More than their peers, Duluth Business University students see red
January 29, 2011 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
When Vanessa Bushey graduated from Duluth Business University in 2005 with a degree in medical billing and coding, she thought she would quickly find a job and start paying off her student loans. She was wrong.
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Having met quite a few people who’ve gone for this major at DBU, a common denominator is all were single mom’s trying to get off public assistance. I wonder if they’re being steered to DBU due to “welfare to work” rules, then put in worthless majors such as this.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Vocational training for specific work skills is best done on the job and by the industry. These for-profit academies that rely on public dollars to support their programs will promote any field that has a nice sound to it. Young people are sucked into huge debt as they try to fulfill their best intentions.
The bottom line is that like health care, education should not be left to a free running, free market. If profit is the primary motive, the customer outcome becomes secondary. Whether the student gets a job is probably not the primary concern of DBU, Kaplan, or Cappella. What matters is if they get their tuition and fees on time and in full. This is not to say that their programs are totally worthless. But it is to say, “Buyer beware!”
These private job training programs should be required guarantee job placement for students, especially those who get government support. How about a clause that says something to the effect that if a job in the graduating field of study is not attained, then the loan/grant moneys recieved by the school must be repaid to the government by the school?
Many of these private programs seem to have a good deal of money to put out in advertising dollars. Maybe they should redirect that cash toward stronger job placement services.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Consider yourself lucky Vanessa. I got taken to the bank along with 26 other students by Connecting Point.
I got a $4500 “living loan” to support myself while I took a leave of absence from work and the tuition was a loan for $15,000. We were supposed to receive computer certifications in A+, Cisco, MCSE and 2 others that I cannot recall right now. The salesman of Connecting Point refrained from telling us new students that the business was in bankruptcy. He outright kept all of our “living” loans and tuition and refused to give them to us. We each received an A+ certification and after that, the guy just disappeared. He bailed with all of the collected checks he never gave us and we didn’t even receive the certifications we were supposed to receive.
We got a civil suit going with the Minnesota Higher Eduction office but because the loans were not federally backed loans, their hands were pretty much tied and we each ended up receiving a small pittance compared to what was stolen from us. I’m still paying off my portion to this day for money I never received and certifications I never got. It was over $10,000.
I can say that I have the most expensive A+ certification in Minnesota worth about $17,000 and it’s useless to me as far getting a job, but I do get to continue paying off the loans for it.
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Sorry Dead, but that many industry certifications for that little money in a short amount of time… you should have known something was up. Being taught how to just pass the tests for those certs with little to no industry experience wouldn’t have gotten you anywhere anyway…
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Industry experience like working at IBM for 2 and a half years as a moves team consultant? You mean that kind of industry experience? Way to not know what you speak of. And considering that Connecting Point was a good business for 11 years in Duluth doesn’t mean that I should have known that they were going under. Just the opposite. They offered those same certs for 11 years and many, many people got them.
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Sorry to hear about your troubles; it’s a shame how you were taken advantage of. I’m curious and just have to ask: does this have someting to do with your being “dead inside”?
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I was dead inside long before that but it did help to maintain my shallowness, vindictiveness, pettiness, cynicism, intolerance, unforgiveness and just general all around sunny disposition. Thanks for asking and bringing up all those painful memories that I had thought I had left behind. You’ve made me see the error of my ways and I am turning over a new leaf. My new motto is “Don’t worry, be happy”. I’m just an old chunk of coal, but I’m going to be a diamond someday. I’m going to spit and polish my old rough edged self, till I get rid of every single flaw. I’m going to be the world’s best friend. I’m going to go around shaking everybody’s hand.
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Okay. Thanks for answering my question. Just one more: You don’t own any guns, do you?
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No, I don’t believe in guns. I would like to refer you to Jerry Mandridge’s quote when harassed by local police at the bar, “My arms are stronger than your guns”.
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I graduated in 2003 with a degree in Business….from DBU. 8years later I still struggle financially, never got a job in the field i wanted, and the job i do have I could have gotten without this degree. I’m also $16,000 in debt for this program. I’m utterly disgusted…….and disappointed.
I also, because credits dont transfer, cannot go back to school. I would have to start over from scratch. I just think its ridiculous…and sad. i will be well into my 40s before this debt is paid off.
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As someone who graduated from DBU with a degree in veterinary technology, I think that finding a job really depends on the drive of the person graduating and the job market for that particular type of employment.
As a tech student, we were required to find our own internships at local veterinary clinics as our final quarter of class. Local vet clinics don’t generally take an intern unless they think they’re going to have a position available at the end of the 12 weeks (there are some exceptions), so although I wasn’t able to find placement immediately, I waited 1 quarter (in which I finished out my general classes) and then found an internship at a local vet clinic that hired me 4 weeks into that 12 week internship.
Of course, now that the vet tech program at DBU has been churning out techs every quarter, this area has become saturated with techs needing jobs and not enough vet clinics to support them all. I know of several DBU graduates who had to leave Duluth to find a job in their desired field, and I know even more who aren’t working jobs that even remotely resemble a veterinary clinic (one is working for McDonalds, one at Essentia Health, a couple in group homes or assisted living facilities).
One thing I will agree with, however, is the unbelievably expensive tuition bill you get when you leave DBU. I have been working full time since I graduated and have had to defer my loans the whole time because I simply can’t afford to support a house (I don’t have any kids) and get all those bills paid and come up with an additional $465 a month to pay the loan company. When I graduated, DBU charged something like $345 per credit…my internship was a 10 credit ‘class’, where I paid them several thousand dollars and never stepped foot in the school during that 12 weeks. I had to find my own internship, I had to work it and my regular 3/4 time job and the school did absolutely nothing during that time. Seemed a bit steep considering the school wasn’t using manpower or school facilities to support that internship, but I was ready to be done, so I did it. I’ve heard from several people that the price per credit has increased since I graduated in 2008, so if I left the school with $34,000 worth of debt, I can only imagine what the current students are racking up.
Bottom line in my opinion is that DBU overcharges for the education they provide you with. I can’t speak to the instructors of the other programs, but the vet tech program director and teachers are incredible and really do try to teach you everything they know so you’re prepared for what you’ll encounter in the real world…however, I think overall DBU has gotten a bad reputation for a reason…a few good apples do not a pie make.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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It seems that all of these “Schools” are just modern day scams.
They exist because they figured out that the real deal is not giving you an education, rather, they need you to apply for a loan to cover their huge overpriced tuition fees, etc.
You become the vehicle by which they extract government sanctioned loans that quickly go into their pockets. Simply another form of third party payee… This is allowed as they receive an Okey-Dokey from your government to be a sanctioned school, suitable to receive student loan funding from unsuspecting young or desperate students. Even large Universities are allowed to do the same thing by raising tuition up and up until it costs more to go to their school than to buy a house. The education is no better than in 1970 but it costs 100 times as much… The schools see to it that the student loan limits are inched up each year to pay for their ever increasing fees and students become the pawns in the game. Much like Health Insurance and Hospital Costs… No one would pay caash from their own pocket for this tuition, but they will always accept the loan since they can pay it back later. These aren’t schools, they’re scams.
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These schools are a scam! For the most part they prey upon individuals who do want to better themselves from welfare programs, and they charge an obscene amount of money for a degree that doesn’t pay well. They do this knowing the government hands out these loans like sugared candy. Then they saturate the market to the point where there are no jobs. Until the government catches on this will continue.
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Just keep this story in the back of your minds. The next time you hear a statist politician talk about “investing in education” make a connection.
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So, Dave, you think that a good post secpndary education is not valuable to young people in our society? I think the National concern expressed in the State of the Union is the same one that we have been hearing for most of my life time. Without a highly qualified workforce, our economic positon in the world will continue to struggle.
As an individual who has spent his life educating himslef, I can attest that a quality, focused education program, and high perosnal goals can better ones lot in life. I think the we need to support education and personal achievement in any way that we can. It is our future!
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Pat, I don’t see how anybody could disagree with you.
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“So, Dave, you think that a good post secpndary education is not valuable to young people in our society?”
How did you read that into Dave’s comment? “Invest in education” has become a buzz word poiticians utter when looking for cheap applause. We tend to automatically agree with “investing in education,” even if a particular “investment” is poor…as with DBU. No one’s throwing out higher ed completely…just the scams.
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You mean that DBU’s barrage of ads on tv with PAID ACTORS, aren’t telling the whole story?
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Actually Yellowdog…
The ads with the dorky looking guy and the model pretty girl are paid actors. All the others are actual DBU students who I saw in the halls every day. I know for a fact the ads that are set in the school are not paid actors, but the ones set with the bridge in the background are.
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Massive education debt is piling up on college graduates throughout the United States. How many people graduate from a university with $50,000, $100,000 or $200,000 or more in debt, and are in jobs that hardly require a high school diploma? This story symptomatic of a much larger problem.
An education bubble is coming. As valuable as education is, people are finding out they cannot pay the massive debt they have with low paying service sector employment.
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Right about 70K here.
The best part is the fact that these days a bachelor’s degree is now what a HS diploma was 15 years ago. For many jobs that will allow you to pay back your debts and also build savings you need a graduate degree.
Which of course requires moooooooore debt….
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Going to a Community College is a much better bet. It is well worth it to build up your application for an extra year if you don’t get in the first time (talk to the community college admissions people about how to build up your application). And the credits transfer to a four year college, if that is what you want after two years.
Not only does a Community College cost much less for the student, it costs the taxpayer less in the long run for at least two reasons: the graduate is more likely to pay back the federally subsidized loans, and the person is more likely to get a better-paying job.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Just because we get a degree from anyone institution, private or public, doesn’t mean we get a job, especially in these times and in the Duluth area.
Another part to this story should should look into the job losses in this respective occupation and declining opportunities in Duluth vs. other parts of the region and country.
I would like to know more details about the “personal responsibility†factor of Ms. Bushey. For example;
Has she looked for jobs in markets where they are hiring medical and billing personnel?
Is she willing and/or able to relocate?
Had the time passed for new opportunities in this field while or before she started school?
Have these types of jobs also been sent outside of the United States?
United Healthcare in Duluth does this. Why could she not get a job there since 2005?
The more people know, the less likely they will be to acquire educational debt with little or no chance of a job in their related field of study. I would like to see the DNT investigate more on the regional educational institutions. For example, what does it cost at UMD vs. USW, how is the placement of law enforcement grads from Fond Du Lac Community College going, the difference in cost for transferable credits from Lake Superior College or Hibbing Community College to UMD, and more. This is a good start to some very educational reading and should be continued.
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Just because you can’t get a job in Duluth doesn’t mean the education is worthless. Means you have to be flexible and go where there are jobs.
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David~
That’s a little unrealistic. Many students who are older or returning to college after raising families simply can’t pick up and move to where the jobs are. If they still have school aged children, that means pulling those kids out of school and relocating everyone. It’s not as black and white as just moving to where the jobs are. It takes money to move..and if you’re just out of school, up to your eyelids in debt and trying to find work..how are you supposed to be able to afford to move?
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I’m sorry. It is absolutely realistic. I understand how difficult it is. But there are simple no jobs here. That is a sad fact.
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Maybe because UHC pays less than Mcdonalds….. At least thats what i’m told by some friends who work there.
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First of all, KUDOS to Brandon Stahl for covering this piece! Way to go Brandon!
The first point I would like to address is that DBU will only let a student fail a class two times. After that they are kicked out of the program, I’m sure these people get counted as drop outs even though it’s not of the student’s choosing. It’s a forced issue. DBU is increasing the rate of drop outs at their own doing! They created this mess for themselves! A normal college will let you take the class as many times as you need to, ensuring success of their students. DBU only wants your money.
The second point I would like to address is that the teachers at DBU are sometimes qualified in their fields respectively, but none of them are qualified to teach. Some of them are downright awful at teaching. In fact, at one point their Vet Tech program had a teacher that was not even a licensed technician! This is an institution of higher learning? I think not. Teachers are allowed to call students names and badger them. It is NOT a friendly learning atmosphere (because the teachers do not know how to teach!)
Not one class is geared towards how to manage your student loan payments when you either graduate or get kicked out of a program! They simply don’t care, they only want to make a buck. I think it is sad that the State of MN allows this practice to continue.
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DBU=Dumb Bells Unite
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