Hudson School District makes one-year contract proposal to teachers
March 25, 2011 at 4:24 am in Hudson Star-Observer
The School District of Hudson made a counter proposal to the local teachers union Thursday night the third meeting in the past four nights. Another meeting is scheduled at 5 p.m. tonight (Friday) with the Board of Education. If the teachers accept the district’s proposal, the contract would be approved this evening. Continue Reading
No wonder our district costs are so high….much of the contract deals with sick days, personal days, and other such time off. They accrue 12 sick days per year! That’s unheard of in the private sector. Then they can carry up to 110 of them. I think that this cap at 110 might be new. After that they get paid for any over 110.
How about we institute a use it or lose it policy like the rest of the real world? If they truly are sick days, they shouldn’t be accumulated like unused vacation. These accrued days are a huge financial liability. In part because they are earned at one pay grade, but then payed out at the end at a much high pay grade.
Time to get these people operating in the same universe as the rest of us taxpayers. They have been coddled for far too long.
Hot debate. What do you think?
38 
40
Let’s see a meeting is set up for 5 pm tonight and notice was given this morning. I do believe this is a violation of the open meeting law. So let me understand this….they can do it but the republicans can’t. I get it now.
Hot debate. What do you think?
30 
36
Let’s stay on topic. Are you telling me that you get to bank 22 weeks of sick days in your private sector job? How many sick days do you get per year?
Let’s look at one example…. an employee with a couple years with the company (and an advanced degree and 20 years of experience ) earns around 4 weeks of personal days/year—a 52-week work year, not a 37-week work year. Those days can be used as sick days, or if you don’t get sick, they can be used as planned vacation days. It encourages people to stay healthy and not call in ‘sick’ when they really aren’t (a’hem). Obviously short term disability can be used in case of serious illness. Companies keep a pretty short tab on them though and accumulation of about 2 years worth is it, so maybe up to 8 weeks max.
As I mentioned earlier, I believe this 110 days is a new ceiling that has been set for the teachers. If someone knows differently it would be helpful to know. I have heard that it is not unusual for some government employees to retire with around a year’s worth of banked sick days. Glad to see we are getting somewhat of a handle on this …..finally.
Hot debate. What do you think?
27 
30
Stezz,
That sounds too much like common sense for John Smith to grasp. Is argument would implode if he actually had to do some in-depth research and do some salary surveys to back his analysis. He has fallen for the conquer and divide mantra that is being promoted.
Hot debate. What do you think?
29 
25
I didn’t realize that teachers in Wisconsin couldn’t get a job in Minnesota? If the pay/benefits etc are all so much better then head on over there. I can’t believe you are fighting about sick days. Who the hell gets to bank sick days? If their is a private company doing this please let me know so I can make sure I don’t have any investments in them. There are all kinds of programs if you come along with a short or long term disability. The sick days the teachers use are a work around to get more cash. This is why schools should be privatized so that they can be paid on actual goals and achievements and someone with the checkbook actually has to make smart financial decisions.
Hot debate. What do you think?
28 
28
Go check on the morale in an unemployment line and get back to me stezz. One good thing this whole subject is doing is opening the eyes of the general public who used to think that teachers were so poorly compensated.
What benefits are being taken away? Health care and pensions are staying in place. The employees just need to contribute to them a bit more. If they shouldn’t contribute to their own health insurance and pension, who should? Now they will get the added benefit of deciding if they want to write a check to the unions….automatic pay raise for those who say no thanks.
How many teachers have left the Hudson school district in the last five years for greener pastures? How many government employees do you see just up and quitting and heading out to the private sector? If the answer is almost none, that should tell you something.
Hot debate. What do you think?
25 
26
So because I don’t agree with them banking sick days I don’t care about teacher? That is one big jump. I do think teachers should contribute more to their pension. I do think they should contribute more to there healthcare. I don’t think they should be able to carry over sick days. Just wanted to make sure you understood what the arguement is. I’m guessing that you confused in your illogical and illiterate diatribes.
Hot debate. What do you think?
25 
27
” You see, teachers have taken a lot of abuse from the likes of youse over the last month.”
Let’s see, who has been having a tantrum down at the capitol with their drums, whistles, foul language and death threats? Who’s been grilling burgers inside of the capitol, staying when there were asked to leave, all the while demanding their rights? Who’s been telling us they are the ‘real workers’ and to just shut up and pay?
Who has been protesting every weekend for the last month in Hudson, calling for boycotts on local businesses, stalking shoppers around town to sign their recall petition sheets, and shouting at people who happen to have a different opinion? Who lied and called in sick on Feb 18 causing inconvenience to 5000 students in our district, not to mention the lost day of education?
You’re wrong stezz, it has been taxpayers who have been taking abuse. And it is about to end.
Hot debate. What do you think?
31 
27
Their take home pay will be reduced because they have to contribute more to THEIR PENSION and THEIR HEALTHCARE. You obviously live in wonderland so it probably doesn’t matter to you but we are facing a huge deficit and there are people living on food stamps and in homeless shelters. People are losing their houses, cars, farms etc. Get a clue about real life and the world around you. Of course most liberals live in a dream world where economics is a term that is as unfamiliar as working hard and getting what you earn.
I would actually be willing to pay teachers more if there were some kinds of goals and achievements that had to be accomplished with a certain % of their students, but they don’t want to be held to any accountable standards so that makes it pretty difficult. If the teachers would get rid of the union then the teachers would turn into a salesforce in some ways. The top 20% would be paid handsomely, the middle 80% would be paid fairly, and the bottom 20% would keep getting fired.
Hot debate. What do you think?
29 
24
Steez I have read your rants about the teachers and am getting a bit annoyed. The teachers have taken abuse. What about the abuse the teachers have given to the politicians. Are they not human with families? What about the abuse the teachers give within each other if one chooses not to join the Union? I get tired of being called heartless for having an opinion that may be different than theirs. John Smith is right 110 sick days is incredible and then to get paid out on those well that is 20,000 just in a sick day payout when you retire. That is pretty damn rich. I wonder if stay at home mom’s could have unions for all they do and maybe we could tax the everyday public to pay us. I mean you stay home by choice and never get sick days and don’t get paid and take care of children and get to doctor appt. and educate children and feed the family and clean the house. Yup no benefits there except for happy family. Maybe I am going off the beaten path a bit but my point is that the jobs you take you take by choice. If you don’t like it find another. Apparently across the river a you have said. So what are they going to do when they lose collective bargaining over there move to Iowa. Wisconsin is not making the wheel here it has been done before and will continue to be done. See you can’t spend money you don’t have. We don’t have a giant credit card contrary to what the Federal Gov’t thinks. Thus we need to either cut or raise taxes. How much would you like your taxes to go up to take care of the teachers? 2,000/3,000? How much is too much?
Hot debate. What do you think?
21 
27
“What about the abuse the teachers have given to the politicians.” Just let that sink in for a minute. Politicians get some great pay and benefits – and some of them don’t even bother to communicate with the people they represent. Then they preach to people who struggle to make ends meet that they should sacrifice all the while they are raking in farm subsidies.
And I used to get around 110 sick days when I worked for a couple of large insurance companies. And that was awhile ago, so it’s not that unusual.
I’m in agreement with you about the SAHM unions though.
Like or Dislike:
12 
15
Stezz – after reading your position I think it is you who is missing the point. No one is trying to stick it to teachers. If anything, the really good teachers are going to see the opportunities this change brings them. Good teachers will now have the ability to be paid for their accomplishments, their resourcefulness and their commitment to the school and student they serve. The comment saying “you get what you pay for” doesn’t explain why there are such good teachers in the local private schools. How many times have we heard from the public school teachers at the high school how quickly they can tell a St. Pat’s student from the others. Then tell me how many sick days a St. Patrick school teacher gets and the great wage and benefits they have. I’m not going to say public school teachers are overpaid – what I will say is they have many benefits paid for by the taxpayer that doesn’t show up on the teacher’s W2, as in i.e. the employee contribution to their retirement, the generous amount of subsidized healthcare premium and yes, these generous number of sick days. All these type of bennies that the average person in the private sector has to claim as income and pay taxes against. That is probably the most aggravating issue with all of this – that public sector workers feel they don’t need to be, or should be, considered on the same playing field as we mere mortals who have to support them. Thus the angst.
Hot debate. What do you think?
27 
14
Just out of curiosity, why doesn’t St. Patrick’s publish their WKCE scores like the Hudson public schools do?
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
13
What part of private don’t you understand dear? I am sure that they provide it to prospective students/parents. When they start receiving tax dollars…..how’s that?
Hot debate. What do you think?
18 
17
I’ll find out what they are and post them here so we can compare. Thanks John!
Like or Dislike:
15 
13
Please provide the link as I’d love to see them too!
Like or Dislike:
15 
6
Still waiting to see those test scores Natasha…
Like or Dislike:
8 
2
Using the logic out from teachers and teachers’ spouses out here, since the teachers at St. Pat’s make far less and the student tuition is much lower than $11,000/year, I would assume that St. Pat’s students test poorly compared to the Hudson public schools. Somehow, I doubt that is at all the case.
Like or Dislike:
15 
12
Who said they test poorly? Where did you get that? I thought you liked facts. We’re getting facts. Because we’re curious. Such negativity. John, why do you have to be so negative all the time? Lighten up.
And who are the teachers and teacher’s spouses? Just curious.
Like or Dislike:
15 
11
Yeah, there are also a lot of administrators and “specialists” we’re talking about, not just teachers.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
17 
2
Since cost per student at St. Pats is less than half the cost at the public school, you would expect much lower scores…
Like or Dislike:
10 
5
I’m willing to bet St. Pats has hardly any ESL or special needs students also. Even with everything considered, Hudson Schools rank very high on tests scores.
Like or Dislike:
14 
9
Are ELS or special needs students included on test scores?
Like or Dislike:
10 
1
If I didn’t work I would be getting in line to become a teacher because they are all about to move to Minnesota for those great jobs you were talking about earlier. Nice argument though.
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
21
Woe is me…if I don’t have it, you shouldn’t either. I’m sorry I don’t believe in it. There are winners, and there are losers. Not everybody gets a ribbon for participating in life. Everybody is given the same opportunities. You and I could both go to school and get a teaching degree. Then we would have the “cadillac” benefits I’ve heard so much about. Or we could all home school our kids. Then we wouldn’t need these greedy teachers. I actually believe that my childrens’ education is worth far more than what teachers are actually paid. And if there is low morale in the unemployment line, it’s because someone is standing around feeling sorry for themself, instead of working hard to find a job or go back to school. Our society has turned into a bunch of entitled, self-righteous cry babies, that throw a tantrum when one person gets more sick days than another.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
40 
20
Amen. They won’t be happy until they ruin our good public school system and blame someone else for it.
Hot debate. What do you think?
28 
19
“Woe is me…if I don’t have it, you shouldn’t either. I’m sorry I don’t believe in it. There are winners, and there are losers. Not everybody gets a ribbon for participating in life. Everybody is given the same opportunities.”
We wish someone would tell that to the teachers….. they are the ones who have been whining for the last month+. It is hard to defend the teachers when they have pretty decent pay and benefits and then they are constantly whining and asking for more or telling us how they are suffering. It just falls on deaf ears because there are a lot of people without work, taking pay cuts, etc. If the teachers would stop their complaining, perhaps people would respect them more. Just a thought…
“And if there is low morale in the unemployment line, it’s because someone is standing around feeling sorry for themself, instead of working hard to find a job or go back to school.”
And the teachers are looking for compassion? Wow—those people in the unemployment lines are the ones being asked to ‘pony up’ for more pay increases and bennies for the teachers, when they themselves are out of work. It is exactly your attitude that has people so ticked off and not particularly sympathetic to teachers or any other gov’t employee for that matter.
Like or Dislike:
9 
17
You’re confusing us Kari – remind me again which bunch entitled, self-righteous cry babies left their job and went to Madison to protest???
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
27
Dang First Amendment and freedom of assembly, human rights, political freedoms and civil liberties. They just get in everybody’s way.
Hot debate. What do you think?
25 
16
If I took the day off and protested my employer, I’d get fired.
Hot debate. What do you think?
18 
21
Natasha – don’t forget freedom of speech.
Like or Dislike:
9 
0
Oh Smovet you stole my response. Love it!! The cry babies here are the teachers. Give me more give me more. There is nothing to give PEOPLE! We are not crying over you having more than us we are disgusting by the idea that you feel when everyone else is sacrificing you are entitled.
Hot debate. What do you think?
23 
27
My kids tell me there are teachers at the high school that are not particularly “motivated” and don’t need to worry because the union protects them. Great system. Let’s give them whatever they want because it’s for the kids. And like they said before, if we don’t give them what they want the students will suffer. Increase taxes. If people move and home prices start diving, who cares? We aren’t all teachers and spouses of teachers. We are all taxpayers. Government spending is out of control and education is the number one black hole. Most of the whiners here just don’t want to lose their spouse’s great benefits. It’s time to put a stop to the insanity. Throwing more and more money at the education system isn’t making it better. The economic conditions can’t support your lavish early retirements any longer. Time to get back to reality.
Hot debate. What do you think?
26 
23
Multiple the sick leave pay times the number of teachers. More excess spending. Who offers paid accrued sick days? The government and no other employers. Just another reason government spending is out of control.
Hot debate. What do you think?
24 
21
Tim: Was it your child that refused to do the same work as the rest of the class, then told the teacher to F off when he found out he was going to fail? These are the self righteous and entitled I refer to. If public education is such a financial black hole full of unmotivated and overpayed teachers, why do you send your children there?
You all have the right to speak your mind and fight for what you believe in…public employees don’t? Not one teacher I know is unwilling to pay more for their benefits. While you were building your top-of-the-line elementary school, teachers were taking a pay freeze. How many teachers do you see driving around town in a BMW or living in an upper class neighborhood? Lavish, not so much.
Hot debate. What do you think?
26 
23
Funny you mention that….because actually, we did see a teacher driving down the road in a new BMW just recently!! We were pretty shocked too. I won’t mention any name here though to save embarrassment for them. And actually, many teachers we know live in much nicer homes than we do and several have boats, cabins, etc. They are living the American dream. We just wish they would stop playing the victim and pleading poverty.
Hot debate. What do you think?
21 
23
A teacher in a BMW. Didn’t they take a vow of poverty? Someone check their W2s stat. We pay their wages. We should determine how they spend their money. This isn’t right at all. There should be anarchy. And how much money does their spouse make? And do they have a second job?
Geez John, would you just chill and stop comparing yourself to others. It’s just not healthy.
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
14
I think that John was just pointing out that teachers aren’t living in the state of poverty you all are telling us they are. Kari had said ” How many teachers do you see driving around town in a BMW or living in an upper class neighborhood?” and John pointed out what he has observed that didn’t line up with Kari’s broad statement. Just the facts .
Teachers have every right to spend their salaries anyway they choose…we hope they stimulate the economy! In the meantime though, they should stop complaining to people who are unemployed. It doesn’thelp to build morale among taxpayers.
Like or Dislike:
11 
14
Kari – my kids would never use the F word and actually respect adults. Apparently our households are different.
Hot debate. What do you think?
15 
16
Okay everybody, can we just have a civil conversation here and not insult each others kids? I think when all is said and done, we all want good education for our kids. Let’s take a breather.
Hot debate. What do you think?
19 
13
Public employees have a right to speak their minds and fight for what they believe in, but I don’t? MY taxes pay for your early retirement with paid medical and cheap medical benefits while you work. It is MY taxes that allow you to bank your sick days and get paid for weeks of time off. While working 8 months a year and getting above market raises and free pensions. Great gig. Now that the secret is out, a lot more people will probably go into education.
Hot debate. What do you think?
20 
17
Social Security is a totally separate program and is NOT part of the Federal budget.
Like or Dislike:
14 
9
Here are some facts:
1. At 12 days per year t will take a teacher 9.167 years to earn the full 110 sick days. Assuming the average person gets sick at least one day per school year (not a crazy idea, considering schools can be little germ factories), we could safely round this up to 10 years. A decade to earn 110 days of sick leave.
2. Once a teacher banks 110 sick days, he or she can get $20 for each day they have beyond 110. Remember, it’s going to take a decade to get to 110, but if I do get there and end my 11th year in the district with 114 sick days, I can get $80.00.
3. The district buys out the sick days on retirement for $50/day and puts the money into a MERT (medical retirement account) to be spent on medical costs. That’s $5,500 if your calculator’s not handy. That $5,500 is actually reduces the burden a retired teacher would put on Medicare/Medicaid upon retirement. Not a lot, but still.
3. No teacher/worker in Hudson schools is required to join the union. All are required to pay union dues. BUT, they may demand not to pay the portion of dues used for political lobbying and activities. It’s called “Fair Share.” The idea is that all employees of the district covered by the union benefit from the bargaining actions, and ought to help cover their part of those costs.
Again, for clarity, no worker in Hudson schools is required to contribute to the union thugs who are out there strong-arming the school board and legislators.
5. As a product of Catholic school (elementary and high–I worked after school in high school cleaning classrooms to afford the tuition), I can say first-hand that private schools are cheaper for parents. But it is an unfair comparison to make between, for ex., St. Pat’s and Hudson.
Often, the diocese/parish/church subsidizes costs (in parochial schools, anyway), which makes per pupil spending tricky unless one gets the “real deal” info from the private school. Also, private schools do not provide the same level of educational nor social supports to struggling students. Finally, private schools do not provide nearly the range and depth of extracurriculars and co-curriculars as do public schools.
I doubt that any die-hard folks out there are likely to listen to much of what I have shared, but it’s you open-minded folks in the middle who I hope can find value in what I have written above. I honestly believe that the quiet, thoughtful people out there are the majority, and that the majority want what’s best for everyone in the long run and will make that clear at the ballot box.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
30 
10
Thank you for your explanation. I think it is hasty to pick apart and compare benefits when one doesn’t see the whole picture or have all the information.
I am heartbroken at the harsh and cruel words that residents of Hudson have been posting on these boards the last month against teachers. I wish I knew why teachers drew such ire from some folks. In Hudson, teachers are held to pretty high standards. It’s untrue that our jobs are protected and safe, or that is no evaluation system. I can’t speak for high or middle school, but I can assure you that in elementary we are assessed while teaching, we turn in data of our students’ work which is analyzed, have goals that must be met. We are put on improvement plans that can lead to dismissal. I’m not going to whine about “how hard we work”, but look into the expectations Hudson has for its teachers. They speak for themselves the pressure we are under to perform. I tell you, with absolute certainty, that I know of no teachers that “skate by”.
I know nothing anyone can say will change the attitudes of those who think teachers are lazy, greedy and “suckling off the tax payers.” I just wish that folks would be totally informed before saying things like there aren’t real people (neighbors, friends, brothers, sisters, moms and dads, and sons and daughters) on the receiving end.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
27 
11
If you don’t understand the anger toward public sector unions (not just teachers), then you are not paying attention.
Hot debate. What do you think?
12 
21
The same people you defend on your comment, are the same people calling for boycotts against the businesses their neighbors, friends, brothers, sisters, moms and dads, and sons and daughters may own or are employed by.
Like or Dislike:
13 
16
Boycotting, protesting or arguing against a bill isn’t the same as slander. It isn’t name calling, and it isn’t the throwing about of lies or inaccuracies.
If the teachers so quickly accepted the increase of contributions to health care and pensions, then it must be asked what the stand against the bill is really about. Please don’t quip that it’s about the unions, because that is the easy answer. Ask the question, and then look for answers within the community of people you are vilifying. Could it really be possible teachers are worried about their students’ education? Could it really be possible that they see the dangers of what is happening as it relates to learning.
I ask you one more time, where does the anger against teachers come from?
Hot debate. What do you think?
23 
12
Short-sighted people who have no qualms about cutting education funding. I have seen such bitterness and hatred on these forums, it really makes me worried that people sit around all day and have this venom and hatred for other people. They constantly compare themselves to others that they perceive are getting something they don’t have.
I have the opportunity to travel internationally two or three times a year on humanitarian missions. It really helps put things in perspective for me. You tend not to focus on yourself and what you don’t have when you are helping children who need clean drinking water.
The teachers in this community are good people who do good work and work hard. If you are unhappy with your child’s education, you have plenty of other options open to you. If you are unhappy with your job compared to others, make a positive change for yourself. If you are unhappy with the world, work toward change.
Or you can sit on these forums and spew hatred and bitterness if that is what makes you feel better.
Hot debate. What do you think?
24 
11
so you can’t understand why joe public might be annoyed when the people hired to teach their children, and children in the community call for a boycott of the business that employs them or their neighbors? Or when they shut the school down so they can go to madison and protest a bill that many believe will help WI get its fiscal house in order? how about the feeling that they should be exempt from an economic downturn (don’t give me they agreed to the concessions because they didn’t until the budget repair bill came up) while their neighbors are losing their jobs, homes, retirement, etc….
Hot debate. What do you think?
14 
17
It has been said several times here, by several people, there is no anger towards teacher, there is anger towards massive taxes (Wisconsin is top 10 in taxes) and above market benefits PAID FOR BY TAX PAYERS. Fully funded pensions and medical benefits for early retirement and paid accumulated sick days are NOT the norm in the market. Add to that a huge state deficit and a slow economy. Cuts have been made for years in the private sector due to the bad economy. Government sector emplyees have not seen the cuts in pensions and medical benefits that private sector employees have had to deal with for years. To cut state costs and reduce the state deficit, Government employees need to start absorbing high medical costs and pension costs. Something that has been goping on in the private sector for years. Why should taxes payers pay even MORE in taxes for benefits that aren’t available anywhere else? If their benefits were in line with what has happened in the private sector the last 10 years, there wouldn’t be an issue.
Like or Dislike:
11 
14
Sbrown: no, I don’t understand it.
I get anger over the school closure. It was a major inconvenience for families and students. Please remember not all the teachers, not even the majority, called in. There were many, many teachers (2/3) that wanted to go to work that day. Slandering all teachers for this is unjust and unfair.
I think you hit it on the head by stating that teachers (i.e. public workers – although I don’t hear a lot of wildlife biologist bashing) have a contract that guarantees a level of pay and benefits for a year at a time. What I am hearing is that it’s “not fair”.
Is the reason really because teachers had a contract and you don’t? Is it jealousy over specified working conditions? Jealousy over having an arbitration process in place? Jealousy over having decent healthcare as part of our wages when you do not? Jealousy over having a retirement plan that our employee contributes generously to? All I have heard you say so far is that the teachers have a sweet deal and you do not. Jealously is ugly, and I do not believe it is a just reason for name calling or hatred.
Yes, education is paid for by the government and the tax payers. I am a Hudson tax payer, and I gladly pay the high property taxes and income taxes so that my children go to excellent schools with excellent teachers. I love the cleanliness of my community, and the fact that my 90 year old grandmother gets financial aid with her prescriptions and housing.
Now, if the anger is because it is YOUR tax money and you do not agree that these things should our burden, then there are a few choices. There are places where the taxes are not as high. You will be making a choice to your standard of living, but there is a choice. But these issues and the anger you have with them should be directed somewhere other than the teachers.
But most of all, what I hear loud and clear, is that this is a case of the “have nots”. Everyone should suffer if you do? Please don’t make the mistake of thinking that teachers are immune to life’s hardships in this tough economy. We are not, as you may incorrectly assume, immune to lay-offs. There is nothing that protects us from that. We are not immune to losing our houses or filing for bankruptcy. Just like you, many of us are one big “uh-oh” from going under. We have spouses in the private sector, and are very aware of the job losses and pay cuts. We are feeling the pinch as much as everyone. If this is the reason for your name calling and hatred, I think it would be better directed at your employer or the heads of companies that make millions while their employees suffer.
There are many, many fine educators looking for jobs at this moment right now. We see how lucky we are to have a job; but I don’t think anyone is gloating. We are blessed to be working in these tough times and no Hudson teacher takes that for granted.
So I ask, one more time, where is the anger towards teachers coming from? If you were my neighbor, would you hate me and say such ugly and hurtful things to my face? When we talked over our fence as you put your mower away and I pulled weeds in my garden, would you say such mean things to me? When I waved at you while you got your mail and I pulled out of my driveway, would you scowl and give the finger? I am a kind person and a nice neighbor. I take the blessings I have and use them as fuel to go above and beyond what seems even possible to teach my students. I am joyful, and optimistic, and I love each student and treat them the same no matter the circumstances in their life. I am so proud to do such noble and beautiful work. And on top of it all, I am REALLY good at it – which is the case for the majority of the fine teachers who chose Hudson.
So why do you hate teachers?
Hot debate. What do you think?
23 
12
I have no idea what the test scores are like at St. Pat’s, but please remember that St. Pat’s does not have to accept every student like the public schools do. Public schools are obligated to teach students with special needs, students who come from poverty, students who come from abusive homes, etc. etc. etc.. Private schools have an advantage in that they do not have to account for these situations, so while their test scores may be higher than those seen from public schools, the facts are that public school classrooms are often overcrowded, the parents don’t always have a vested interest in their child’s education (i.e. they have not paid tuition), and the teachers don’t have to take attention away from the average or above average student to help those with special needs. Please compare apples to apples when complaining about our public schools.
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
10
The teachers in my kids’ school do an exceptional job keeping the kids working on their studies while balancing ESL kids, special needs kids, and kids with difficult circumstances. We received three students from Minnesota schools who could barely read at kindergarten level in second grade. Those students have made strides this year. I volunteer several days a week tutoring in reading as do other parents.
My children have been in Hudson schools for the past six years, and I have yet to meet or come in contact with a sub-par teacher. It is an exceptionally good school system.
I even converted two hardcore homeschooling Moms to try our school, and they love it. Hopefully, we will be able to maintain our excellence.
Hot debate. What do you think?
21 
11
So why couldn’t those second graders in Minnesota read at the Kindergarten level? I thought that the Minnesota schools paid their teachers more, therefore the students should all be smarter, isn’t that how it goes?
Like or Dislike:
11 
14
I have no idea what school those children attended in Minnesota as I’m not privy to their personal files. I also have no idea what Minnesota teachers are paid. There are good and bad public and private schools everywhere. I am aware of what our teachers accomplish which is what I shared.
Like or Dislike:
15 
11
I just took a look at my tax statement so I could really know how much I pay for the schools. I was actually surprised. When you add in lunch money, supplies, field trips, etc., I pay about $2,000 per year for my child’s education. I have one child in elementary school, and for that money, he gets: a safe ride to and from school, many people to look out for him and be sure he is taken care of throughout the day, a hot lunch, social skills, and most importantly, an education. I also have 2 younger children, not yet in school. For $2,000 per year, the two younger children would get daycare for only 2 months. Not a bad deal in my book. I expect my taxes to go up, just as I expect the winter to turn into spring. I also expect that I will continue paying them long after my children graduate. I just don’t understand why the teachers have become the “bad guys” in this whole situation.
“Modern cynics and skeptics… see no harm in paying those to whom they entrust the minds of their children a smaller wage than is paid to those to whom they entrust the care of their plumbing.” ~John F. Kennedy
Hot debate. What do you think?
23 
12
If that is your property taxes, that is only local taxes and doesn’t include STATE funding, which comes from STATE income taxes. I pay a lot more in property taxes and a good portion of the property tax bill comes from people with no children.
Keep taxing and spending and running up deficits. It will be paid off by the kids. If they can find a job.
Like or Dislike:
12 
13
So what you are saying Kari is that you are getting a great deal. You pay $2,000 while someone else pays the other $9,000. Let’s see when your other two are in school, you will be still be paying somewhere around $2,000, while your neighbors will pick up the remaining $27,000 each year.
So over the course of their combined 39 years in schooling (3×13), you will have payed about $34,000 in school taxes (assuming they attend over about a 17 year period), whereas your neighbors will have payed the other $400,000.
You’re right. It is a good deal for you. Assuming all your tax dollars go right to your kids, you are paying for only 8% of their education. Your neighbors with no kids in school pick up the other 92% of the tab.
That’s why four-year old kindergarten is such a big hit for all the young families. It is basically taxpayer funded daycare for people like you so you don’t have to pay for daycare bills, the rest of us do. Of course, parents veil it in how much their kids are learning, but there is more to it than that.
You say you will even pay after they are gone. Even if you live here 40 years you will never come close to paying in school taxes what it cost to put them through school. You will have only payed around $80,000, or less than 20% of the cost of putting them through school.
Instead of talking about how taxpayers are so mean and expect so much from our schools, you should be thanking them.
Like or Dislike:
12 
12
From (http://www.dpi.state.wi.us/sfs/cmpcst.html):
Cost can differ from one district to another and from one year to another. There may be several reasons for this variance – educational programming, pupil transportation requirements, increases or decreases in debt service expenditures, or having food and community service operations. Reliance on a single cost determination, which may not be representative for all school districts, can lead to erroneous conclusions. The following “comparable” cost measures were developed to limit or identify the effects of various factors that contribute to cost variances:
Total Current Educational Cost (TCEC) This measure attempts to identify overall instructional and instructional support service costs attributable to district resident students. It can generally be described as the cost of the district’s General and Special Project funds, excluding transportation and facility acquisition expenditures, less inter-fund transfers and revenues for instructional services the district provides to non-resident pupils such as tuition receipts, CESA and cooperative agreements, and state inter-district integration aid.
Total Education Cost (TEC) This is the TCEC plus transportation, expenditures for facility acquisitions charged to the General, Special Project, and Capital Expansion (Tax Levy Financed “Sinking”) funds, and debt service principal and interest.
Total District Cost (TDC) This is TEC plus food and community service costs. It should be noted that food and community service activities are usually funded with fees and other program revenue, requiring little or no property tax subsidy.
From the above DPI site, here are the costs for Hudson for 2010 (latest data available): TCEC – $8,741, TEC – $10,055, TDC – $10,644
Hudson spends about $8,700 to cover the costs of teaching (hiring staff and buying supplies)
Hudson spends about $1,300 on transportation
Hudson spends about $600 on school lunch and other social supports for students
The state average for the TDC is $12,624. So, Hudson is doing things better than the average district in the state for $2,000 LESS per student.
Like or Dislike:
9 
9
Thank you, tax payers. Thank you for being a part of the system that creates the fine education our community is so proud of. I am one of you, and I know the sacrifices you make so that we can have the quality of community we have.
I do not thank you for your unkind words or your mean attitude, your uninformed rhetoric, or your name calling. Being unkind gets you nowhere, and earns you zero respect.
Like or Dislike:
14 
13
Where is the name calling? Pointing out excessive fringe benefits is name calling?
Like or Dislike:
10 
10
My numbers are from my tax statement. If someone else is paying $9,000, I can only deduce that they live in a more expensive house, on more land, or both. Maybe we should split the taxes so only those with children pay for the schools. I could lower my taxes by having my husband plow the road in front of my house, instead of paying my township worker. I choose to have a positive approach, and live in a society where we all help take care of each other. It is not my fault that someone else chooses a more negative outlook. That person, who only thinks of themself, will have a much lonelier existence.
And yes, 4 year old kindgergarten actually does benefit kids. I was a skeptic at first. Then I spoke with my friend who has a child the same age as mine in a district with no 4K. That child may have to repeat kindergarten, while mine goes on to 1st. With all the requirements they put on young children to become smarter sooner, it is necessary. I don’t agree with all the testing so young, but it is part of the public school package, which is what I choose for my kids. I also continued to pay daycare because it is only a half day program. 4K is a choice, just like public school. I could easily have sent my child to a private preschool, just like I could choose to send my children to private elementary and secondary schools.
Like or Dislike:
11 
11
you are taking one child compared to your child for why you now support 4 year old kindergarten? obviously you never had stats. my dad didn’t even go to kindergarten and graduated top of his class at all levels of education. hmmmm – guess with the example, we don’t need kindergartens!
Like or Dislike:
11 
8
You missed the point…it costs about 11,000 per year/per child. Someone else is paying the other 9,000 for your child.
Like or Dislike:
11 
9
Go to refocuswisconsin.com and see some interesting stats. Excerpts:
First, the pensions provided to public employees are substantially more generous than those provided to private-sector employees. It has not always been that way. Private-sector employers, buffeted by a barrage of national and international economic forces, have been forced to cut back on all of their costs, including employee pensions. Since the 1970s, private employers have moved away from the costly defined benefit plans—those that are similar to Wisconsin’s public pension plan—to less costly defined-contribution plans. In a 2009/2010 survey of Wisconsin and Illinois, only 8% of employers offered defined benefit plans. By contrast, 88% offered defined contribution plans. The most common form of defined benefit plans is the 401(K). Most such plans are employee sponsored, with the employees deciding on their own whether they wish to contribute to the plan.
While private-sector employees are seeing their retirement date pushed further into the future, Wisconsin public employees regularly retire well before their 65th birthday. The WPRI study showed that, for the Wisconsin Retirement System, the rate of retirement was significantly higher for those younger than 65. For example, 24% of 58-year-old men in the Wisconsin Retirement System who were eligible for retirement did retire.
In addition to retiring younger, Wisconsin public employees have richer retirement benefits. The WPRI study compared benefits side-by-side and found that the private-sector worker would need a salary of $70,000 to have retirement benefits comparable to a public employee earning $48,000.
Finally, the study compared how the cost of pensions is shared between employers and employees. The average private employer contributes 5.3% of payroll toward employee pensions. Contrast this with the estimated 11.1% of payroll Wisconsin public employers (taxpayers) are contributing toward employee pensions. Through collective bargaining, public employers have agreed to pick up all but .06% of the cost of employee pensions.
Pensions have become an issue of fairness. While private workers have seen their retirement plans wither away, Wisconsin public employees are retiring earlier, have far better retirement benefits and pay almost nothing for all of it. In this context, we can begin to understand the universally strong feelings that our polling is picking up regarding public employee pensions, to say nothing of the fact that taxpayers are paying for it all.
Like or Dislike:
13 
8
Tim, as several others have pointed out, the unions conceded the need to do this. Here in Hudson, the contract extension proposed by the union stipulated the increased pension contribution. I do not like the thought of reducing my pay by 6%, but we agreed to do that.
The fight is over whether or not workers have the right to collectively bargain or not. Simply because we are public employees does not abrogate our right to unionize and bargain collectively. Collective bargaining has been the law of the land for 50 years in WI. The state has not collapsed under the onerous weight of the unions. The economics of pensions have changed due, in large part, to the graying of the population and globalization forces. The unions acknowledge this and have agreed to help with the financial burden of pensions.
Here’s a question: why did our republican leaders in Madison not try to change WI’s system to a defined-contribution system, complete with the ability to opt out if I choose? That would save 100% of the costs (for employees who opt out), or significantly reduce the costs (for those who choose 401k/403b plans)? If the problem is financial, why choose a political “solution”? You need the right tool for the right job. Stripping collective bargaining is the tool you use if you want to be able to abuse your workers. Renegotiating your financial obligations is the tool you use if you want to get your financial house in order.
Like or Dislike:
13 
11
I don’t have collective bargaining and workers at my place of employment aren’t abused. Do you like paying dues so others have a job? If someone is mistreated where I work, they sue and if they were abused, they get tons of money, so employers don’t abuse employees. Unions were good 50 years ago, but they aren’t necessary now. There are laws that protect employees. Are you happy that you get paid by seniority instead of on performance? If my company underpays, or has below market benefits, people leave to companies that pay higher or have better benefits. Why is the teaching profession so different? Get rid of the unions and you may see better pay and better benefits. It’s an antiquated system that leads to inequites that are currently in place. Raises and benefits lag and don’t keep up with the current environment.
Like or Dislike:
14 
12
It’s good to hear that you have found a good company to work for. Not everyone is so lucky.
Where teaching is a bit different than some other fields, is that we are working with the public (in large numbers), and we are working with children (whose parents can be overprotective–though not all are), and we are in the business of evaluating the progress and achievement of human beings. These can be touchy subjects, made even more contentious when scholarships or college admissions hinge on the grades we give students.
As long as one human being has power over another human being, the possibility of abuse exists. Unions a way for workers to be sure that they will be backed up should they get a bad boss. They are also good because everyone knows up-front what is expected and what will not be tolerated on either side of the boss’ desk. Check into the meat-packing industry for examples of how an industry can put its needs before those of its employees. Check out international stories about sweat shops for examples. Check out recent fears of Chinese toys with lead paint because there was little to no oversight. Unions provide a measure of safety for their workers.
I personally would welcome a compensation system which acknowledges my performance. I do not know how to create such a system in a way that would be fair to all parties, but I’m sure that folks smarter than me could find a way to do it.
The laws which protect employees in this country have come, in large part, from the actions of unions. Remember history class and how kids got caught in industrial-revolution looms, or how workers had 12-hour days and only got Sundays off, or how company towns sucked every dime back out of workers’ pockets, or the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory? Remove the unions, and the employers are likely to chip away at the protections we all enjoy until the situation decays again to its previous levels. It’s human nature, and it’s history.
You mention lawsuits as a means to redress injury–that’s the union’s grievance process (but the grievance process is less expensive and faster, and does not consume public resources as do civil court cases).
Like or Dislike:
10 
10
stezz – again, private sector employee unions are still fully intact and public sector unions still have some collective bargaining rights, but it is limited (as it should be). do you really think the citizens would allow laws that protect workers to be repealed? give me a break. i fear the entitlement mentality rearing its ugly head in the US like it did in the UK over the weekend. what is so difficult for public employees to understand that there isn’t enough private sector money to support what you are demanding?!
Like or Dislike:
15 
9
The funny thing is that all of this conversation is a just wasted effort. Nobody is having their mind changed by the other side. The teachers hate to hear that there are a lot of folks that disagree with them and the average taxpayer (those that really don’t benefit financially from the system) are tired of picking up the tab. End of discussion.
Like or Dislike:
10 
10
I disagree, John. This whole conversation is the glory of democracy. We come together and share our views and try to forge ahead considering as many perspectives as we can. Maybe no one will change his or her mind, but maybe they will have a better understanding of what they believe and why they believe it. Instead of falling for simple Red/Blue, Fox/CNN sorts of divisive labels we’ll be reminded that Wisconsinites are violet moderates.
Like or Dislike:
15 
7
The glory of democracy is that Scott Walker and the Republicans won. The teachers are nothing more than a bunch of sore losers and whiners. There is no democracy in intimidation, coercion and other activities that resemble mafia like behavior. Get over it and wait for the next election. It will save you a lot of money not having to hire vagrants to collect recall signatures.
Like or Dislike:
13 
16
There have been so many generalizations on here for weeks. Can we be careful how we refer to groups of people?
First of all, not all of the teachers called in sick on 2/18. Can we say, “the teachers who called in sick on 2/18.”
It’s not just teachers canvassing and signing recall petitions. Can we say, “the people who are canvassing and signing recall petitions”?
It’s not just teachers protesting in Madison or the Hudson area. Can we say, “the people who are protesting in Madison or the Hudson area”?
I have seen firefighters, police, doctors, nurses, farmers, electricians, snowplow drivers, and plumbers to name a few at protests and recall locations. Why villianize teachers? Is this an issue about people being upset that some people in this state aren’t sitting back and taking Walker’s attacks, or is this an anti-teacher issue?
If people in Hudson are so outraged that teachers are so overpaid, I wonder why these same people aren’t complaining that the people in central office have too high of salaries, too many benefits, and too many perks? It’s sad to me that so many will so easily attack those working hard to educate Hudson’s children, instead of wondering what the people in the top sitting in their cushy offices are going to do to help the financial crisis of the district. I have not seen anything in the paper about salary or benefit concessions at the top. I have not seen anything about giving up free Blackberrys or other perks awarded them. When will that discussion happen? Why are only the teachers, custodians, cooks, and educational assistants being asked to fix this financial burden? If we are truly in this together, shouldn’t all Hudson employees help?
Like or Dislike:
19 
9
You bet the administration is part of the problem! And some of those discussions have been taking place in Hudson for the last 10 years or so. There was even a group last fall featured in the paper that discussed that very issue. It is absolutely a part of what needs to change.
What you are seeing out here is a reaction to the tantrum that the unions have thrown over recent developments in Madison. The teachers are part of that union. Unfortunately for the dedicated teachers who do not bow down to every wish of the union, teachers tend to be painted with a broad brush.
Could one teacher, who didn’t call in on 2/18, please step forward?
Could one teacher, who did call in sick on 2/18, please step forward?
The answer to both of these has been no…at least not publicly. Why?
That is a good question, because many people would like to know. Many parents, taxpayers, students, etc. are interested. But instead, they all seek cover under the shelter of the mighty union.
When teachers are willing to stand up as individuals and be evaluated on their own merit and in this case, their own actions, you will see respect for teachers rise considerably. Until that happens, the all for one, one for all mentality will also apply to how they are addressed by the public.
Like or Dislike:
13 
11
Teachers are experts, yes. But they are not professionals in their fields. Universities produce many experts, but not many professionals. Professionals in any field are made or broke in the open market. Most teachers would break in the open market. And we send our children to them to be raised by these “experts” for 16 years. That’s sick.
And anyone who uses textbooks to teach by…is not a pro. in my mind. No thanks, we’ll keep homeschooling in peace thank you.
Like or Dislike:
6 
3