na na.. to bad so sorry
Hot debate. What do you think? 26 35
It was fun to see the Brown not get his way. Nannana na na
Grand Forks is run by old ignorant people who are quite satisfied remaining uneducated. How could someone really say no to a new library when its obvious the current one is so dated? Does Grand Forks know that libraries offer valuable information for free? Everything is free there. Way to go Grand Forks, you really screwed up
Hot debate. What do you think? 36 42
One does not tear down a 40 year old home because the heater breaks. People in this town are educated and the ones that cared enough about their city are the ones who turned out to vote. I have not spoken to anyone who has ever stepped foot in the current library, everyone i know uses the internet to get the info they need. 20 million is a ridiculous number to put on a building that would just subsidise internet access for those who dont have it. I am all for improving the existing building but dont try to get me to believe that the current library gets 800+ customers a day because thats a BS number. Rearrange book shelves, get creative, get rid of old outdated crap that hasnt been checked out in 40 years. make do with what you have. This is not the time to be spending, if you want a new library, i suggest the city cut spending and take the savings from that and save it up for the next 5-10 years and then pay for it out of existing funds. and Rick, while your rant was actually quite funny, one should put the beer down while commenting
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 32 199
Great analogy! No I won’t put the doob down. It mellows me. Not even concerned about no library.
Like or Dislike: 7 14
Very good comment and my sentiments exactly Cap, I can’t figure out how you get so many thumbs down so fast. I think someone must have had to hack the system. Anyway, our family does use the library and we enjoy going there. However, it should not become another subsidized internet outlet. Libraries are to house books, primarily. Get rid of stuff that is outdated, or hasnâ€™t been checked out in years, and do a little updating. I agree that GF at sometime needs a better and larger Library, but right now with the economic uncertainty and people being taxed enough as it is, this is the wrong time to ask citizens to pony up more money for something that is not absolutely necessary to have. Where is this generationâ€™s Andrew Carnegie?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 10
This generation’s Andrew Carnegie is getting his tax breaks the old fashioned way–by asking their politicians for lower taxes. In Carnegie’s time, taxes were extremely high, so there was a huge incentive for wealthy people like him to tax shelter their fortunes in projects like libraries. There is no incentive anymore, as taxes are relatively low.
Like or Dislike: 2 5
People in this town are educated? The internet really needs a sarcasm detector.
Anyone who adds the term “fer” in front of an adjective is lacking said education. This vote also ensures that the rest of the country and world will continue to have this miserable excuse for a city to make fun of!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 18
So why don’t you move to a great city, Kobold? I’ve read a handful of your posts and you appear to me to be a person with a lot of complaints but not much to offer for solutions. Your smarmy â€œIâ€™m the smartest dude in the chat-roomâ€ attitude wonâ€™t get you too far.
Like or Dislike: 15 3
How would over $20 million in construction costs plus annual operating expenses be considred “free.”
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 23 5
It’s uneducated people such as yourself that are the real problem. Despite the goofy, misleading yard sign campaign by the Friends of the Library , the vote was for how we are funding the library, not whether or not there should be one. It would be helpful to the rest of us in the community if you would take the time to understand the issue before voting or commenting. 71% of the people polled in this city were in favor of a new library. 60% of the voters are against adding a 1% sales tax to fund it. Certainly, some people that voted against the tax may feel that we don’t need a new library at all. I’m also certain that many people that voted ‘no’ are in favor of a new library but would like to have a better idea of what the project is going to be. A lot of citizens, myself among them, voted ‘no’ not to a new library but ‘no’ to the idea of providing funding for a project that has yet to even choose a location.
In case you didn’t notice, despite the ‘no’ vote last night, you can still go to our existing library, check out “The Hobbit” and then log on to one of the several computers and make uninformed posts on community message boards.
I’ll let someone else here address your “Everything there is free” comment. I don’t have the time.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 33 7
Blayze, 21 million is not exactly free.
Like or Dislike: 8 1
“Glassheim said he thinks the city probably ought to debrief voters and find out what theyâ€™d like to do next. Maybe theyâ€™ll want a new library that doesnâ€™t cost so much, he said, or maybe they want one in another location.”
OR, maybe we want an actual plan in place before we agree to funding. :facepalm:
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 38 9
Our main reason in voting No was absolute distrust of City Council from top to bottom, Bjerke maybe the exception. Some of them I wouldn’t believe if they said the sun comes up in the east. When it was stated that ‘location’ can not be on the ballot, it took our Maybe vote to strongly NO
Add to that the fact of never really hearing what it might cost to redo existing building, only the reasons it could not be done.
All the things that the library board, some city officials, and consultants talked about putting into the library as well I am sure turned many people off. It went from being a public funded bookstore to an internet cafe with fireplace with coffee shop, deli, meeting rooms, play area, and oh by the way they have books, dvd’s, cd’s, periodical’s you can check out.
I think the person’s comment of where is this era’s Andrew Carnigie to be so true. Some private donation would be great to go along with public money. But I have a feeling that the private money tree may have dried up after financing an ever larger an extravagant Wellness Center.
At end of the day you can bet this issue has not gone away. It will be back, guaranteed.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 24 9
You trust Bjerke? I’ve got a bridge in Arizona that I’d like to sell you.
Hot debate. What do you think? 15 18
I think this project was on track up until the location vote. When the City Council didn’t get an endorsement of its favored location by the new wellness center, it muddied the waters with objections about traffic around the Leevers site so that location was pulled. I think this was done as a way to derail the entire project. Certain of the Council members had their hearts set on the wellness center site and they were not going to let it go elsewhere so they confused the issue resulting in the no vote. If you think about it, the grocery store had been there for decades perfectly able to handle much more daily traffic than the library would get and it was no problems. Suddenly traffic was an issue. It was ultimately the Council who put the kabosh on this project.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 37 3
Have you read the papers or watched the news? The USA is broke and no one has the guts to take the checkbook away from Congress. Our state is on a path to unsustainable future mandated payments if farming, ranching or oil exploration goes south. Our city is like a spoiled child that wants everything it sees. They think they can raise taxes every time they want more. At some point the answer has to be no, not right now, we don’t have the money. Our families make these decisions everyday, we say no not now, its not in the cards, we have to go without. The people said no to taxes, no to the location and no to the “new” library. Its time to get by with what we have. Its not the end of the world, we still have a library. Would a new one be better? Maybe, but not right now. No means no.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 32 11
Some in the city when it comes to these projects are indeed like spoiled childern who want what they want and want it now…….If it came out of private rather than public funding I think these same people would find ways to achieve what is needed through renovating the current library (Including some of the changes mentioned elsewhere on these boards) rather than going for a brand new building. How is it during this so called debate we seemed to only hear from experts who would have had something to gain with a new building? Maybe I missed it, but other than their experts who had an interest in pointing out how much cheaper it would be for them to do something new than fix the old we never hear anyone else who has exprience in remodeling talk aobut how they could do something at a different price. If most of us are looking for solutions when it comes to building don’t we look at different solutions? Why not here? It seems that it was deemed a new building and anything else was off the table…..And that has a lot to do with why it was shot down
Like or Dislike: 19 5
Guess I should have been very specific about trusting Bjerke.
It is only meant that if he said they would build at one location that after the vote he would NOT then find a reason to build somewhere else.
Hope this clears it up for you
Like or Dislike: 6 2
Oh well. At least we’re getting more restaurants (Olive Garden)! I would think that anything that puts kids’ minds off a Playstation and into a book would be a plus, but I guess not? The internet is not always the most reliable source for doing accurate research for topics. Libraries are needed for this.
Terry Bjerke, the anti-government/government worker-tea partier, was against it, so I had to be for it.
Like or Dislike: 8 16
You do understand that we currently have a library, right?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 21 3
Thanks f&b, you just proved our point, we can get rid of the computers at the library since they aren’t a reliable source for info and that would make room for more books! I guess a remodel was all we really needed after all.
Like or Dislike: 14 2
so in your opinion, its the cities job to spend millions of dollars on a new library because that will somehow make a kid put down a video game a read a book? Never really thought of that angle…. probably because i always felt it was my job as a PARENT to unplug the video game and send time with my kid and direct his interest into reading a book from time to time. The school library offers a ton of choices btw. New or old, the Library was never intended to do your parenting job for you. its a tool that was huge in the 70′s but in todays world a person can get every single item known to man through the internet and 20.8 million dollars is not required for that. btw, anyone want to buy my encyclopedia’s? its a nice set that i foolishly purchased since neither of my kids ever touched them. seems it was quicker to “google” the topic and get 100X the info my books offered. This “New” library is the same thing as my encyclopedias, neat to have but not a needed product.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 95
The city has been hijacked for a long time by the private sector. Everytime something is built with public $ it goes to the private firms involved in the construction incld. the land for locations. Who donated the land for the wellness center with the intent of drawing other public $ to the their land. At least if the city understood how to make the Alerus functional it would force wellness centers, libraries etc. to locate there to attract conventions. As I mentioned in another post Sioux Falls has concluded that by putting its convention center on its isolated west side it has killed conventions because people want to be able to walk to “something” in their downtime and say they won’t come again to SF.
Like or Dislike: 10 3
Mister Glasshiem is a old GOP student and he has not learned anything.. It is time to vote the know nothing person out of the city as he still thinks in the 1800′s type of rule.. Mr Glasshiem is way too old to rule in our cities anymore.. Maybe GW Bush has a place for him to live in Texas..
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 13
What are you talking about? Glasshiem is as left as they come.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 21 0
Its awesome when even the Liberal Democrats cant even figure out who is and who isnt on their side. Talk about a demographic with identity issues.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 2 96
Just as suspected, talk about raising mill rate already as an option. Padded numbers as usual for the remodel now. $1.1 mil for the lighting fixtures? They must be gold. I sell light fixtures with 3 yr warranty for the bulbs, 5 yr on the ballast, and lifetime for the fixture for between $125-$150 each, all hi-efficiency. The library would take 100 at most. I can’t believe the swapout would be that much!
Shanko – 1.1 Mil on lighting fixtures is exactly what I was asking myself.. Really?!?!! What the.. Plumbing and power outlets 6.3 Million?!?!!?!?! WHAT THE. These are the types of figures that primarily influenced my no vote, and it snowballed from there. As well as the initial number for renovation (upon no vote) I heard total was 6 million from Hal Gershman on KNOX radio, which I thought was pretty high. And now they are saying 17. some mil? So wait, 4 million less than a brand new state of the art library? You don’t have to have a masters in mathematics or even know how to read a digital for that matter, to see, that something is seriously wrong and greedy there. Hey I need to renovate my bathroom in my house too, were lookin’ at about $900,000 or so to get that done. I’ve never found myself so tied up and passionate about something in Grand Forks (aside from maybe the logo drama) than this library. Grand Forks should have priorities, and I’m sorry, but a library shouldn’t be at the top of that list.. maybe somewhere on it.. There are serious cosmetics to address here aside from the obvious roads and other obvious features. I’ve been working in Fargo for my job lately, drive there everyday and back, and needless to say we should take some lessons. Or maybe spend some of this easy-to-come-by-20-million on some type of business development. There’s a reason Fargo is full of new homes and modern buildings… there’s also a reason Fargo’s population has gone up 45,000 people in 30 years, and Grand Forks has acquired 9,000 people in as many years. It’s great to have new books, but there are more important issues whether you want to hear it or not.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 22 2
I agree with you Mike.. Please use the term called WTF.. You are correct in the matters of poor spending.. Next time the people of Grand Forks votes for a community leader.. Make sure that that person is not rich… If you elect a person like Hal Gershem for a city leader.. You must know he is so rich that he will not even do the right thing for the people in Grand Forks.. Just face it.. Our next leader must be a poor person..
Like or Dislike: 6 5
Rich or poor doesn’t matter…Just level headed and responsible enough to seperate wants from needs
Like or Dislike: 0 3
Come on people, i’m really disappointed that you Liberals havent managed to take a single one of my comments to negative 200. Its pathetic voting like this that cost you the new library you so badly wanted. Lets regroup and see if you can get a few of your friends to care enough to silence my silly old conservative opinions. If you cant even get me to 200 you will never get enough people to vote for a tax to get your library…… Silly Liberals.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 97
Basically the only people who pigeon hole people into being either liberal or conservative is right wing extremists. The world just isn’t set up as black and white as that. I doubt if you’ve ever came across many actual liberals. Most right wing extremists basically seem to consider any opposing opinion from their own as “liberal.” Oh and by the way…..If you take a real good look…..There’s really not too many so called “conservatives” now days either….At least not in the traditional sense of the word….
Like or Dislike: 4 10
Click here to cancel reply.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
To start connecting please log in first.
Topics is proudly provided by the Forum Communications Company