Supporters, detractors shout different messages in Madison Saturday
February 19, 2011 at 9:38 am in New Richmond News
The state capitol building in Madison, Wis. had two faces on Saturday. On one side, the union supporters gathered. On the south side of the building, the Tea Party rally was beginning. Continue Reading
People who think that those in the public sector are living the high life with all these incredible benefits are mistaken. My contract has to be renewed every year. There are no guarantees. I’ve taken pay freezes and furloughs. I’ve sacrificed like everyone else. Now the “tea-partiers†are flocking to Madison from around the U.S. to out-shout the folks who are protesting Walker’s bill. Now you have crossed a personal line. You have went too far. Protesting big government and your right to bear arms is one thing. Saying that at $14/hr, I need to suffer a little more is another. Who the hell do you think you are?
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You have went too far? I think you mean ‘you have gone’ too far, please don’t tell me you are a teacher Alice.
We all know who has gone too far…it is the folks who lied to get out of going to work and let our kids high and dry, are bringing in fake doctor notes to get back into work, and who have trashed and vandalised our capitol. That is who has ‘gone’ too far.
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Before you correct someone else’s post, maybe you should check your own for errors. I found three in your second paragraph. Can you spot them or can you only find errors in the posts of others?
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I hope Alice is not a teacher for my children. You do not have an entitlement to anything. If you call in sick to school to go protest, what example does that set?
I can only protest on the weekend. If I were to call in sick and be seen on the news protesting, I would be fired.
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John & Harold. No, I am not a teacher but I work for the system. I also did not call in sick to protest, so get off yourselves and fox news. I’m assuming you support the tea party agenda or you would not attack my statements, correct? I do not like the way I am being taxed to death – just like you. However – Now you are attacking your fellow Americans and I have a hard time with that. If YOU were asking for fair treatment and bargaining rights, I would NOT consider saying that you DO NOT deserve that! What gall you have. Do you not understand that if my rights go away, yours are soon to follow? And can either of you explain to me how $14/hr., no vacation, no sick leave is living high on the government teat? I am glad you spoke up though, time to let everyone know exactly what the tea partys agenda is!
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You are personifying your $14/hr as if you are the pariah for all union members, and attempting to allegorically illustrate this for the entire collective group, which is not true. Textbook tactics–make it about me or make it about the children to garner support and compassion.
According to the WI Dept of Workforce Development statistics from May 2009, In May 2009, elementary school teachers earned $51,240, and secondary school teachers earned $49,400.
Not too bad for 9 months of work. If they worked 12 months, that would be a yearly salary of over $68,000. More than what I make.
Don’t leave out the pension and insurance benefits…
According to the Milwaukee Public Schools own recruiting litearature:
“People often believe that teachers don’t make a lot of money. Those in the know, though, are aware that compensation in the education industry can be quite generous, especially when you factor in the great vacation schedule and the comprehensive benefits packages that usually go along with teaching. In Wisconsin, teaching salaries averaged $52,644 in 2009-10, according to the National Education Association, with most school districts offering benefits that range from health insurance to retirement plans.”
As for the agenda of the tea party, I like some aspects and some I don’t care for. I voted Democrat in both ’08 and Republican in ’10. I do care about taxes and social justice. I have a HUGE problem with unionization of the workforce of a government monopoly in all instances. Don’t jump to conclusions.
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I never said OR implied that all union members are making the same OR attempted “to allegorically illustrate this for the entire collective group” so don’t put words in my mouth. However there are thousands in the same situation as me. Walkers callous proposal will affect us all. I do know that when your employer decides to take away all your rights, I certainly will not be cheering him on. All I got to say to you Harold.
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1. Governor Walker is not trying to take anything away from the teachers as far as wages and benefits that they already have. He is only trying to bring them under control. After all, that is my money (and yours) they are after.
2. We elected our current Governor because we were tired of Doyle and his catering to the likes of the unions. Now Walker is doing his job and the teachers, liberals and democrats are angry. All these educators with all these shingles and either they do not understand economics, they have listened to Obama too long or they are just plain greedy!
3. Our country is still a free country. The teachers are free to leave their public sector jobs and go out and work in the private sector. Then they can find out what most people make in the private sector. Good luck to them. Bet won’t see any of them rushing for the door. Now you know why!
4. Several years ago, unions funneled millions of dollars into the Democratic Party for national and state elections. They did this for three reasons: Money, money and money! As long as they continue to put politics ahead of their job, they will remain on the bottom of my priority list.
5. Every single teacher that violated their contract by calling in sick and going to Madison or elsewhere to protest or goof off this past week needs to be terminated from their employment. I encourage everyone to call their school administrators and see that they enforce the present teacher’s contract and also to report any of their employees that you may have observed violating the present contract. We don’t pay them stand around and insult us!
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Go ahead and fire them. We’ll see how that works out for ya. I’m sure they are well aware of the implications of civil disobedience.
The Republicans would love to fire all the public school teachers anyway. Of course, they are short-sighted as always.
The issue here is that you have skilled teachers who have legally bargained their contract with locally-elected school boards. Republicans want to do away with that and legislate what local bargaining groups do from Madison. So much for not wanting big government to control their lives.
This is a union-busting tactic that has its roots in the far-right leadership. It’s big corporations succeeding in convincing middle income people to split and fight amongst each other while they reap the benefits and rape the treasury.
If the governor of Wisconsin truly wanted to balance the budget, why did he exempt firefighters and police? Why doesn’t he consider raising revenue? This is anti-union and anti-teacher because they are the last stronghold of the democrats and Republicans will do whatever it takes to destroy them. Then they will blame the teachers. And their puppets and lemmings will believe them … or at least they will say they do on blogs.
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Dear LovinLife:
See #4 of my previous response. Really now, what did the teachers expect after they gave millions to the dems over the past couple years? They are reaping the rewards of their failure to buy the last election! What goes around, comes around!
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So you agree the Republicans are participating in political retribution and this isn’t about “balancing the budget” as the governor claims. Thanks for clearing that up. At least now we know that if a republican ever claims to be doing something for the benefit of his or her constituents, they are lying. It’s all about political tactics and punishment and positioning. And you probably support this. How very “patriotic” of you.
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If Doyle wouldn’t have spent so much, then there wouldn’t be as much of a deficit, or there might have even been a surplus. And if the deficit wasn’t so HUGE, then we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place!
“At least now we know that if a republican ever claims to be doing something for the benefit of his or her constituents, they are lying. It’s all about political tactics and punishment and positioning.”
You’re generalizing and assuming that every Republican acts the same way, does the same things, believes the same things and says the same things. Have you met, talked to, and known every single person who has Republican beliefs?
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All of these people unhappy with ‘the system’ need to get their resumes and interview skills updated and look for other work. But I must warn you, it is a cruel world out there. You will have to compete strongly to get the job, then prove yourself day after day to keep it. You will work the hours and days your employer needs you and you cannot dictate what your pay and benefits will be. You can be terminated at any time if your business is not making it. Be careful what you wish for….
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It is all about balancing the budget. It may take eliminating collective bargaining to achieve this. Only 7% of the private sector in the US has collective bargaining. Why is it so important that the public sector have collective bargaining? Do we mistrust the people, that we elect, who determine the wages, benefits and working conditions of the public employees. We just elected a govenor and legislature to do the will of the people. This is what elections are for, even if you lost and don’t agree. Maybe Wisconsin should be a ‘Right to Work’ state like half of the United States, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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Dear LovinLife,
You are so funny. I am glad you believe everything I write because most of it is true. But you apparently missed the rest of my comment. I have no doubt there may be some payback here but it also make sense to balance the budget. If I was the Governor, I would probably come after them too. I won’t lie about it and say I wouldn’t but then again, what better and more obvious reason than to balance the budget? Them poor little teachers… I see a lot of them had enough benefits and money to take off from work and drive all the way to Madison last week for a couple days. Think of what they must have spent on gas and food, etc. They must not be hurting for mola too bad!!!!
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Walker has already given corporations and businesses $116 million in tax breaks and incentives. Now he wants to cut $131 million from government employees. The rich just keep getting richer. Let’s wake up people.
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Governor Walker is trying to improve the business climate in Wisconsin. If job opportunities are not increased, our communities will continue to suffer. When communities suffer, local government and school district revenues suffer as well. We all must wake up to and share the pain of our changing economy. I find it ironic that our public schools have been preaching “sustainability” in the classroom, but have blinders on and become apoplectic when light is shown on the unsustainability of their fringe benefit plans.
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Dear LovinLife,
You just don’t get it, do you? This isn’t about the rich but if it were, none of us would have a job without them because they are the ones the start and create businesses that create jobs. The more rich people there are the more trickle down jobs and money we all get to share as opposed to trickle up poverty from Obama! On the other hand, the democrats have already spent our children’s money and our children will be paying taxes for our current debt the rest of their life, even if they are only three years old right now. Out kids quality of life will be reduced because of excessive spending! This “rich people are bad people†thing is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. You really must quit listening to Obama, Pelosi and Reid and start thinking for yourself. It is true propaganda. After all, I am sure it was George Bush’s fault anyway!
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Lets not forget the hand full city street Dept. workers that found time to walk with the teachers friday on the tax payers dime maybe all the pot holes are full. And for the teachers that stand and say they fight for the youth of our town how dare you its all about your pay and nothing else. And for any teacher that brings a fake Dr. slip back to school well may be you should not be teacher I know I do not whant you around my children.
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Tom, businesses don’t create jobs without help from taxpayers. TIF gives businesses tax advantages that are paid for by homeowners. Wages and salaries have been dropping in the U.S. since 1970 and corporate profits have soared. The real problem is that wages are too low and too much wealth is concentrated in the top 5%. It doesn’t actually trickle down. If you actually look at the tax records in this country you’d see that the rich, as you call them, aren’t paying a fair share.
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I really do understand how all the private sector workers who have endured hard times are feeling about this issue. The fact that you are working harder now for less money than you were earning 10 years ago is infuriating. Your anger is misplaced however. Instead of trying to pull another group down, it may be more productive to try and lift yourselves up. One way to do that is to unionize. Union wages are on average higher than non-union, that must have some attraction doesn’t it? If you cut teacher salaries then good teachers will find jobs elsewhere. We end up with a poor education system that doesn’t prepare our children for the future. Businesses need a well educated workforce now more than ever. Without it businesses will send more jobs to India and China where education is a priority. Look at the current list of Fortune 500 companies. There are 21 in Minnesota, 31 in Illinois and only 10 in Wisconsin. Tax cuts don’t keep good businesses in our state as much as well educated employees do.
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You want fair? How about this? Why don’t we take all the public and private full time employees who have jobs in the New Richmond School District and figure out the average wage and benefit package of all these workers combined. Then we can divide this figure by the total number of employees and if it is not equal, we will distribute money from one side to the other. How about it teachers? A simple “yes†or “no†answer please. I don’t want to hear any excuses! Let’s hear from you!
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Dear Tom – how about this? If you want all of the incredible fantastic benefits teachers get without earning a bit of them, why don’t you become one? Pretty simple. Quit listening to fox news and expand your education a bit. Walker’s plan is NOTHING but union busting. If it passes, next he’ll be coming for you and your rights. Teachers are NOT the enemy.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Dear Swifty,
TIF money doesn’t cover all the cost of any business. There hasn’t always been TIF financing in this country and I am not sure we need it. This issue isn’t about TIF Districts. For 200 years in this country, jobs were created by people with ideas and incentive and of course, (sometimes) money. It used to be the harder you worked, the more money you made. Not always the case anymore. I do not know of any poor people that have opened businesses and created jobs. Do you? Ever heard the saying that it takes money to make money? The 5% you mentioned don’t pay their fair share of taxes? They pay a heck of lot more then the rest of us both in actual cash and in percentages. I believe they pay something like 80% of all taxes where as the bottom 50% pay about 5%. Who is getting the shaft here? Who uses the most of our public services? I don’t like having to defend the rich because I am not one of them! The rich probably got that way because they earned it, worked harder, got lucky or who knows for what reason. You sound like Nancy Pelosi for crying out loud! Pointing the finger! But it’s a lame excuse when we blame our problems on the rich or on George Bush or even the devil. People need to stand up in life and take responsibility for their actions, good or bad. The teachers are doing just fine financially. If they are not, then maybe they need to learn how to create a budget, balance a budget and stick to a budget. After all, are not they the ones with all the education? By far, the majority of people who are in real financial duress are there because of their poor choices or their irresponsibility. And I speak of the “rule†not the “exceptionâ€. That is about as plain as I can explain it!
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see what our teachers pay and xtras are go to Datamine and they list all the teachers in the dist.
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The Public Campaign Action Fund is exploring whether Walker violated a ban against political coordination in Wisconsin during a recent phone conversation he had with a man claiming to be billionaire right wing supporter David Koch. http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/wisconsin-scott-walker-koch-prank Apparently, Walker IS on a union busting quest after all and it’s not REALLY about balancing the Wisconsin budget. It’s about taking the middle classes money and diverting it to the rich. Walker promised the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce (MMAC) to completely end the state’s corporate income tax – a massive new $1.5 billion tax break which would require even more drastic cuts to education, health care, police and fire protection. He said he would “repeal the corporate income tax”. http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/press/walkers-latest-15-billion-promise-end-corporate-income-tax.html So Wisconsin’s teachers unions are the cause of all of our debt? Taxpayers like you and I have to pay for all of their incredible benefits, correct? And what about banks? If I remember correctly, taxpayers had to pay for the recent bank bailouts. You know, the banks that foreclosed on so many of your friends and families homes. The same banks that said we need to offer a compensation package starting at $500,000 to attract and keep the best. No, teachers unions are the cause of all of our debt – yeah right! Take an hour, look up the facts and see what’s in your best interest – supporting the 2 % wealthiest in America or supporting yourself?
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Nice, Alice! Sad thing is that no matter how much proof and common sense you are with right wing nuts, they always find a way to spin things and get it wrong. It’s as if they are all drinking tainted water.
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Funny, the Mother Jones article doesn’t mention Ian Murphy’s other essays or writings. I wonder why?
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Yeah – they don’t get it Nicole. They are arguing against what is in their own best interests. Talk about swilling from the fox news trough… : )
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I went on to the DataMine webpage to see just how much our local teachers are earning. In a random sampling of a dozen full-time teachers from our school district with more than one year of work experience, the average New Richmond public school teacher in my sampling is earning $59,153 in wages each year and $29,528 in benefits. If you figure that on a nine month school year excluding holidays, etc., the average teacher is making about $37.37/hour. The total average combined wage and benefit package cost to the taxpayers for each of these teachers is $88,681/year. If you include the benefit package, the average teacher is making $56.02/hour. Many teachers pick up summer jobs as well. Not because they have to but because they want to.
Now compare this with the private sector worker in our area. Of the few people that did share this information with me, all of them have at least one year work experience and they averaged four years at their present job as full time employees. None of them are union employees. Two of these people have vocational education schooling and one does not. I determined their average hourly rate was $16.67/hour. Their benefit packages averaged about $8.00/hour. Now let me remind you, these are the people from whom the teachers are demanding share the teacher’s burden of cost increases for their wage and benefit packages! While these figures may not be exact, they are darn close.
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So it looks like if you are in a union, you get higher wages. And the problem with that is…? Union workers are getting a bigger piece of the pie? Do we really want to drag higher paid union workers down a notch because they have used their collective bargaining effectively and getting more? Jealous much?
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I have at least 25 years professional work experience and 12 years at my present job. I am not a union employee, but Walker’s plan will affect me as a public employee. I have a 4-year degree which cost me plenty. My hourly pay is $13.89 and my figures are exact! The only reason I keep my job is for health insurance and I do pay into that just like you. Now let me remind you, this is not only about teachers, who I happen to respect – but other public employees as well. $16.67/hour sounds pretty good to me. If you want the incredible benefits of working in the public sector, why don’t you update your resume and apply for a job?
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“Now let me remind you, this is not only about teachers, who I happen to respect”
What are you saying, that those who don’t agree with you don’t respect teachers? Because that’s certainly what it looks/ sounds like.
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So it is everyone elses fault that these non-union people choose fields that have resulted in low paying jobs? If these union employees all have it so good, maybe your chosen people should invest in an education and go into teaching. I pursued a BS degree and will be completing my masters soon. I have earned the money that I make. You get out of it what you put into it. No, I am not a teacher and not in a union.
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Dear Alice,
Please take some of your own advice. Are you for real? $16.67/hour is a lot? And $37.37/hour is peanuts? You lost me!
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Let me explain to you Tom. See – I make $13.89/hr. So…$16.67/hr. would be more than that.
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United Wisconsin is for Wisconsin residents to sign a pledge to recall Scott Walker. Since we can not distribute the actual petitions until 11/3/11, sign a pledge for recall as we will only have 60 days to collect 540,206 signatures. The database will be essential for a successful recall. http://www.UnitedWisconsin.com
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How about a recall for the 14 Democrats that seem to think run and hide is ok for our state
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Start your own petition…
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Want higher taxes and larger deficits: vote democrat or union (same thing). Want a little common sense, better representation and less greed: vote republican! Nuff said.
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That might be the most ignorant statement I have ever read.
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Collective bargaining makes for higher taxes and larger deficits. It does not make for smarter kids. Teacher unions care less about our kids. They want power. Money equates power! This is out of the mouth of one of the big-shot lawyers who worked for the NEA until last year!
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hey Tommy. Once again I love how you talk about things you have no understanding of. And just making blanketing statements that you wish would cover the issue is funny. Read that other post Tommy post I made for you at
http://topics.areavoices.com/2011/02/24/all-new-richmond-teachers-receive-non-renewal-notices-thursday/
I implore you to actually sit down and read it. Really read it and then stop think and then write a reply. Maybe even write a reply, walk away for a few mins then sit back down and go over it again. It might help you see the hatred you put into your posts as well as just how making a blanketing statement does not make it true. Like I said before teachers would love to live in “tommy land”
I invite all to read that post, I love to debate but would prefer to debate with someone who can at least stick on point and not toss out emotional unfounded allegations and half truths.
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Please go to youtube and type in wisconsin Protesters Disrespect veterans memorial and tell me they get it????
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Oh puleeeze… Please go to takeyerheadouttayer and type in Im More patriotic Than You.
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Alice its not about patriotism its about respect the same respect that should be given to any memorial such as your families grave sites its no different and I am sure you are just as patriotic and love this country as the next one if not so be it your still welcome to your views. by the way my head is in a place that the sun still shines
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“We’re watching democracy in action.â€
I’ve seen/ heard this many times. Alas, we don’t live in a democracy. Our government is set up as a republic. We vote for representatives, who, in turn, make decisions for us. Not much of any of our government, local, state or federal, is democratic.
Also, related to the unions topic, what if I don’t want to be a member of a union, for one reason or another, but my job requires it?
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