As for-profit schools expand, students’ problems grow
January 30, 2011 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
When Lonnie Cameron went to Duluth Business University to study computer networks in 1998, he picked the school because he was working and needed classes with flexible hours.
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All this school hogwash doesn’t take into account the enormous amount of nepotism around here. Jobs are always given to relatives as opposed to the person best suited for the job. If you don’t know anyone, forget about working. All the degrees in the world is not going to overcome that basic fact.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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How about a story about all the UMD grads that can’t find work in Duluth?
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I just want to feel safe anymore, anywhere. Tired of reading about Victims here….Victims there. Now For Profit Schools may be victimizing peeps with Falsehoods? Maybe “for profit” may have been a ‘tip-off’ but I didn’t realize they were not a regular college either. Until this expose’ began.
I wonder if this is for our benefit….or to take the heat off the ISD 709 Deficit Issues. Interesting.
Either way it’s just another sad tale of life in Duhluth. I once was so optimistic about this city…..but everyday I grow more and more pessimistic when our mission statement screams….screw or be screwed.
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Screw or be screwed is actually the moto of the free market, Duluth just happens to be apart of that system. (That’s a slightly sarcastic response)
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I easily recognized the sarcasm….and enjoyed it!
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Two jobs for more than 10 years and he was only able to pay down 5K? That’s about 39 bucks a month. Come on!
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You need to check your numbers and get a basic grasp on how loans and mortgages work. Yes, if people who took loans out ONLY paid the pricinipal than Lonnie would be able to pay $41.66 per month for 120 months (ten years) and reduce his debt by 5K, but nobody gets a loan without interest.
So I plugged a 16,000 loan into an online amopritization calculator with a 15 year schedule at just 5%. With those numbers Lonnie would need to pay about $125 a month to get his loan down to about $5,500 in ten years…and he would have paid about $6,000 in interest up to that point.
You can decide if $125 a month is a lot or a little for someone with two kids and, presumably, a low wage job. But I think the fact that for profits account for 12% of enrollments but 24% suggests that there’s some systemic issues with for profit schools.
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oops, left out half of my last sentence…meant to quote the article and re-point out that for profit schools account for 12% of enrollments and 24% of loans…jkldasf blah
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I’ll decide. $125 a month is peanuts. I know people on food stamps who pay $125 a month cell phone bill.
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Believe me, it’s easier than you think to be 10 years down the line and still owe nearly what you took out in loans at that time… “Professional” loans (in most cases that is what these loans are called) are an offshoot of traditional student loans. They aren’t able to be subsidized, in most cases and have a much higher APR. Also, 10 years ago, there was a likelihood that the APR started at a rate of around 6% (not terrible) but has ballooned to well over 15% with NO UPPER LIMIT on that APR! I had a Sallie Mae loan from when I went to a now defunct ‘certification program’ and this is exactly what happened to me and a number of my peers. I am one of the lucky few; graduated top of my class and have been able to hold a steady income for the last 10 years. Others weren’t so lucky… So don’t be so quick to judge, they tend to paint these places in gold leaf, promising immediate openings upon graduation and they usually have stats available to prove it.
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I was there with you. You were in my exact class. I tried telling these guys yesterday and one fathead tried saying it was our fault, if you can believe it.
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The fathead was saying that you should wonder about any program that wants thousands of dollars just to teach you how to pass multiple different tests for technical certs. The type of program you refer to took advantage of people’s desire to cash in on the tech boom by giving them technical certs without giving them any opportunity for industry experience to go with the cert. I mean come on, an MCSD or MCSE in like 3 months? Someone could teach me to be an aircraft mechanic on paper but would you want to fly in the plane I maintained? Maybe you are a victim but there should have been a certain amout of buyer beware as well. – PT Barnum
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My daughter has around $100,000 in student loans and that was after I paid for undergraduate school. She decided that she wanted law school and her masters degree and worked her ass of to do all of this-graduate,law and masters degree in 5 1/2 years. Which is normal for just the undergrad work BUT she realized that she wasn’t going to get a good job around here we talked and she realized thaat Mpls was the closest-she decided to head south, she is in FL and happy. There aren’t a lot of good paying jobs in this area with or without education, you can blame unions, nepotism(which may get you the job-ut if you don’t perform you aren”t staying) obama, bush or whoever we are NOT getting another steel plant or manufacturing company here. No matter what they do downtowns are NOT going to be revitalized and pay fantastic wages. Young people have to realize that this is not a high pay area and they have to be prepared to MOVE and if you get into a computer or tech job including mechanic you had beter be planning on studing every day as thing change fast, I graduated from Vo-tech/ lake superiour college/ Duluth area vocational technical institute or whatever it is called now with a degree in Brodcast Electronics in 1971 we were using tubes so that degree isn’t worth the paper it is written on.
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That is an important point Mike.
That Americans have been historically willing to move to improve their lot is one of the positive facts about America that contributed its success. A mobile flexible workforce is crucial to success in this world.
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Everything you said, Mike, should also be considered by our City Managers. They need to understand they cannot keep our population….let alone Increase It….with the Employment/Wages (YES they go hand in hand) offered here. They need to get off the Tourism Kick and get some REAL jobs. How many companies have come here and left or Failed….after Defaulting on their Incentives Packages? We have been doing Something WRONG for a Long Long time now. Maybe ALL of our Educated folks Have Left for greener pastures and the ones left don’t want any part of saving this city.
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I graduated from DBU. I was able to find a job and pay off my debt. Although I do believe the school is awfully expensive, I don’t think it’s right to blame it for all our shortcomings.
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No offense Yipman….but your comment really tells Me nothing. What year did you graduate? In what Field? How much was your Debt?
You could have graduated in 1970 with Debt of $2,000 because your parents or grandparents paid the bulk of your expenses…..see what I mean? Help us out with some facts please.
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Dead Inside, How do you explain the thousands of people getting hired by strangers? I suspect that your inability to get hired might be the result of a bad attitude. Employers want someone who is eager to go to work every day, not complain about who’s doing what to whom. A change in attitude may result in getting that cherry job. Next time, before launching into another round of self pity, try a little positivity.
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I thought my first post was as clear as you can get. There’s wasn’t much gray area in it. Since you don’t read, I’ll summarize it and you can have your PCA read it back to you. I said that all of this school hogwash makes very little difference when compared to the surrounding area’s very large amount of nepotism. Now, nepotism means that people already within a company get their blood relatives hired instead of picking through job applications to find the best person for the job.
To Hugh J’s PCA: Please try to explain this concept to him in a way he can understand. Maybe try little wooden spelling blocks and simple picture books. No one likes to have to answer questions when they have already given the answer, in this case, the very first post of the comment thread.
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To whoever disliked my statement: could you please explain what I said that was wrong?
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I find this story very anti-business, which is too often the case in Duluth. I believe DBU invested in this community and pays property taxes and so on. The DNT and Brandon Stahl are missing a much bigger story, the same problem, but much larger affecting tens of thousands of graduating students.
I said this yesterday and will say it again…
Massive education debt is piling up on college graduates throughout the United States. How many people graduate from a university with $50,000, $100,000 or $200,000 or more in debt, and are in jobs that hardly require a high school diploma? This story symptomatic of a much larger problem.
An education bubble is coming. As valuable as education is, people are finding out they cannot pay the massive debt they have with low paying service sector employment.
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The problem with federal student loans is that until they are paid off (or until you die), they never go away. I presume that’s part of the “debt counseling” referred to in this article.
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yeah, I think that’s the definition of a loan Garman.
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Virtually all other loans have a statute of limitations on them. Federal student loans do not.
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Nor can they be relieved through bankruptcy.
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The strange thing was that student loans were not counted when my daughter went for a home loan when they did her credit history or in her fiances case, he is an attorney working for the state and if he works for them for 10 years his loans are forgiven, I think that program is availale to nurse/doctors/schoolteachers in many cases. And I don’t believe that student loans can be forgiven during a bankrupcy
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The issue is many private colleges mislead potential students about their programs’ cost, quality and duration, as well as the the average salary of graduates. If the student graduates he/she often can’t find work, defaults on loans which are then absorbed by the taxpayers while the unscrupulous private colleges make handsome profits.
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I read all of the comments prior to this. I note a great many comments blaming the students who were forced through circumstance to take out loans to attend these vocational programs. I think you are wrong to believe that a person who wants to get ahead in this life through education is somehow at fault for giving it a shot.
DBU and other private schools oversell their product and the potential for earning ot their degrees. It is how they make money! Private schools and their recruitment programs prey on the hopes of young people and out-of- work older Americans because the more people they put throug htheir programs, the more money they make. They are not directly allied to an industry, profession, or trade. They are committed to making money!
Is that wrong? My answer would be ,”No.” But I also believe that the operators of an ethical educational training program should lay all the cards on the table to a prospective trainee.
Programs like DBU ought to make their post graduation placement percentages available and accessible for all students, and students ought to be able to compare statistices between different programs and schools easily. That information is somewhat available throught bureau of labor statistics, but only in a general,(not school/program specific way). It seems to me that since government backed loans are the means by which many students attend these programs, it would be good for the government to insist that programs publish and compare their placement results. We, and prospective students, shouldn’t have to read about this rip off in the local paper. It is a nationwide problem.
Dave asked about publishing UMD’s placement rate, but I think that would be relatively pointless. A University education and a vocational education are two different animals, as Dave probably knows.
I know that the public colleges I attended (UMD, U. of AK, and U of M, Mpls.) all put program and learning first. A career was secondary to the education they offered. They made no promise of a job and I had no expectation of getting work just because I got a degree. The beauty of it all was that I didn’t have to go into debt becasue in the 60′s and 70′s school programs were affordable. I worked my way through with a minimum wage job. It wook a while, but I accrued no debt! Students can’t do that these days.
We (the taxpayer) have decided that funding for things like public colleges and vocational technical programs is just too costly. We have forced this generation into debt servitude because we are too cheap to provide them with the world our parents provided to us.
Finally, blaming the trainee for purchasing the wrong program, or getting sucked in by these private “buy a credential” programs is silly and pointless. Young people and people struggling to survive are perfect targets for false advertising and way out. If many of them bite, and buy into these programs, and then find themselves without work and deeply in debt, how are they at fault. Because they wanted to better themselves? Because they wanted to believe?
These people were trying to do the right thng, and got trapped by bad programs with bad intentions. Instead of blaming the victims, we ought to look at the real source of their problems and try to get it straightened out.
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Sorry Misty, I graduated in 2000 from the Computer Networking course. I don’t recall what my debt was to be honest. I’m sure it was a lot though because I basically paid my way through via loans.
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Main gist of the story: Profit is EEEEH-FVILLLL!
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You mean to tell me that schools can charge for the services they provide? What!?! They don’t hold your hand after your done either?!?! Well, what am I supposed to do, evaluate options and choose for myself what I want to do with my life? That doesn’t seem right.
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My wife’s student loan has an interest rate that is less than 0.5% The original balance was around $20,000 for her MBA at a for-profit school.
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Hi, I didn’t research the school for credit price, or the industry I “wanted” for earning potential. I thought I’d be getting top pay right out of school, and don’t want to put my time in at the bottom for a few years.
I screwed up my first interviews, have a spotty job history, or possibly a criminal record that prevents me from working in my “chosen” line of work.
I live in a city with a horrible economy, worse than the nation as a whole, and even though I don’t want to relocate, I picked my college degree on what I WANT to do for aliving, even if the career doesn’t exist in Duluth.
I bought it, decided not to USE it, and now don’t want to PAY for it, like it’s a car or a credit card.
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Come ON, I grew up in Duluth, went to college in Duluth, and KNEW that I’d have to move if I wanted a job outside the medical or manufacturing industry.
It took me 5 years after graduation, with a consistent work history, a four year degree, continuing education, volunteer work….all of that to get to a pay level I felt I deserved. I put my time in at the BOTTOM level, making $10 an hour in a city with a living cost 3 Xs as high as Duluth.
However, I don’t like the schools comment that students at 2 year colleges aren’t as “dedicated”….they don’t usually have the same family support and untarnished background, but just as much dedication.
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