by Grand Forks Herald
February 21, 2011 at 1:15 pm in Grand Forks Herald
“This is a good day,” Jody Hodgson said Monday, shortly after the North Dakota House voted 65-28 to pass a bill that would direct UND to keep its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.
Tags: archie fool bear, Don Barcome Jr, Leigh Jeanotte, peter johnson, sioux nickname, UND, UND nickname, updates 30 Comments »
When will this nonsense end???????
Hot debate. What do you think? 29 31
Hopefully after the State Senate votes and the Governor signs this legislation, then the majority will be heard and will have spoken.
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And it still won’t change anything with the NCAA or with the tribes.
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I thought it was coming to an end with the university working on transitioning to a non Fighting Sioux name and logo, but our brilliant legislatures had to step in and stir it all up again. I guess there’s nothing else to deal with in Bismarck right now…
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The media has to enjoy the craziness of this. There have been more ups and downs to this fight than any roller coaster I have been on. Just when you think this is over, it gets in full swing again.
Hot debate. What do you think? 29 23
My question through all of this battle, are the American Indians getting free schooling because of the nickname? So if the nickname changes do they not get free schooling anymore? Anyone clarify for me?
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@ smile, I donâ€™t believe the grants and scholarships awarded to the Native American are in any way tied to the logo and Sioux name use. I highly doubt loosing the use of the Sioux name and logo will jeopardize any funding for the Native Americans. I cannot provide any clarification. Indian Affairs on campus would be a better avenue for clarification.
I would also have to believe the Tribes provide funding for their students to attend college at UND, NDSU or wherever they might want to educate themselves.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 11 21
No, Native American’s are not getting free schooling because of the name. And @ how i cit, not all tribes provide funding for students to attend college. I am Native American and I do have some scholarships but only 1 is a tribal scholarship and it is the smallest one I have. I get loans, and grants and the scholarships I have been rewarded, not because of my ethnicity but because of my academics.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 27 4
Thanks for clearing that up Rachel and providing feedback for the rest of us. This is a very complex issue and most including myself do not fully understand or appreciate the varied opinions or views of both sides.
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I just want to thank Ms. Eunice Davidson, Mr. Fool Bear & the Facebook page “We the Peopl of North Dakota Demand Answewrs Save Fighting Sioux” for their hard work to peserve the intent of their ancestors. FYI – the FB page is the creation of Danielle, a tireless worker to save the name/logo & a member of the Spirit Lake community.
In closing, lets not go down the negative road, i.e.: Native American students education. This fight is about the positives (& education is foremost of those positives) that have come from the relationship between Native Americans and the other citizens of our great state.
Hot debate. What do you think? 24 14
I just want to thank Ms. Eunice Davidson, Mr. Archie Fool Bear & the Facebook page “We the People of North Dakota Demand Answers Save Fighting Sioux” for their hard work to preserve the intent of their ancestors. FYI – the FB page is the creation of Danielle S., a tireless worker to save the UND name/logo & a member of the Spirit Lake community.
The House vote is just one step in a long journey!
In closing, lets not go down the negative road, i.e.: Native American students. This fight is about the positives – and education is one of the greatest accomplishments – that have come from the relationship between Native Americans and the other citizens of our great state.
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The logo has nothing to do with educational accomplishments..Or if it does I don’t see a connection. From my point of view.. I see them just wanting to keep the logo because it’s a tradition and they “honor” and “respect” it and all this. I do know most people respect it and honor and that some Native American’s see it that way, but a majority do not. Most minorities wouldn’t want a well known college using a stereotypical mascot of their culture. EX: Mexicans wouldn’t want a typical sombrero wearing mascot, black/African Americans wouldn’t want a mascot of them, neither would Asians, Latinos, etc..as Native American’s don’t want an American Indian head as UND’s mascot. Most of the people who want to keep the logo are Caucasion/White/Mixed/etc…, and they are the Majority which is why they don’t see the view from our side. Which is why most of the Senate and House are white (I am saying white as a general term I know there is German, Hungarian, Irish and so on ancestry). They are the one’s who are voting to keep it and that isn’t a fair vote.
This issue would be a whole HUGE, different thing if American Indian’s on a reservation were being asked to change their school mascot that was a white guy. Imagine if you were white and lived on a reservation (which would make you the minority), and the school had a white mascot and you experienced racism and your educational experience had negative memories like being called a fu**** honkey, or redneck, or Native American’s trying to pick fights with you because their mascots name were the “Fighting Whities”, and they said “so you’re a fighting whitie huh let’s see if you can fight?” and the Indian’s pushed you around. Or every time you walked into class you felt like you were being singled out and that people were just talking about you and felt hate towards you (ALL of these I know people who have, or I experienced them myself). .and once you did finally get them to change it you were still reminded of it everyday by everyone’s Tshirts, our sports arena, shouting at sports events, and the logo was everywhere but we said we “retired” it. BUT once this issue hit the Tribal Gov’t we voted to keep it even longer b/c there wasn’t a majority of white ppl in our gov’t…this is getting long but ..I know most people respect it but b/c of what I’ve said is the reason they want it retired.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 18
Rachel, anytime you liberals play the race card you show your true weakness. This is 2011, please let this racism nonense go. I am a Fighting Sioux supporter, I am an American, and I am not racist.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 21
No, I am not playing the race card. I am trying to explain why those that do want the logo gone, want it retired. I’m not liberal, I don’t affiliate with any political party. I don’t think that just because I am native American that I am entitled to all these benefits “because our land was stolen”, No. I am simply trying to explain in my point of view and what I have experienced, why the the name should be retired. I am not a one sided person BUT like I said I am trying to explain why they want the logo retired which is moral issues.
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Proud American, any time conservatives try to play the anti-race card, you end up looking like an idiot. Please let your false-impressions or Regan and an ideal whitewashed world nonsense go.
Contrary to your belief, your accusation of the race card makes you racist. Racist.
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Can someone tell me why the legislature is involve? It will not change the NCAA. Who will pay to take them to court? We will. I did not send these people to Bismarck to take up the Sioux nickname issue. Nickname supporters need to get a life and find something else to do with their time. Either that or enjoy championship free sports as the NCAA will not let us participate with the current name and logo. Period. I’m embarrassed to be from Grand Forks and North Dakota right now. Unbelievable.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 19
Hey Steve, if you are so embarrassed to be from here, then move. Fighting Sioux supporters have just as much right to their opinion as you do. Also, the legislature is involved becaused they are elected by the people of North Dakota, and last time I checked the University of North Dakota was a PUBLIC institution. By the way, if you do want to move away because you’re so embarrassed, let me know and I’ll pay for your moving truck.
Hot debate. What do you think? 23 17
We can all have an opinion, but why do we keep kicking this dead horse? The NCAA has made their position clear. This action will not change it. I don’t think tax payers should have to foot the bill for Fighting Sioux supporters legal battles.
I enjoy this area, but the attitudes of some residents leave me baffled. It’s just a name and a picture. It doesn’t define a team or a University. Students and staff do that. Winning a game or receiving a degree has nothing to do with a name and a picture.
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Fighting Whities? Since when is white a race. Trojan was a race, Spartan was a race and Fighting Irish is a race. I don’t know if all were white, tan or any other color, they were just people that were warriors, fighters, that showed strength against all odds. I think there are non-white people that are born in Ireland. I don’t think you have to be white to be Irish. As for stereotypical white people, there are several positive images; cowboys, pioneers, rough riders, roughnecks, boilermakers and on and on. Sorry, your argument doesn’t hold water.
Hot debate. What do you think? 15 16
Yes white is a race, and like I said below maybe I should of used Fighting Irish Or Fighting German w/e. Like how Native American’s have sub-groups like Sioux, Chippewa, etc. The point is that those people from those ethnic backgrounds who had a similar culture to Native American’s would be offended if we used their names in a way that caused racism. I don’t see your whole point with that part saying stereotypical white people have positive images?? If you want to go there Native Americans have positive images but they are often made fun of or used negatively. That’s your opinion you are going to think you are right but this is my opinion and you don’t have to agree with it or not. I’m just trying to give insight No need to get all defensive
@ bully. White is actually a race. There is actually no such thing as race, race is just a term that we have coined up to describe different skin colors. However, white is defined as “origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. This includes people who indicate their race as â€œWhiteâ€ or report entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish”, by the US Census in 2010. So “white” is recognized as a race. and you are right Maybe I should of said, “Fighting Irish”. But Native American’s are different, look in any history book. We preserve our culture and still practice it today. I’m not trying to be all like”we were here 1st and the white man took our land”, No I am pointing out that it was different historically. People coming from Europe didn’t have to go through the same things we did. but the fact is that historically We were first & when Columbus came he mistook us for Indians (Indonesians type). Yes most Irish people wouldn’t get offended but b/c Native American’s value our culture and try to keep it alive in a society where we use to be oppressed and put into foster homes to be culturally assimilated & all of these other factors, we don’t like to see a a Native American logo that is used disrespectfully. And you are right not all Irish people are white, neither is all Native American’s brown. I know plenty who have white skin, pinkish skin, freckles, blonde hair, blue eyes, etc. I know that if we used a German as a mascot than those that value their German Heritage would be offended if they experienced racism. Or if we used a Cambodian mascot in a way that was negative and disrespectful to Cambodian individuals they would want it changed. It is different for minorities than for “white” people. I Said earlier I was using white as a general term. I am assuming @ Bully that you are for the logo. The only reason that the people supporting it “respect” the Native Americans is so that they can use the logo if it wasn’t for that reason I am almost positive there wouldn’t be as much support for the Native American community. You know in 2009 they canceled the Wacipi Time-Out Pow Wow due to “lack of funds” and support from the community. Hmmmm…that is suprising because for as long as I could remember the Pow Wow ALWAYS went on each each year, but in 2009 is when UND were told they had to retire it, they canceled it b/c of “lack of funds”. The pow wow brings in thousands of dollars to GF each year from hotels, restaurants, etc, so why wouldn’t somebody support it? We are a minority and the American Indian groups on campus have a percentage of what other groups have for members. Amazing how that happened in the mist of the logo issue. And when there is pow wow’s I rarely see any “white” college aged kids going to it. It is very rare, and they are welcome and the native american groups on campus advertise that ANYONE is welcome, yet probably less than 5-10% of ppl that attend are non-native. The whole Native American community were mad, at least the ones I encountered, when we found out the Pow Wow was canceled b/c that is part of our culture and a time that is looked forward to every single year. We were mad and disappointed in UND B/C the fact that it was around the time where the logo issue was getting hot and I am almost certain that had a reason to do with it. You do NOT know what it is like to experience being singled out and being the minority and experiencing the racism I have BECAUSE of the logo so you have no room to talk…That being said if they don’t retire it there will always be a group fighting to change it and there will be constant issues and tension. That’s why they should just retire it. This whole logo issue wouldn’t be brought up in the first place if the logo was used right OR if UND could of thought of a better mascot. The mascot is 70 something years old, it’s still young why not think of a new one that won’t be disrespectful to certain groups. If it’s retired now, the next generation won’t even remember it and it will save decades of disrespect and hurtful racism. There is plenty occasions I can think of when racism happened, so don’t try to say that you don’t see it, Of course you don’t b/c you aren’t the one it is targeted at. & I keep seeing that 1 tribe they use as an example of “Native American’s that are for the logo” highlighted in the news but why don’t they highlight all the other tribes that oppose it? The Native American population that supports it is primarily younger, the one’s that oppose are both and older and more traditional. I am just sick of seeing the constant struggle to keep it, one day UND will have to get rid of it for good why not do it now so they can host their Division 1 Games and all the other benefits that come with retiring it.
Hot debate. What do you think? 15 21
I love the Sioux name and logo. I am so proud of it. But, I am tired of this never ending battle and feel it’s time to stop fighting. The fight will never end until one side takes the high road…let it be us, the loyal Sioux.
I attended and graduated from UND (and am still involved with the University through my work) and never, ever did I hear or see students degrading or abusing Native Americans. I’m not saying it NEVER happens, but it’s got to be just a few idiots who do it. It just totally shocks me when I hear testimonials like yours, Rachel, that describe this abuse. Maybe I wear rose-colored glasses but I don’t think so.
That being said…it’s been a long hard fought battle, but it’s time to make peace and move on.
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There is plenty of testimonials & it does happen. I do respect everyone’s opinion (unless its offensive or disrespectful of course) but if anyone should win in this situation it should be those Native American’s that want it gone. I keep saying this but they are underrepresented & if we let Sioux fans win, it would just be another “”majority” battle won. You want the logo because you are loyal fans and we want it gone b/c of moral and cultural issues. I am sure in most situations you would choose the more moral option. I just know that if a certain ethnic group or minority group wanted a mascot gone b/c they felt unwelcome and that it didn’t go with their moral values, I would work to getting rid of it even if I was a loyal fan b/c that is theirs. I do feel sorry for when they do retire it for those fans, because I know there is some who respect it and love it but this issue is going on to long. The line just has been crossed to many times and that’s why the opposers of the nickname are fighting so hard to get rid of it.
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It’s just not Native Americans that want it gone it’s others also *** i meant to say..once again I am not trying to pull the race card..just trying to give insight from a personal perspective
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Rachel, you are right-they are under represented. The people of SR, the majority, want a vote-they want to be HEARD.
I am a UND alum, who by the way, is also Mexican. I wouldn’t give a hoot if someone had a Mexican wearing a sombrero..w/e!
As much as I want the logo and name to REMAIN, if the people of SR (THE PEOPLE, not their repressive leadership) voted to change it, well honestly I would respect and support that.
Until that happens, THANKFULLY, we have some legislative leaders who are trying to right this wrong, GO SIOUX!!!!!!!!!
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Totally agree with you NDer. I have said that for years, in order to have closure on either side, just let them VOTE! Whatever the outcome, life will go on & the sun will come up, but it will be a sad, very sad reality to lose something that is valued by so many of all races/ethnicity. The Senate discussion and vote will be a very interesting journey. I hope people let their Senators kow how they feel, on both sides of the issue. Our Senators need to know wher their constituents stand on this issue…
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That’s why I said the native american culture is different from other cultures.. ask any historian. I am saying all this based on what I learned through school and what I learned from my family. Like you are mexican..not all would oppose it..Just how not all native american’s oppose it.
EITHER WAY .. =To the supporters of the nickname–Go to the Time Out Pow Wow this year which is the weekend of April 4th I believe, and vote how many people want it gone, or get up and make a speech in front of everyone on Saturday (the busiest day) about why you support the logo..and see what kind of response you get. The fighting Sioux logo is covered up for a reason in the Hyslop center during the TIme Out Pow Wow
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Rachel brings up a good point, and one that I haven’t seen a nickname supporter even come close to arguing against.
Last year, nickname supporters held a candlelight walk in “memory” of the nickname. On the same night as the Grand March of the Wacipi. What a great opportunity to show your support…
Oh…wait. The nickname supporters walked on by, and instead had a really poor rendition of the national anthem and a not-so-rousing speech on the steps of a dorm. If that’s “honor,” I sure hope that they never decide to honor me!
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1. The legislature is spending mostly oil revenue
2. UND has played big name teams such as Texas Tech, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Kansas, Gonzaga in sports other than hockey
3. The logo does not hurt the university, most students go about their business every day without any problem
4. UND is doing great educating students, and does just fine with the logo
5. The anti logo supporters have made lies and many are not even Sioux
6. Have you realized that there are native americans on both side of the issue, so calling anyone racist is uncalled for
7. The UND students overwhelmingly support the Sioux logo, why would they wear it and cheer for it if they did not like it?
8. UND Student Government should have no say in the issue, students were never made aware of this huge issue as it was snunk through the cracks, and the vote was nearly 50-50
9. Have you ever heard of the Utes tribe other than from the Utah Utes sport teams, nope: History about Native Americans is very regionalized from state to state. Many Native Americans are proud their name represents a college on the national scale.
10. Who makes the decision to cover up the logo at the Pow wow? How do they know everyone opposes the nickname? Are they even all Sioux?
11. Have you ever seen the respect that UND fans show at hockey games? You can talk to many native americans about this respect and they are honored!
12. Have you ever met someone who is Sioux that supports the nickname? I would try it because they can tell you why it is so important to them. It reaffirms why you try so hard to support the logo
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