State Sen. Mac Schneider testifies against UND nickname bill at hearing
March 7, 2011 at 6:15 am in Grand Forks Herald
Sen. Mac Schneider, a Democrat from North Dakota’s 42nd District in Grand Forks, today testified against House Bill 1263 at a Senate Education Committee hearing. The following is the text of Schneider’s testimony. Continue Reading
I think those Senator Schneider represents should be proud. That was an eloquent statement. He clearly destroys the myth of the “dumb jock.” I totally agree with Schneider. Scneider for governor.
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Glenn you sound like Ed Schultz. Mac Schneider is Ed Schultz Jr. He will change his position to get himself in the spotlight, regardless of what you read in the article that is the unfortunate reality. Do not doubt this.
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Leif and David — both of your comments rather seriously disregard the substance and context of the insightful and eloquent testimony delivered yesterday by State Senator Mac Schneider to the Senate Education Committee — testimony which was published in abridged form in today’s editions of the Grand Forks Herald. Sadly — your comments — long on “heat”, and woefully short on “light” as they are — represent the very kind of limited and parochial outlook which gave birth to House Bill 1263 in the first place. The primary sponsor of HB 1263 — House Majority Leader Al Carlson (Republican-Fargo) — has loudly characterized himself as a North Dakota State University “Bison.” As an NDSU “Bison”, Carlson, evidently has no interest whatsoever in furthering either the short or long-term best-interests of NDSU Bison arch-rival University of North Dakota, and its athletic programs. If NDSU guy Carlson’s HB 1263 should become law — it is not only the NCAA which will punish UND in a number of respects well beyond the loss of “home field advantage” in playoff games. Before the now-expired settlement of the State v. NCAA lawsuit occurred, UND — with its “Fighting Sioux” nickname — was a pariah and outcast among mainstream Division I universities, particularly in terms of scheduling in all sports except hockey. So many universities flatly refused to schedule UND in Division I sports (other than WCHA hockey) such as the University of Minnesota, the University of Wisconsin, and many others. The UND Alumni Association’s (and the REA’s) desperate clinging to the “Fighting Sioux” nickname delayed UND’s admission to established Division I conferences –until the Big Sky Conference finally admitted UND after the “Fighting Sioux” nickname issue was properly resolved by the State Board of Higher Education — after no vote by enrolled members of the Standing Rock Reservation was even on the horizon — a situation that remains unchanged today. Perhaps Representative Carlson proposes to enjoy the perpetual limbo of stunted and unsuccessful athletic programs which the success of Carlson’s HB 1263 would bring to my alma mater UND — but I want no such future for an institution which I hold dear, in my own life’s experience. Furthermore, — when you speak of “80 years of tradition” for the “Fighting Sioux” nickname, David — you are quite wrong. The “Fighting” part of the “Fighting Sioiux” nickname is a comparatively recent phenomenon — having been created by former UND hockey public address announcer Scott Hennen in the mid-1980′s, when Scott’s bellowing voice would come thundering through the arena speakers with the growl, ” . . . and here are your FIGHTING SIOUX!” Prior to that era — the UND “Sioux” were just that. They were not the “Fighting Sioux” — until Scott Hennen and some folks in the UND Athletic Department who thought that Scott’s modified nickname “Fighting Sioux” would be good for marketing. As far as your claim of “80 years of tradition” goes — the time since 1930 when UND’s nickname changed from the “Flickertail” bird to the “Sioux” — is really comparatively short, in relation to the many other schools nicknames and mascots which have changed with the times — including the Darmouth “Indians”, the St. Johns University (New York) “Redmen” and many others. Personally, I believe that the REA and the UND Alumni Association — hand-in-glove organizations during the Earl Strinden days — arrogantly mishandled the nickname issue from day one. Rather than decide to go back to the “Sioux” name — while abandoning Scott Hennen’s “Fighting Sioux” moniker — and approach North Dakota’s Native American tribes in a spirit of conciliation and respect — the REA and UND alumni crew adopted a rigid and hostile “our way or the highway” game plan which, in my opinion, led to an inability to defend the “Sioux” nickname at all. And now — unfortunately in so many respects — its too late. Under Attorney Genreal Wayne Stenehjem’s supervision, more than $1-million was spent in the State v. NCAA lawsuit which was just getting started. Now, Carlson in his HB 1263 wants North Dakota’s taxpayers to sign on for an anti-trust lawsuit against the NCAA that will make the Grand Forks County nickname suit seem like child’s play. If $1-million was spent in that latter case — a “bottomless pit” of many times that amount would have to be thrown into the breach for a broad-based anti-trust attack on the NCAA. Leif and David — I also take serious offense at your criticism of Mac Schneider — a guy who literally bled “Sioux green and white” as a Captain and All-Conference and All-American player on a UND football team that won a National Championship. But in the end — when “NDSU Bison guy” Carlson wants to pass a bill which will unquestionably harm UND student athletes for many years in the future — both this reality — and Carlson’s suspect motives — speak conclusively in favor of the North Dakota Senate voting down House Bill 1263 — and I truly hope it does so.
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I do give you credit for the new twist, that somehow Carlson is manipulating the issue to gain some kind of advantage for NDSU….yeh…that falls into the “home field advantage” category of colossally stu…uh…..ridiculous.
Then you cite the “changes†others have made: “including the Dartmouth “Indiansâ€, the St. Johns University (New York) “Redmen†and many othersâ€
OK , well how about the Seminoles, Illini, Utes, and all the other human groups, the most glaring example “Fighting Irish.†It amazes me that you have looked into this issue at all and not seen the hypocrisy of the NCAA and UND administration.
And if you are worried about the million the incompetent Stenehjem wasted on the idiotic agreement he stuck us with, maybe a malpractice lawsuit is in order.
The way I see it, is that UND made a promise to Mr. Englestad when they let him put up HIS 100 million dollars, to build the REA. They had the option to stand on their convictions at the time, but they did ….what? They let it be built.
Now that he is gone they attack, like Jackals. (no offense meant to Jackals, they probably don’t deserve to be lumped with this bunch). So give him back his 100 million or shut up about the money.
It appears you fall into the same camp as these fellas…the…it is gonna hurt the UND athletic program, it is too expensive, blah, blah, blah.
(repost)
It appears to me that Kelley and all of his sycophants, including the courageous Jon Backes of the SBHE, are mainly concerned with the problems that keeping the Fighting Sioux name will create for the University, due to the sanctions imposed by the NCAA. I suppose those concerns are genuine. At least I can believe that they believe that is the case.
Apparently, what is right or wrong does not enter into their thinking, only what is convenient and expedient.
So I ask, Kelley, Faison, Backes and the Board, (and now YOU) which is it?
1) The name needs to go because the use of the name is hostile and abusive, in agreement with the NCAA.
or
2) The use of the name is NOT hostile and abusive, in disagreement with the NCAA. But the name needs to go anyway because of sanctions imposed by the NCAA.
I can respect your answer one way or the other. What I cannot abide is your cowardice.
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“Cowardice”, David? Really, now — are you that untethered? Apparently so. By loosely throwing around words like “cowardice”, you actually display a lack of courage yourself — as you evidently believe yourself to be incapable of carrying on a fact-based adult discussion about this serious issue upon its merits. Cowards often refuse to deal with reality — as it takes courage to address the circumstances of life as they really are. While the State Board of higher Education may well have exhibited a temporary lapse of courage when it “took no position”, relative to House Bill 1263 when it was pending in the House of Representatives, the Board rectified this non-stance when it stood up to oppose this injurious bill as it is considered by the Senate. Before the “Fighting Sioux” were so-named by Scott Hennen in the 1980′s, they were simply nicknamed the “Sioux” — dating back to the yearf 1930. And before that, UND athletic teams were nicknamed the “Flickertails” after a bird — I think the north Dakota State Bird. Beyond anything else, David — the “Flickertails”, or the “Sioux”, or the “Fighting Sioux” — in the end — are just college nicknames. My rewarding experience at UND was what it was because of my friendships with fellow students, faculty members, and staff at the university — and the fine education that I received at UND, which gives me an expansive perspective on the world, and enables me to compete every day with graduates of big-name colleges and universities — including Ivy League schools. Ultimately, when UND does go beyond this current painful and divisive chapter — hopefully without being chained to the dead weight and continuing NCAA liability of a “Fighting Sioux” nickname that only surfaced in the mid-1980′s — the sun will still come up, and ultimately UND will no longer continue to be debilitated by the the obsessive craziness of too many people — I dare say most of whom never received a degree at a four-year college in their lives — people who just don’t have enough things of value going on in their lives. I really hope you are not one of those folks — but your last comment particularly indicates that you likely are.
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Very pretty…..but you didn’t answer the question.
You won’t answer because you don’t have the courage to stand up for what you believe in…you can call it what you want. If coward offends you…well….let’s use…tentative to make a stand….better?
and please spare us another “history of the name” lecture.
Oh yes…there is the “If you were as smart and educated as me” argument.
Answer the question…smart guy.
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Oh yeah…smart and educated man….Flickertail was the name given to gophers back in the day.
Too bad that “rewarding experience” at UND, didn’t include an education.
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David — the very fact that you believe that the North Dakota Legislative Assembly should require UND to be shackled with the “Fighting Sioux” nickname — regardless of the short and long-term consequences to the university and (most of all) its students — is, unfortunately, a narrow and short-sighted perspective. While the First Amendment of the United States Constitution surely protects the enunciation of such opinions — we all are imperiled when narrow, short-sighted mentality is transposed into law by our legislative decision-makers — such as House Majority Leader Carlson proposes with his House Bill 1263. David — you self-servingly cast yourself as a person of principle, claiming that defense of the “Fighting Sioux” nickname is “right” — and that all those who believe that HB 1263 will seriously harm UND, its students and its standing — are “cowards” who are tarring all North Dakotans as “hostile and abusive” racists. Put kindly, such “black and white” thinking is absurd. And believe me — I am not “afraid” to express my personal opinions — on this or any other issue. I do it — in spades — every day in my career. My personal opinion is that the 1930-instituted UND nickname “Sioux” — without Scott Hennen’s mid-1980′s addition of the “Fighting” modifier — would have been ok. And rather than blindly defend a “Fighting Sioux” nickname — a nickname that Ralph Engelstad nimself never knew in his two years at UND in the early 1950′s — a strategy to defend the “Sioux” nickname should have been pursued — while reaching out to North Dakota Native Americans. And by reaching out — I mean proposing to share licensed merchandise “Sioux” income with the the Sioux or Lakota tribes. You mention above the NCAA’s allowing Florida State University to continue to use the nickname “Seminoles.” Hopefully you know why that is. Specifically, the NCAA allows FSU to continue to use the “Seminoles’ nickname because the Seminole Tribe agrees with the practice, licenses the name to FSU, and gets a significant percentage of the revenue generated by the sale of FSU “Seminole” merchandise. In contrast, here in North Dakota, the arrogant REA itself copywrited the UND “Sioux logo” — and the REA, and the UND Alumni Association apparently never proposed a FSU-type licensing deal to North Dakota’s Sioux Tribes. In Florida — FSA and the Seminole Tribe have a mutually-profitable partnership, where the “Seminole’ nickname is concerned. But here in North Dakota, the REA’s “our way or no way” strategy wrote a bad ending for the “Siouix” nickname — an outcome which I believe is as unfortunate as it was unnecessary.
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So now you admit that the name is not offensive, but because of the sanctions and problems from the NCAA, the name has to change. If I understand your answer.
Then, you go on to say it is OK to let the NCAA off the hook for their decision to allow the Seminoles to be “hostile and abusive” to Native Americans because….of well…THE MONEY.
Obviously….I am the narrow minded one in this conversation.
If I could quote Margie from “Fargo” “and for what? a little bit of money”
But at least you had the courage to answer the question, unlike Kelley and company.
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Well, David, of course you miss the central point again. The “Seminole” nickname of Florida State University was specifically found to be not “hostile and abusive” — specifically because the Seminole Tribe itself — unlike at least the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and perhaps the Sisseton Band as well — have not approved the use of the “Fighting Sioux” or “Sioux” nicknames for UND. FSU approached the situation with the Seminoles correctly — while the arrogance of the REA and the UND Alumni Association during the Earl Strinden years did just about everything wrong, relative to outreach to North Dakota’s Sioux Tribes when it mattered — between six and 13 or so years ago. Because of that arrogance and ham-handed approach by the REA and the Strinden-led UND Alumni Association — it has been too late to change the negative course of events for the intervening number of years. And that’s too bad , to say the least.
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So….what you are saying is that the Seminole tribe that happens to be within a certain distance of the campus in Florida decides whether the use of the name is Hositle and Abusive for the entire Seminole nation?
The same applies here, do the Sioux tribes within a certain distance decide what is hostile and abusive? What is this “magic” distance? Is it 50 miles or 100 miles or 500 miles….makes no sense.
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So let me get this straight, the sole reason that the Seminole name and logo is ok is because the Seminole tribe said it was, and the reason they said it was, is because they are paid. So it’s not really that the name/logo is not hostile and abusive it’s just that UND doesn’t pay the tribes out of their pocket to use it.
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I will have to assume (because you didn’t address this issue) that you are NOT in favor of giving back to the Englestads the well over 100 million dollars that UND could have refused when this controversy came up during construction?
oh..sorry…that’s right…it’s all about the money….
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You’re just not tracking, David. The Seminole Nation itself — regardless of mile radius from FSU — has long been involved in a licensing and merchandising partnership with FSU which includes the Tribe licensing its name and certain of its Seminole Native American imagery for use as FSU logos. Try as they have repeatedly — while spending large sums of money to generate support from North Dakota Native Americans — the REA has been unable to secure the approval of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe for UND to use the “Fighting Sioux” nickname. As far as Ralph and Betty Engelstad and their money are concerned — [and by the way a lot more than $100-million is involved, when you factor in the Betty Engelstad basketball arena] — neither the Engelstads nor the REA could buy off the NCAA, as they may have bought some support or paid “consultants” in the Native American community. however, we may never have any answers about the latter point, because “The Ralph” refuses to open up its books to the public. As far as the Engelstad’s commitment of very large sums of money are concerned — they well knew when they were having the original REA facility constructed that there was an ongoing controversy over the “Fighting Sioux” nickname. After Ralph Engelstad at one point threatened to eslk sesy from the project entirely and leave the partially-built arena as an eyesore for those of us here in Grand Forks to look at. UND and the State Board of Higher Education more than upheld their side of the deal with the Engelstads –attempting to defend the “Fighting Sioux” nickname through the Courts and otherwise a well.
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I think you are not tracking.
The point is:
The NCAA says that the use of Native American Imagery is “Hostile and Abusive” to Native Americans. Correct?
The NCAA also says that (according to you, The “Seminole†nickname of Florida State University was specifically found to be not “hostile and abusive†). Correct?
Which is it?
Now if you say it is because the Seminoles within a certain distance of the FSU Campus in Florida can decide what is Hostile and Abusive for the entire NCAA or the United States or the entire planet earth…..I don’t know what to say.
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Another politician who’s already learned to talk out of both sides of his mouth, what a surprise!
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I love and support the Sioux nickname with or without the fighting part.
The Standing Rock Tribal Council and the NCAA are to blame for all these issues.
1. If the Tribal Council would stop holding the people of the Standing Rock Tribe hostage and let them have a vote on it.
If the people vote it down, it’s over and most over the nickname supporter would say let’s move on.
If they vote for it, great let’s move on with life, the Sioux people’s voices have been heard.
2. The NCAA can’t have it both ways. Either you have ethic named sports teams or you don’t.
There is no unbiased way to say oh, Florida State your Ok, North Dakota you can’t and Notre Dame you can.
This has to be a black and white subject to be fair, there can be no gray.
So if one has to go they all should go.
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