Remember that Duluth monorail idea? It’s back
February 8, 2011 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
Remember Taxi 2000 Corp. the outfit that pitched building a monorail-type transit project in Duluth seven years ago? That project fizzled when the city lost its bid for state bonding money – but talk of bringing Taxi 2000 to town is back.
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Ummm……I…..but…..this…..how…..
*Sigh*
This is…..I…..struggling…..words…..
OK…..deep breath……
YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!?!?!? They are going to push for $60-$80MM for this?
We need to realize right quick that the vast majority of people don’t come to Duluth to hang out Downtown or in Canal Park. People come here (or through here) to camp and go biking, for hockey tournaments, to hunt or fish, to snowmobile or ride ATVs, to go boating, to ski…..in short, to do things with equipment that mass transit–by and large–doesn’t have the capability of transporting. Try to put a hockey bag, a couple of sticks, a kid and two parents in one of those pods. Ain’t happenin’. And short of the Aquarium (different topic altogether), none of the major tourist attractions would be within its’ service area. You can talk about Europe until you’re blue in the face, the fact is that Americans–and Midwesterns, in particular–would not utilize large-scale mass transit (or three-person pods) for the simple reason that they want to continue with their way of life. Trains didn’t change the European lifestyle…..trains fit WITHIN the European lifestyle. With the U.S. being comprised of three distinct areas: East Coast, West Coast and Flyover Country, trains don’t–and won’t–work within the American geographical layout.
Instead of trying to be the neat-o pseudo-futuristic city with semi-high-speed trains (gotta have that 3 1/2 hours of WiFi lovin’!) and one square mile of three-person pod track (imagine the roulette when you pull up to the Holiday Center with only yourself in the pod! Fun!), we might try to do something that will improve the economic standing of the city.
Duluth is only two or three major employers away from being in a big, big pinch. If we don’t work to draw decent jobs to Duluth, we’re going to be screwed until water becomes the resource du jour. A big problem I see is that UMD, UWS and CSS (short of the highly-touted nursing programs at Scholastica and engineering programs at UMD) are not developing the workforce needed here in the Northland. In short, we’re churning out a workforce for the Twin Cities, Madison, Chicago and all other areas not called the Twin Ports. Hell, there isn’t even an entreprenuer program amongst the three schools. Until we address the economic vacuum in this area, trains and pods will end up being nothing but window dressing in a shanty town.
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It is things like this that are the reason the graduates are leaving. Dumb ideas, naive people, and terrible streets.
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This is the singe stupidest thing I have ever heard. Are we so frappin lazy that we can’t use the SKYWALK to get us to the places this thing would take us? 80 million dollars so I don’t have to WALK from downtown ALL THE WAY to canal park or bay front? At least if you were connecting it to the mall area it would serve SOME practical purpose but even then, the price tag would be too much for us right now. Let’s put this idea down quickly and quietly shall we? What a dopey idea.
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The Music Man (musical)
Prof. Harold Hill: Well, sir, there’s nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What’d I say?
Man 1: Monorail!
Prof. Harold Hill: What’s it called?
2 women: Monorail!
Prof. Harold Hill: That’s right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Mrs. Shinn: I hear those things are awfully loud…
Prof. Harold Hill: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Man 2: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Prof. Harold Hill: Not on your life, my good friend.
Man 3: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Prof. Harold Hill: You’ll be given cushy jobs.
Man 4: Were you sent here by the devil?
Prof. Harold Hill: No, good sir, I’m on the level.
Man 5: The ring came off my pudding can.
Prof. Harold Hill: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it’s Duluth’s only choice…
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Prof. Harold Hill: What’s it called?
All: Monorail!
Prof. Harold Hill: Once again…
All: Monorail!
Woman 1: But Main Street’s still all cracked and broken…
Child 1: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[big finish]
Monorail!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Dead, We just watched Music Man this weekend. You captured it perfectly, I am impressed!
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Homer: Marge, I wanna be a monorail conductor.
Marge: Homer, no.
Homer: It’s my lifelong dream!
Marge: Your lifelong dream was to run out onto the field during a baseball game, and you did it last year, remember?
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The mind boggles at the stupidity in this city.
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Look! Up there in the sky! It’s a bird, it’s a plane, it’s a…..PIE!
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Hear is how I suggest we process this information.
First, let’s pretend we have $60 million to blow and no other long term obligations.
Then let’s think up all the other things we could do with $60 million.
Let’s compare their desirability against this carnival ride.
Is this the best possible thing we could think of doing with $60 million?
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If it only cost 80 million, I would be flabbergasted. These systems are NOT cheap at all, and we would pay out the rear for it. This is from the guy that already wants hundreds of millions to build MORE condos and and underwater parking lots in an area he doesn’t fully comprehend.
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This topic reminds me of the saying “there is nothing new under the sun”. There is a PRT system operating in Morgantown West Virginia connecting their university to their town. Visit this link:http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/morg.htm
Secondly, we had a wonderful non-poluting mass transit system in Duluth up ’til the 1940s and threw it away.
If We proceed with these discussion/plans, we should include an incline railroad up 7th avenue west to connect to the mall (like the one we threw away in 1939). Or we could build a cable-car/gondola system from the depot to Duluth hieghts (like the one in at Stone Mountain/Atlanta Georgia). This would be a link from the Duluth Central Business District and DECC area to the mall. All these ideas have been built before and Duluth discarded them one by one. OK, I’ll sit down now.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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First: Duluth never had a system connecting the mall area to Downtown. It was the top of the hill to Downtown. Secondly, the reason none of these systems exist is because they became obsolete; that is, people no longer used them due to technological advances (the automobile, the city bus). We don’t have the money or resources (or ridership, for that matter) to be floating acid trip-type transportation projects when we should be more worried about our long-term viability as something more than a tourist trap.
And, for everyone’s sake, I will summarize the link (and Wiki) you posted:
*Serves the city of Morgantown, WV: Home of the University of West Virginia and ~30,000 college students each year.
*Construction started in 1972, took 7 years to complete the two phases of construction
*8.7 miles of tracks built at a 1970s cost of $126MM
*The original estimates for the system: $15-20MM
*Vehicle capacity: 8 sitting, 13 standing (sounds like a bus, no?)
*As of 2003, only 55-60% of operating costs were paid for by fares.
*80% of the capital costs of the system were paid for using federal funds.
*Extensions currently being planned are estimated to cost $30-40MM per mile
Yes, sitting down might be best.
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The incline was “thrown away:” because nobody was using it.
Check out this picture of the smoke stack of the power plant that ran the thing and tell me how non-polluting it was.
http://www.funimag.com/photoblog/index.php/articles/usa-duluth-inclines-minnesota/
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Nice article about the incline here:
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/160123/
Notice the incline was built entirely with PRIVATE FUNDS.
Also here is one disaster Doty didn’t manage to foist on us:
*****In Mayor Gary Doty’s 1990 mayoral campaign, he showed interest in rebuilding the incline railway either on the original location or another suitable site. *****
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But David! It could have been converted to a wind turbine/solar panel incline railcar! Or electricity! Because electricity is clean and oil/gasoline/coal is dirty!
*rollseyes*
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Get serious, Chad. It wouldn’t have been built because the enviros would have found that the 3 toed, big horned, snail darting, 8 leaf clover consuming, tree frog may have lived there 57,000 years ago.
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We also get funding and build hovercrafts too, let me know how that turns out *rolls eyes* Its like everyone expects things to be cheap. I would rather see Duluth redo all its streets first.
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Obviously won’t happen with State or City money…
Even if it goes under private money, the city still ends up with it at some point.
The city also ends up with a stigma for trying gimmicky things that are a waste if it doesn’t work.
These guys are very intelligent developers, but right now they have a lot on their plate with the Lafarge project and don’t need to add something like this to the mix.
My biggest question, however? Where the hell would it go? There isn’t much room down there and clutter is not a good thing.
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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I don’t see any innovation in this concept. A car on a track.
Here’s an assignment: Think of an way to move people from the harbor to down town for less than $60 million. Please think outside of the box on this assignment.
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hahahahahahaha
OK
hahaahahhahahahaha
Personal Hot Air Balloons
hahahahahahaahaha
Just Kidding!!!!!!
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If they have feet, I think I just solved the problem. If they can’t walk the three or four blocks from Canal Park to downtown Duluth without an $80 million Disneyland ride, maybe they have bigger issues to deal with.
Please grade me outside the curve. I don’t want to be lumped in with the pinheads.
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The “outside the box” thinking is that no one has EVER spent that much money on something so worthless.
And if the Wright Brothers or Henry Ford had lived in Duluth? Hmmmmm………………
Henry Ford would have been sued by numerous neighborhood groups for blocking their view of something…..not to mention by being litigated to death by environmental organizations for endangering the rare-yet-previously-undiscovered Eight-Toed Turquoise Tiger Snail. He also would have been boycotted by racially-motivated organizations for only producing black vehicles…..which apparently in someone’s reading-too-much-into-it-mind means RACISM. Finally, the local union thugs would move in and demand that–recession or not–the dues-paying union workers need fourteen different automatic annual pay increases, free pensions, lifelong unlimited free health care and recliners in the break room for nap time. So, you’re right: Mr. Ford would have left town……throwing a middle finger over his shoulder at the top of Thompson Hill and moving his plant to South Dakota.
The Wright Brothers, on the other hand……because the Wright Brothers would have tried to use Park Point as they used the beaches at Kitty Hawk (for a runway). Little did they know that they would be harrassed and ridiculed by Park Point NIMBY residents–you know, those who gnash teeth and wail horrible sounds every time something happens on THEIR sandbar. The environmental terrorists would then come riding in on their attorneys and lawsuits, contriving some convoluted theory that the aeroplane they are developing might someday kill songbirds migrating along the North Shore in the fog at night. Wilbur and Orville might have moved over to Wisconsin Point because Wisconsin is “Open for Business”, but most likely would have just packed it in, somehow qualified for SSDI and Section 8 housing, and spent their adult lives heading down to Curly’s at 8am for breakfast beers.
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Ok I did my own assignment.
How about we add 5 more horse carriages and extend their routs up to Superior Street?
http://www.discoverourtown.com/MN/Duluth/Attractions/143846.html
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I would prefer that they do their “thinking” with their own money and not mine. If these clowns had to pony up 50% of the money they want, this white elephant would be DOA! It’s time we stopped funding programs for the sake of funding programs and start putting our limited resources towards research that has a better than average chance of producing a benefit worthy of the investment.
I am personally familiar with this monorail scam. It was a scam back then, and it’s still a scam. The supporters are more interested in the funding an approved plan like this creates than in actually building it. They didn’t do their research back then, and it died. I have a difficult time seeing how the laws of physics have been suspended in the last 8 years that would allow this thing to suddenly become viable.
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Chad, I guess you know almost nothing about the 7th avednue west incline railroad. It connected to the Duluth Heights Street Car line which ran up Orange Street (the road gradee is still used today). The Orange street line crossed centrral entranced and went up Basswood avenue. It ended a few blocks short of the mall area. You should sit down and study Duluth history before lashing out. Call me and we can talk, I’ll teach you a little history.
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So, you’re admitting that the system didn’t connect the mall area, since the mall area that didn’t exist for another thirty years after the system was dismantled. Good, glad we got that out of the way. And are we talking about the same system that would transport all of the people living downtown directly to the mall and back to downtown? Wait, that’s right! There aren’t many people living downtown! Nor is Duluth Heights a densely populated neighborhood. You do realize that the system was put in place because travel by horse-drawn carriage was nearly impossible with the hills, especially during the winter? The advent of the automobile and passenger bus made the system obsolete.
Also: It was antiquated system whose sole purpose was to move people along the primary corridor of business and housing. By 1940, that area was no longer the primary corridor of either…..nor is it today.
This is why you can’t show liberals pretty things……they want to buy without being able to pay for it or knowing how to operate it in a sustainable manner. Why is it that “sustainable” is only a liberal buzz word when referring to “green” stuff?
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According to Google Earth the distance from the end of the incline to the Mall is about 2 1/4 miles.
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Joe, another interesting thing I see from Google Earth, once you get off the Skyline Parkway there are almost no houses up there. I thought it was built to take people from downtown up to a housing development. Were there more there at one time? Didn’t the development take place?
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I recall a Simpson’s episode along these lines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZjzsnPhnw
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heheheh good one Thiele
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While I do think PRT is a really cool idea, it would have needed to come out like 80 years ago. If anything should be invested in mass-transit for Duluth, it should be money for more buses and longer service hours. Even a trolley system with a fixed rail, say one line going along Superior St and one line connecting that to Central Entrance, would be a much more practical investment for a fraction of the cost.
The only way PRT would be viable would be if everybody completely abandoned the capitalist monetary system all at once, and agreed upon a new resource-based economy instead. Sadly, it would have to take years of severe famines and violent warfare for us to reach that point in human evolution.
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You Marxists are such dreamers.
***** it would have to take years of severe famines and violent warfare for us to reach that point in human evolution.****
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Lol… Okay Rush Limbaugh. I’m not a Marxist. Marxism, like Capitalism, doesn’t account for limited resources (oil, natural gas, clean water, etc). They are both outdated philosophies based on the false notion that we can always have infinite growth forever.
Economic and political models change all the time, and that change is long overdue. It’s too bad that you’ve been indoctrinated your whole life to think that if somebody isn’t a Republican, than they must be a Marxist. I consider you a victim of society, Mr Anderson.
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If you abandon freedom, you are by definition embracing tyranny. I don’t care what you call it.
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Again, with Mr. Anderson’s black-and-white view of the world. “Freedom” is the most watered-down, emotionally-driven, and meaningless word used in politics today. What is “freedom” exactly?
Does freedom mean the freedom to burn all of the worlds energy reserves so there isn’t enough for your grandchildren? Does freedom mean the freedom to enslave children in overseas sweatshops for profit? Does freedom mean the freedom to dump toxic waste into other people’s drinking water? If “freedom” to you means freedom to f*** over everybody else, Mr. Anderson, then I want no part of it.
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This irrational fear of “burning our reserves” is merely the latest rationalization given to us as reason to throw away our freedom and accept servitude. We’ve been decades away from burning through our reserves for hundreds of years.
As for pollution, the freer the country the cleaner the environment. Isn’t that interesting?
What do you propose we do about the exploited children abroad? Invade their countries and set it right?
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There is absolutely nothing irrational about being concerned with our energy consumption. Fossil-fuel energy does not replenish itself. Period. Once you use it, it’s gone. What’s irrational is thinking that we will always have limitless access to limited resources.
As for your pollution claim, you still haven’t defined freedom so that point is moot.
And as for the slave children abroad, we can start as individuals by simply not purchasing goods made in countries where slavery is legal. We can also recognize that’s it’s American corporations (Walmart, Nike, Kohl’s, Ikea, Abercrombie & Fitch, etc etc) that employ these exploited workers. Our government could impose tariffs on these countries to restrict trade, and even make it illegal for U.S. corporations to employ slave labor overseas. I don’t know what isn’t free about that.
In any case, you still didn’t answer my question. What does “freedom” mean?
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From the Webster’s Dictionary:
1 : the quality or state of being free: as
a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action;
b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence
c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous;
d : ease, facility;
e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken;
f : improper familiarity;
g : boldness of conception or execution;
h : unrestricted use;
2a : a political right;
b : franchise, privilege
Anyhow, your point is moot. My freedom is not allowed to impose on your freedom, and vice versa. You can do as you please, as will I. It is not charged to the federal government to protect and represent the individual; that responsibility was charged to the states.
Again–showing your true Marxist colors–you believe that individual rights flow from the government to the people; it is only by the people’s mandate that government is allowed the power to govern.
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Chad, please stop putting words into my mouth. I can tell that you’re not even listening to what I’m saying… You’re only listening to what Sean Hannity and Michael Savage say “people like me” believe in. It seems like you think a vote for a Republican is a vote for freedom, but that’s just not the case.
– I don’t have the freedom to smoke cannabis because of the huge push by the Reagan and Bush administration’s “War on Drugs”
– I don’t have the freedom to make private phone calls without being wiretapped because of Bush Jr’s Patriot Act
– I’m no longer free to tell police that they can’t search my person, car, or house without a warrant – also courtesy of Bush Jr’s Patriot Act
– I don’t have the freedom to marry anybody I choose, because of the Republican’s staunch opposition to same-sex marriage
– If I were a woman, I would be concerned because most Republicans want to take away my freedom to have a safe abortion
You see… My point is that “freedom” is subjective. It means different things to different people. Yes, I understand that Republicans are trying to somehow “free us from taxes”, but they also have their own agenda to take away personal freedoms as well.
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Dave Anderson mentioned the smoke stack in the 1901 photo, that was the last year there was any smoke. The steam engine was used because that was the only power source when the incline was built in 1889. But, the [power was converted to Electric motors in 1901 and continued to be electric for the next 39 years. Just the honest facts. Neither the steet cars/trolley buses nor the incline from 1901 to 1940 belched smoke and carbondioxide the way modern internal combustion vehicles do. It wasn’t until 1957 when The bus company dismantled the electric trolley system and replaced it with diesel powered buses that we became a city with a ‘poluting’ bus system. Yes it was a private system, built with private money and paid its own way most of the time. But since this ‘medium’ is for opinions, we can express whatever we feel, facts or fancy. I find myself reading more fancy than facts. You know, we deserve “a chiken in every pot and two cars in every driveway”.
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There was a power plant somewhere belching smoke to run those electric motors.
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>”There was a power plant somewhere belching smoke to run those electric motors.”
Right now, there are numerous Liberals scratching their heads, trying to figure that one out. LMAO!
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I’m not buying any envirobabble from you. Especially since you’ve misspelled the word “polluting” twice now. Normally, I’d let grammar/spelling mistakes slide, but if you can’t spell it, I seriously wonder if you realize that there are more pressing environmental issues than vehicle emissions. Such as the evil, ‘poluting’ coal-fired Chinese power plants that are being built at an unprecedented pace. Of course, those power plants are probably generating electricity for obsolete modes of transportation like incline streetcars.
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I wonder how they would heat the pods in winter?
Maybe just bring a blanket. Vandalism could also be a problem. As I recall Spirit Mt had a vanalism problem on the covered chairlift
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LOL. I just got this mental picture of the pods but painted up with graffiti like the subways of the 70s. Little pods running around downtown with swastikas and gang signs on them. God help us all.
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I had the same vision. Really, you don’t live anywhere near here?
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My mental image of the Pods came as a scene from Invasion of the Body Snatchers…..
Gerry….click on Obamanations Avvy. When you get to his Personal Site….click on Profile (it’s there….just keep reading until you find it). See his Zip Code. Go to your Browser and enter Zip Code _ _ _ _ _ (fill in the blanks with the numbers you found) Press ENTER. Then wait for the body snatchers to come for you…..
Good Grief!
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>”Good Grief!”
lol. I know.
(((rolls eyes)))
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