N.D. House votes to keep Fighting Sioux nickname, logo
February 21, 2011 at 7:39 am in Grand Forks Herald
On a 65-28 vote, the House approved House Bill 1263, which states University of North Dakota athletic teams shall be known as the Fighting Sioux. Neither UND nor the state Board of Higher Education may take action to discontinue the use of the nickname or logo. Continue Reading
Hey PC crowd, do you like apples? How’d ya like them apples?
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Thank you ND politicians for this, now you have invited all the Sioux tribes to sue you for the unlawful use of their name, including Standing Rock. In case you all don’t know there are more than two Sioux tribes.
The Natives will get their money for all that was stolen from them for centuries, by ND, one way or another.
Taxpayers will pay for the folly of our policticians!
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It’s refreshing to have the House of Reps stand up for the majority of N.D. citizens and for the Spirit Lake Nation. Thank you legislators. Senate, now it’s your turn. Sioux yeah yeah!!!
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Well if the majority of North Dakotan’s are for this, why haven’t there been more comments. I for one am upset that my tax dollars are going to something so trivial when there real issues they need to be addressing.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Oliver, how’d you decide what the majority of North Dakota citizens want? I personally know quite a few people out there who really don’t care (I would guess the majority of North Dakotans fall into this group, but I don’t have any data), I know there a lot of people who are opposed, and I know there are a lot of people who support the nickname, but I don’t know what the majority thinks, so just wondering how you managed to know.
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I hate to put a damper on everyone’s parade, but you are overlooking one very important fact: after the legislature tried to run the university system into the ground during the 1970s and 1980s, authority and responsibility for North Dakota colleges and universities were moved to the State Board. The legislature has no power to mandate any changes. They can defund the university system, but they cannot force any changes. So, unless there is a move to ammend the state constitution, it is a moot point. Face it, the vote was purely symbolic.
That said, it will be interesting to see how things pan out: will the Senate choose to take up the bill or let it die a neglected death? If passed, will the Governor sign or veto it?
Unfortunately, whatever happens will take time and resources, commodities which could be better utilized elsewhere.
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hey flyingnurse, read the bill. It calls for the Fighting Sioux name and logo to be written into the state constitution. 65-28… the majority has spoken and finally we’ve been heard. Sioux Yeah Yeah!!!
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Chris, the bill writes into the Century Code, not the Constitution, if your going to berate someone, at least learn how to read. The bill is and always will be unconstitutional.
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You are forgetting that while it may be fought as unconstitutional, ND residents retain RECALL, REFERENDUM, AND INITIATED MEASURE. Any citizen can place a constitutional amendment before the people with petitions equal to 2% of the voters from the last general election.
I guess THEN we would find out what the name would be.
Those of you in the faculty lounge who don’t know anybody who wants the nickname remind me of the person who was shocked that Nixon won in 1972…because they didn’t know a single person who voted for him. You need to get out into the state and talk to people. Maybe show up at a hockey game.
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Not forgetting, just pretty sure that a constitutional amendment to keep a nickname is not going to come soon enough (or ever) to save the nickname
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That’s right and the continued controversy drives UND further and further away from division 1 athletics. Wasted time and taxpayer money on a dumb name.
The vote means nothing and is just the typical pandering by politicians.
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UND is already D-1 so how will they not be D-1. Even if they were D-2 they would still be NCAA. So you think NCAA will kick us out of everything. Can’t happen.
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Just watch and see.
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Actually we have not completed our transition yet so we are not DI. The NCAA could choose to delay or transition or flat out deny it if they choose. I sure hope our legislatures know what they are doing because if they don’t, they could be serious handicapping our athletic department for years to come.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I personally like the nickname, but I don’t think all you who support this vote realize the problems it creates for Sioux athletics. You will never host an NCAA event until this issue is decided. And I know that doesn’t matter much to most of you who only care about hockey, but I’m sure it makes a huge difference to many who play in the other sports. And by the way, for you hockey people, have you thought about this? If the Big Ten actually does start a hockey conference, and Minnesota and Wisconsin pull out of the WCHA, that’s it for Gopher or Badger games. The Big Ten policy is not to play you, and the only reason they do now in hockey is because you are in the same conference. Bottom line, be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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The big ten hockey conference is never going to happen… at least not anytime soon. The arrogent fools at Penn state think that they can create a hockey program out of thin air and make it a D1 contender within one year and I can guarantee you this is not the case. Not to mention that the NCAA would not let a big ten conference be created right now because it would dismantle the current league setup. Lets allow Penn state to get through their first season and then we’ll see where this big ten idea goes. Oh and the whole arguement about UND not being able to host NCAA events, big deal. In ten years UND has hosted one NCAA event. Dropping an 80 year tradition just for the CHANCE to host one event every 10 years is not a viable option. The money lost in ticket and merch sales as a result of dropping the name and logo would be far more substantial than any loss we would see from not being able to host NCAA events. The NCAA is not going to ban UND from participating in any events because of this issue. That is not their place and they know it, read the mission statement of the NCAA, particularly number 6. Myles Brand was the one who started this whole thing and he is gone now. The thing you people don’t realize is that losing the name and logo would be a MAJOR recruiting disadvantage. These kids come to our campus and see the amazing facilities such as the Ralph, and all the pride associated with our beloved Sioux name, this is why they chose to come here. Nickname opponents always bring up the idea of UND athletics suffering from the consequences of keeping the name. What about the consequences of losing the name? Why are these never discussed? Because you are blinded and see only the one side. Nickname supporters are well aware of the consequences of keeping the name and logo, plain and simple the positives outweigh the negatives
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With all due respect, Chris, if Bemidji and Nebraska Omaha can build a hockey program, I would think that Penn State and an 88 million dollar benefactor will probably be able to get one off the ground as well. I agree with you that Big Ten hockey is at least 2 or 3 years off, but I think the majority believe it will happen someday. Can UND continue in the NCAA and stay the Sioux, absolutely. But, as your comments substantiate, there will be a cost. Maybe you’re right. Maybe the costs are worth the benefit of keeping the name. That is up to UND to decide. But my point stands. Be careful what you wish for.
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Chris, UND has hosted a load of NCAA tournament events in the last 10 years. There are lots of sports at UND, and before the D-1 move several of those sports; football and women’s basktball, hosted NCAA tournament games at home. Also, I went to Minnesota, and while there, I followed sports, but not hockey. I never once heard of the Sioux, but I heard a lot about the other Big 10 Schools. A Big 10 hockey conference would bring home all of the traditional rivalries to the Big 10 Schools and would generate a lot more revenue than the current WCHA. So believe that it probably will happen, and sooner rather than later. As for suffering the consequences, last night on WDAZ the Cross Country Team (yes we do have one) stated that they were not invited to a prestigious invetational at the U of M. I supported the nickname, I have drawers full of Sioux clothing, but UND was unable to get the tribal support that Florida, Utah, and Illinois were able to get. If you had read the background, you would know that even before the controversy, these schools had close working relationships with the tribal governments. At the time, UND was unable to even set up meetings with our local tribes, much less establish a working relationship with them.
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someoneskid trust me I have read the background. In fact I’ve done a lot of research regarding the nickname issues and have followed all the schools who were named in the infamous “Hostile and Abusive” NCAA letter. There were 19 schools on the original NCAA list of “Hostile and Abusive” names, mascots, and imagery. As of 2008, 12 of the original 19 schools have changed or agreed to change their mascots. 5 schools have been removed from the list and all NCAA sanctions against them have been lifted. In the case of Florida State, they gained approval from the Seminole Nation that resides in the state. However the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma continues to oppose the use of the name. The “Fighting Illni” have been allowed to keep the name but were forced to retire all Native American imagery. The reason for letting them keep the name: the “Illni” is supposedly referring to a group of men who fought in world war 1 and were from the state had no Native American background. Therefore the NCAA found that because the term “Illni” was not referring to Native Americans they could continue to use the name. As for Utah, they apparently also gained support of a local tribe in the state, however I have yet to find much evidence of this actually happenning. Most of the 5 schools who appealed the NCAA sanctions needed only to gain approval from the NA tribe that was located closest to the school. UND was unfortunately not treated with the same respect as the previously mentioned schools. Although the NCAA had already granted 3 appeals to other schools, they rejected both of UND’s appeals. “The NCAA’s Bernard Franklin said that it was critical that there was opposition to UND from two of the three local Sioux tribes, in addition to a resolution by the Board of Directors of the United Tribes of North Dakota in support of the NCAA restrictions.” Plain and simple, UND was never given the same opportunities for appealing to the NCAA. We’ve been shot down right from the start. My research has led me to believe that UND has consistently maintained strong relations with the NA tribes that reside in the state. UND has been recognized throughout the years for the programs it offers to Native American students and is said to have one of the best in the country. The history of ND is built on that of the Native Americans who settled here long before it became a state. Without them, UND wouldn’t be half the school it is today and we owe them more than can ever be repaid. Although I am a strong supporter of the nickname and logo, I was also raised a christian. I personally do not feel the name is hostile or abusive, but I respect that some people feel differently.
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UND didn’t have a working relationship with the tribes? 500 natives enrolled in many programs just for Natives says there had to be a pretty good relationship.
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A more likely outcome is the Big 10 becoming a division of the present WCHA. It is already being talked about by coaches.
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You gotta be suspicious when the legislation originates from Fargo about what the motives are. Is it just to keep UND in limbo and continue the controversy or is it to right a wrong? Since when did Fargo legislators give a rats you know what about UND?
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Were Fargo legislators UND graduates?
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They admitted to being alumni of NDSU
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The first step is to plug the hole, make a statement and stop the hypocrites at the NCAA. Step two would be to amend the bill, protect the honor of the name and all the good that keeping it could accomplish (educating our students in early ND history, Indian Culture, etc.) and then plan on how to deal with the NCAA. Our AG needs to understand that this name and logo has been granted a trademark and is registered with the Federal Government. It is a legal and recognized property owned by the State of North Dakota and has been granted by law, all the rights and privileges afforded to it by our Federal Government. The NCAA should not be able to pass judgment that sets aside State and Federal law in the name of political correctness, especially when they do not apply their own rules evenly, their treatment of one school vs. another is discriminatory. The NCAA has certain powers; it is an organization that we do not have to join. By joining, we accept certain rules and responsibilities but not at the expense of free trade, free speech or fear of discrimination and penalty. If NCAA law hold more power and can trump Federal law, can any and every group that chooses to ignore the Constitution make its own law? I think not. Join the majority, stop being divisive, support the Fighting Sioux name.
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The trademark has absolutely no bearing on the issue whatsoever. The NCAA is a private, voluntary organization that UND chooses to involve itself with. If it doesn’t play by NCAA rules, then they can get kicked out. For instance, what if you were a lutheran church part of the ELCA, and wanted to change the churches name to “Jesus is Stupid and was Wrong about everything Lutheran Church,” and they trademark that name? Does ELCA have to let you remain a member? As long as they follow the rules they have set for reviewing your membership, they absolutely do not have to let you remain a member.
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Majority? Gimme a break. The majority don’t care one way or the other. The majority would rather this topic went away. Both the supporters and those who object are in the MINORITY. Both of them. You can cry “majority” all day long, but that does not make it so.
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Hey Chuck,
one word about majority……SCOREBOARD!
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It amazes me how many of these poster will sell out on 80 years of tradition for a little money.
Let the NCAA keep their money…..UND can keep it’s dignity.
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Its amazing how many people are willing to trade the viability of the entire athletics department for a nickname.
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If you believe this is only about the nickname…you haven’t been paying attention.
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There is no dignity in the forceful taking of an identity that does not belong to you. There is no dignity in refusing to honor YOUR own settlement because it did not come out in your favor. There is no dignity in dragging North Dakotans into an expensive protracted lawsuit OVER A NICKNAME
that is so controversial. There is no dignity in the
disgrace you are bringing to UND and the state of North Dakota by clinging to your outdated Indian head logo.
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No one is taking anyone’s dignity. Celebrating the warrior spirit of the Sioux does not “take” teir dignity.
How about honoring the dignity of the Spirit Lake.
If you want the “controversy” to end, get on the correct side of this thing and stop practicing the race-baiting.
On the contrary, the disgrace would be to capitulate to the PC nazis that revel in creating “victims” and promoting class warfare.
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David, you’re not fooling anyone.
You don’t care about the warrior spirit of the Sioux, all you care about is forcing natives to be your logo for your games.
How dignified is it to have Sioux *uck chants at games, or to have a stereotyped image of your head on beer mugs?
When you stop forcing a minority race to be your logo, then you will stop being accused of being a racist. So don’t do the deed and then holler about being called on it.
Standing Rock has said NO. How about honoring that? Or how about honoring your own settlement?
You are stealing the identity and name of natives that have clearly said NO. That’s what is disgraceful.
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Do you feel the same about the Fightin’ Irish of Notre Dame?
Or do you have “selective outrage?
If you had the luck of the Irish
You’d be sorry and wish you were dead
You should have the luck of the Irish
And you’d wish you was English instead!
A thousand years of torture and hunger
Drove the people away from their land
A land full of beauty and wonder
Was raped by the British brigands! Goddamn! Goddamn!
If you could keep voices like flowers
There’d be shamrock all over the world
If you could drink dreams like Irish streams
Then the world would be high as the mountain of morn
In the ‘Pool they told us the story
How the English divided the land
Of the pain, the death and the glory
And the poets of auld Eireland
If we could make chains with the morning dew
The world would be like Galway Bay
Let’s walk over rainbows like leprechauns
The world would be one big Blarney stone
Why the hell are the English there anyway?
As they kill with God on their side
Blame it all on the kids the IRA
As the bastards commit genocide! Aye! Aye! Genocide!
If you had the luck of the Irish
You’d be sorry and wish you was dead
You should have the luck of the Irish
And you’d wish you was English instead!
Yes you’d wish you was English instead!
John Lennon
Who gave Notre Dame the right to use the Irish?
Where are you friends at the NCAA on this “Hostile and Abusive’ behavior?
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Oh yes….thanks for this:
“When you stop forcing a minority race to be your logo, then you will stop being accused of being a racist. So don’t do the deed and then holler about being called on it. ”
a perfect example of race-baiting.
thanks again.
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It’s way past time to move on past this divisive issue. The Herald had it right when they called it “eternal strife” if the nickname stays. The nickname will go and life will continue on. I commend the courage of UND, SBOHE, NCAA, University Senate, Student Senate, and all others that have worked hard on removing this divisive logo over so many years.
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It is the PC crowd that brought this about, why not rail against them.
Where was the “courage” of UND, NDSBHE, NCAA, when Englestad was giving them a 100 million dollar arena?
They are cowards.
We all remember when Ralph Englestad told them how he felt about the logo and nickname. Your “courageous” people didn’t have the courage then, only now, when he is gone.
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Divisive, yes. It is time the anti- Fighting Sioux proponents end their divisive stance and join the majority of people that want to keep the name. Unite with us and embrace the name and all of the positives it brings. Stop your negative behavior that is dividing our University.
If you need a cause, there is a white guy down in South Dakota that is carving the face of a Sioux Indian in the side of a mountain. If the Sioux are so against using their image, here is a good place to spend your time and efforts and stop this “dishonor.”
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