by INFORUM
Fargo lacking faith? Men’s Health says yes
November 12, 2010 at 6:00 pm in INFORUM
Men’s Health magazine calls Fargo one of the least-religious cities in America in its December issue, which hits shelves Tuesday. Continue Reading
Fargo lacking faith? Men’s Health says yes
112 Comments
Who cares. Do we have all the gay bashing? Do we have the religious arguments? No we do not. So is that we are less religious or that we are more realistic about religion?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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No gay bashing? No religious arguments? Do you live in a bubble?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Compared to other areas? We do not. Are we having massive gay pride marches and then anti-gay marches? Do we have violence on the streets over religion?
No, not really. Maybe you need to watch more local news.
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LOL. Apparently they didn’t actually come here and notice there is a church every 4 blocks. I wish the article were true, but sadly it isn’t.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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A church every 4 blocks does not make anyone religious. Not even people that call themself Christian. In fact being Christian has nothing to do with what church you go to or even if you go to church.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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For years I have thought we have a church on every corner and way too many people who consider themselves religious, pious, devout, whatever, but do very little in regard to volunteering in the community, donating their money to religious or charitable causes, or purchasing and actually reading books on a topic of which they consider themselves authorities.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Thanks again Mac. There were so many intelligent posts here I’m glad to see you put it back on even keel. I’m curious, just where did you in your finite wisdom learn that religious people do not contribute, volunteer or support charitable causes? Or was that just another mindless tirade without basis? It would be interesting to see your proof on this.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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When I started the statement with “For years I have thought . . .” that means I am sharing a personal opinion, not a documented fact. Thanks for asking, though.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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If going to church makes me a Christian, does standing in a garage make me a car?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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yes
Hot debate. What do you think?
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In much the same way standing in an outhouse makes you a turd.
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And just by the thumbs on this comment, you see how anti-religion biased this AreaVoices forum is.
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Dave, at first glance it does seem anti-religion, but after while with an open-mind, you’ll probably see it’s more anti-hypocrisy. I’ve got a very strong faith, but I’m pretty much over the Pharisees.
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Yeah..I wish it were more true. But it isn’t.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Many people do not attend churches any because of the hypocrisy.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Why should we have to attend church to raise our children to respect other people and themselves? Why should we have to give 10% to the church so they can tell us what we already know? Why should we have to pack into a building where everyone has their Sunday-best faces on, but once you’re in the parking lot they’ll cut you off to get outta there faster? There are better ways to spend your Sunday mornings together as a family, then sitting in a pew getting lectured and constantly watching your kids so they don’t disrupt everyone around you.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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VG, I agree with pretty much most of your comment. The part about being cut off as soon as you leave the parking lot, that’s funny and also true. I am a Christian. I attend church once or twice a month, but I’m not there to show my face and pretend to be someone I am not, rather I show up in for Sunday service to catch the sermon. Attending a service allows me to recharge and become more focused on being a better father, husband, citizen and a friend.
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VG – You points are well understood, but extremely one-sided and quite narrow as to the aspect of a faith community.
Everything you stated is true, but no one is telling you “You have to”. Church as an institution means different things to everyone, and has flaws. Personally, I don’t believe my faith or spiritual beliefs change because I am there on Sunday. But it is about being part of a community which has been supportive to my family through difficult times. And it gives my children and chance to be a part of a group of other kids, and adults, participating in some unique activates.
Do I think I need the church to raise my children or give me moral guidance? No. We are good parents.
Sunday mornings are important, but a church’s work is just as important on the days in between.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Oh so true.. Or the ever so popular activity of whispering behind others backs about the way they dress when they attend services. And my all time favorite… the guy who is a deacon in the church on Sunday, but come Monday he’ll foreclose on your house and does nothing to support the homeless in our community.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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when i went to South a few years ago, there were tons of open atheists. Fargo doesn’t realize it yet, but its actually a pretty liberal city.
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you should look up what pagan actually means. If any part in the country can be called pagan, its the rural/bible belt areas.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Let’s not forget that the word ‘faith’ doesn’t just apply to Christianity. I don’t think “we” have a lack of ‘faith’, just a lack of understanding as to how the word ‘faith’ is applied to religion.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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God looks at the heart.He will decide not a “survey” on how many Christian books we buy.Faith is measured by God not man.My faith hasn’t been large enough yet to move a mountain,and by God’s measuring stick my faith is smaller than a mustard seed.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Oh so true Evy.. I wish more people truly understood that very basic and simple concept.
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It’s ironic they would take a picture of St. Mary’s Catholic church. It is one of the most dedicated churches in Fargo, if not the most dedicated. What other denomination has daily mass, adoration, a Latin mass, and daily confession? Not to mention they took a huge part in 40 days for life among many other events.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I’m sorry but all of those functions you mention are “works”-not faith.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a “gift of God,” not the result of works lest anyone should boast (Eph 2:8-9).
Fargo’s work ethic (which is strong) has driven people to feel “self sufficient” and not in need of God. Many people like Bishop Rindy believe things like “mass” or a “food drive” are signs of faith, but they are not. They are works by which people pride themselves for how generous they are, just like the Pharisees. Last I checked, the name of Christ is nowhere to be found on the “Fill the Dome” website; it is a completely pagan function.
“Whatever you do in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus” (Colossians 3:17). Unfortunately for many Fargoans, they are ashamed of the name “Jesus” and are unwilling to admit they are rotton sinners in need of a Savior-to die for their sins and conquer death in resurrection. This is why Fargo is at the bottom of the list.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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My friend, I understand “works,” and I know my Bible well. Works are a result of salvation, not a path to it. Adoration, Latin Mass, confirmation, etc. and these other “sacraments” are nowhere to be found in the Bible, they are human tradition; merely an invention.
Jesus addressed this when the Pharisees asked him in Mark 7:5 “why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the “elders?” (in Greek “bishops”). Jesus replied in verse 6; “you hypocrites… neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men… you are experts at setting aside the commandment of God to keep your tradition” (vs 8-9). “thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as this.” (vs 13).
Paul also said “See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the TRADITION of men… rather than according to Christ.” (Colossians 2:8).
There are two paths (1) follow a bunch of fabricated religious rules, and do good deeds thinking that we may somehow “impress” the God of the universe? The problem: “all have sinned and fall “short” of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), and “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23a). This leads to condemnation.
Path (2) Believe in the perfect sinless Christ, who followed every rule we didn’t, and on the cross paid the penalty for yours and my wickedness, satisfying God’s need for justice and then arose from the grave to prove He defeated death once and for all-for all who believe. “The wages of sin is death, but the “free gift” of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus” (Romans 6:23). “Christ died once for all sins, the just for the unjust, so he could reconcile us to God (1 Peter 3:18). This is the path to heaven.
“If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, BUT NOT BEFORE GOD” (Romans 4:2). ” But to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Christ who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness” (Romans 4:5).
Praise God, good deeds are VERY important. a Christian does them to bring glory to “the Christ,” out of appreciation to Him for reconciling us to God through His blood. They are not a path to righteousness, Christ took care of that 2000 years ago!
“To those who have ears, let them hear!”
Hot debate. What do you think?
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JP, I couldn’t agree more. I feel blessed and reassured Knowing for sure I will het to heaven. Unfortunately, others try vainly to work or earn their way there, when all you need to do is simply accept God’s “gift” to the world. If you have to work or earn your salvation, it no longer becomes a gift.
I agree with the article. Fargo is not nearly as faithful as it could or should be. But why compare it to other places? For there is none righteous, no, not one (romans 3:10). Is faith a competition? By the way people are arguing on this blog it would appear so. Why argue about where we stand in the ranks or if the article is accurate or not? What we should be asking our selves is how do become a more faithful community?
I see two sides to this argument. Those who have too much pride to admit they need God so they refuse Him. Then those who have so much pride, they feel that Fargo was “misrepresented” in the article. We can’t let our pride get in the way of the Lord. We need to spread the gospel so that more may know how to get to Heaven!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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The bible was not the start of Christianity, Christianity started the bible. It is not the only place to look for reference of your faith. Look to the writings of the apostles and the earliest Christians. There you will find truth in the sacraments.
If you do not look up these at least look up John chapter 6.
1. Baptism = is the initiation of a person into Christianity
* Forgiveness of sins & reception of the Holy Spirit (Ezekiel 36:25-27 (“All scripture…”: 2 Tim 3:16), Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16)
* Baptized into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:11-12)
* Baptism necessary for salvation (1 Peter 3:20-21, John 3:5 (also note verse 22)
* Instituted by Christ (Matthew 28:19)
2. Reconciliation (also known as Confession) = The means by which God forgives sins after baptism
*Confess your sins to men (Leviticus 5:5-6 (“All scripture…”: 2 Tim 3:16), (Law is a shadow: Hebrews 10:1), 1 John 1:9, James 5:16)
*Can men forgive sins? Only God has the power to forgive sins but He exercises this power through men. (Mark 2:7, Matthew 9:1-8)
*Instituted by Christ (John 20:21-23)
3.Eucharist = Communion is an intimate encounter with Christ, in which we sacramentally receive Christ into our bodies
* A perfect offering shall be made (Malachi 1:11 (“All scripture…”: 2 Tim 3:16)
*Flesh & Blood (John 6, Matthew 26:26-28, Mark 14:22-24,Luke 22:19-20, 1 Cor 11:23-26, 27-29)
* Many disciples leave (John 6:66, Usually Jesus explains parables to avoid confusion as in: Matthew 13; 15:15; 17:10-19; & chapter 19)
*Instituted by Christ (Luke 22:19)
4. Confirmation = is a sacrament of initiation into the Christian life by confirming your faith
* Laying of the hands (Acts 8:14–17, 9:17, 19:6)
*Christianity’s basic teachings (Hebrews 6:2)
*Instituted by Christ (John 3:5)
5. Matrimony = is the union between a man and a woman as a whole with God’s blessings
*As a constitution between a man and a woman (Luke 16:18; cf. Mark 10:11–12, Rom 7:2-3)
* Instituted by Christ (1 Cor. 7:10-11)
6. Holy Orders = is the sacrament by which a person decides to dedicate their entire lifes to serve the Lord
* Bishops (1 Tim. 5:19–22; 2 Tim. 4:5; Titus 1:5)
*Priests (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15)
*Deacons (Acts 6:1–6)
* Instituted by Christ (2 Tim. 2:2)
7.Anointing of the Sick = is administered to bring spiritual and even physical strength during an illness, especially near the time of death
* Strength from the Holy Spirit (Matt. 8:17)
*Healing powers (Mark 6:13)
*Forgiveness of sin (Jas. 5:14–15)
* Instituted by Christ (Mark 6:13; Jas. 5:14-15)
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“We need to spread the gospel so that more may know how to get to Heaven!”
NO. You do NOT. Leave people alone. If you believe that stuff, fine. But keep it out of my kids’ ears.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Kyle, I feel you missed my point. I feel WE ALL need to be more faithfull. Regardless of what denomination we are. I’m not here to argue. I agree with you on some of your points. But, I also have some a couple quick questions Was the theif on the cross baptized first before he went to be with Jesus in paradise?(Luke 23:43) All he did was show his faith was confess Christ as his lord. I read John 6. Verses 37-39, 47, mention nothing of the Eucharist. Verses 50-58 are explained by verse 63.
Look at verse 64. Are you believing in Jesus’ sacrifice to get to heaven or your baptism, your partaking of the Lords Supper, your confessions (ALL IMPORTANT, but not essential)?
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He was being put to death in the same way as Christ, and only feet away. He was literally dying with the Son of God.He also made a unique profession of faith.
Baptism is something the Church carries out in the name of Christ, and by Christ’s command. It gains it’s efficacy only because He commanded it, and the Holy Spirit honors Christ’s command. Therefore when God the Son speaks Himself, His word is binding all by itself.
We have baptism because Christ told us to implement this sacrament. It is a result of His command, and the thief also entered Paradise as the result of His command.
Now this is where it is important to look at the earliest Christians and what they believe. They believed Jesus was actually present in the Eucharist and that it was the summit of the mass. Furthermore, I do not think you can simply say 63 explains it away, he was quite morbid, gruesome, and repetitive in what he was saying about the Eucharist in 53- 59. Now, again, I can not discuss as eloquently as some but I do encourage you to listen to 1280am for some better dialogue.
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Men’s Health has no idea what they’re talking about. Their research methodology wouldn’t pass any 200 level sociology methods class. The best way to measure religiosity has long been to survey how often one goes to religious services, how often one prays, and how often one reads a religious text. Gallup, Pew, and all the major social research institutions at universities do this, and North Dakota consistently gets ranked as one the most religious states, and I don’t think Fargo is all that much different from the rest of the state. In addition, their measure of patriotism is a joke. I can’t believe they actually published results from that. Flags and fireworks? You can’t even buy fireworks in dozens of states. It’s like saying you support the soldiers in the Middle East by putting a stupid bumper sticker on your car.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I agree about the method of research for this article. But most of the comments I read on here are stereotyping. This is not a matter of democrat vs. republican, volunteering vs. not volunteering. This is a case by case basis. Fargo is a diverse community in a lot of respects, and if I don’t attend church with my kids while my husband is working out of town in 30 below weather, does that make me less religious? Less of a caring person? How I long for the day when people stop pointing the finger and turn them around at themselves. @how I cit, TOTALLY agree. For me, church is an hour of quiet, reflection, and I take from it what I want and need. “Christians” who judge others are not Christians.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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fargo is actually quite a bit different than th rest of the state culturally.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Just out of curiosity what is their research methodology?
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Going to church every Sunday is a great start to a great day for our family. The rest of the week is very busy and we treat it as much as possible a day of rest. It makes for a easy Monday morning.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I have to agree they need to use a little more or better criteria. There is a lot of volunteerism that goes on without being reported, because well….not everyone volunteers to get credit. I do think church attendance is a minor criteria though, because going to church does not make you a faithful person. If you get out of church and fail to live a good Christian lifestyle, then you are betraying God. You can’t go to church every Sunday to get forgiven for your sins and ignore it every other day. Yes, I know, some churches teach that, but the logic is faulty. How much is donated is also a good criteria, but far too many donations go unrecorded. Yes, the church knows what it get s in the recieving plate, but what about all the unplanned donations we make, such as of goods. It’s a lot harder to track that value.
Now, all that being said- I don’t go to church. I believe the comeraderie is a wonderful idea, but I also don’t think my faith in God can be contained in a building or that another human, who is fallable, has the right to judge me and unfortunately in todays religious/political climate, “Judge thy neighbor” has replaced “love thy Neighbor”.(Yes as I type this I realize I’m judging people and I don’t like the fact that organized religion has driven me to this point)….No, i know it’s not everybody or every church, but I’ve been to several and found too many around me cared more about appearances than their connection to God. I also prefer to interpret the bible myself because in the end, I don’t really feel like I should be stoned to death for being a divorcee.
LOL
Oh an someone mentioned Fargo is not that different from the rest of ND but you’d be really surprised. I am from a small town in central ND and I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t go to church regularly. Here I only know 1 family of 10 that attends church more than the holidays.
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christian philosophy has changed a ton over the decades, and christian faiths vary wildly over the spectrum of ideas. Even catholicism has change dramatically over the last century or so, as well as other periods of time.
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Kyle, not sure how you think the Catholic church has not changed? At one point the pope could openly have a consort (lover). Doubt he has one now. Originally, nuns weren’t allowed out of their convent- that’s certainly changed. Those are just the first two that spring to mind. The mass used to be in Latin and Latin-only and the congregtion were not allowed (not just coudln’t afford it because they were no printing presses) actualy not allowed to possess Bibles. Also, women were certainly not allowed to be educated.
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the catholic church once advocated slaughtering pagans, and did this early and often. Clearly this is no longer something the catholic church practices.
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“There is one church which has not been swayed and has been consistent for two thousand years.”
Which one?
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There’s Religion, and then there’s Plain Old-Fashioned Decency.
We have plenty of the latter in how we take care of our neighbor, no matter if we go sit in the front pew or not.
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Well said Liberty. I just don’t understand why people in this area shy away from organized religion.(sarcasm people)
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Liberty and Mac, you guys have set the bar high for the rest of us. Unfortunately several people have tripped over it.
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What bothers me about the article is the person who quotes volunteerism and good behavior in the area with religion. That has NOTHING to do with religion and moreso to do with being a good person. As far as I’m concerned, nonreligious people are FAR more moral than those who need a ‘reason’ to be good.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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I don’t feel like I can be an out-of-the-closet atheist in this town without there being repercussions. Am I wrong about that? Are people here more tolerant of religious diversity than I think they are?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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I don’t know why Maria. It looks to me like it would be riskier to be an “out of the closet” Christian in Fargo going by the number of people on this website claiming to be atheists.
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Riskier how? Would your job be in jeopardy if you came out as a Christian? Would you lose friends? Would your children be bullied at school if anyone found out their parents are Christians? Those are the things I’m concerned about, as an atheist.
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Look at where the line is on the colored bar for you Maria. You seem to have no problem finding people who like what you say on here,haha. Unless you and your children go around trying to convert people to atheism I can’t see why you would ever have a problem. Religion hardly ever came up for discussion in my school or in my job.
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I’m not talking about here, I’m talking about in my actual life. People who are in the majority really have no idea what it’s like to be in the minority. The things you take for granted are things we have to think about. In the town I used to live in, the second question people asked me was, “what church do you go to?” I work in customer service, and I hear people talk all the time about church activities or what church they go to. If anybody asks me I say I’m not religious, but I never say that I’m an atheist because I’m positive that it would change how they see me and possibly even have a negative effect on the business.
I had a friend who didn’t know I was an atheist say that atheists are Satan-worshippers. I’ve had other people just avoid me altogether when they find out. It’s hard to know who is okay to tell and who isn’t. So mostly I just don’t tell people.
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Even though I’m a Christian I don’t go to a church either. I’ve never had anyone ask what I believe in unless I offer to tell. As far as being fired for religious beliefs or lack therof I think the law prohibits that. In my work all my fellow employess were men and talking about church activities was way down the list of discussion topics.
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plenty of people have disassociated themselves with me once they found out my religious preferences.
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Let’s look at the criteria shall we?
The criteria used include:
Number of places of worship per capita using data from the U.S. Census and yellow pages.
–there may be a lot of churches, but there are very few mosques, synagogues, buddhist temples, hindu temples and etc.
Religious organizations and the number of volunteers who support them from data on VolunteeringinAmerica.gov.
–Its obvious Fargo is full of Republicans. Republicans usually believe in dog-eat-dog political philosophy, which is contrary to volunteering and helping others.
Amount of money donated to religious groups.
–Again, the competitive dog-eat-dog, the market will work its magic philosophy is contrary to donation.
Dollars spent on religious books.
–It’s been my experience that conservatives are usually anti-intellectual. Why would they read anything…they already know everything.
It my view that this town is full of psuedo-christians and the Men’s Health article is right on.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Mr. Michael, I find your remarks quite accurate. There are a tremendous number of hypocritical and selfish people that live in the region. There are a lot of Lutheran churches but their members old and they are largely empty on Sunday. This does not bode well for many congregations. When a community lacks moral character it becomes less desireable as a place to live.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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if only religion and moral character weren’t so often contrary ideas. The most vicious people i’ve ever met have been religious types.
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to clarify most religious people aren’t by any means bad.
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Mr Freemoorhead, After reviewing your posts and those of many of your Republican compatriates there is a disturbing and consistent pattern. You seem to be very angry people that are continually distracted from the debate with name calling and lack of respect for other opinions. Your method of debate portrays you as uneducated and unable to engage in inteligent discourse. I am sure this is not the case but many people, they will believe this. Your arguments would be taken much more seriously if you did not attack the commentors. That is, unless you have no retort for the comments. Then you are simply another disgruntled Republican. You may wish to reconsider your lot in life and forgoe the misery for a more pleasant and thoughtful lifestyle. You will find more friends that way and you will live longer.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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So Jabarwalky, you label freemoorhead and attack him stating he is part of some evil republican group. Guess that makes you part of the problem.
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Mr. Opinionated, I did not do as Mr. freemoorhead suggest such as defacating on the Bible or telling him to go back to Europe or wherever his ancestors came from. I think if you read the posts you cannot compare the vitriol in Mr. freemorheads posts to mine. He clearly displays an anger problem. As do many of his sympathyzers. He exhibits racist demeanor. His arguments might be more convincing if he actually provided some debatable comments rather than simply attack the character of the posters. This is a tactic well documented by Mr. Rove during the Bush elections. If you question this, ask Mr. McCain who was a beneficiary of the Rove attacks. You can argue any way you wish but unless you can actually provide some accurate statements, you are just blowing dust.
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Freemoorhead,
I have seen your posts on subjects related to taxation and social welfare. You epitomize the egoist ethic. Your heart is black and filled with greed. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Just because I’m no longer a teenager doesn’t mean I can’t be sullen and rebellious.
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what about the government is not dog-eat-dog??
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It’s just corporate dog-eat-dog with who gets the most govt favors. Ahh big government at work!
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Although I am not religious I have to disagree with Republicans not being generous. Actually, the most conservative areas of the nation donate more per capita to charity than the more liberal areas. That is fact. Also, not all of us atheists are socialist loons. In fact, like Ayn Rand, many of us are pro-capitalist/libertarian in our philosophy. Michael Shermer ,an intellectual and founder of the Skeptics Society which I belong, is philosophically libertarian/ pro-capitalist too.
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republican areas also tend to be the poorest and most broken parts of the country. People in new england for instance, choose to you the instruments of government to achieve the aims of charity, and this has worked out well for them since these areas are by far the wealthiest and happiest parts of the country.
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Being from the rural south I have to say there is plenty of government welfare going around which is the largest contributor to the continuation of poverty among the lower classes. Yet, these areas have the fastest growing economies ( with the exception of Mississipi) because of their low tax, low cost of living, and business friendly environments. Admittedly, they still have a long way to go though. In fact, looking at the last two censuses, the Northeast has seen a decline in its population. You are correct that the Northeast has a higher income, but this is juxtaposed with a much higher cost of living having a net effect of a lower standard of living of people who are similarly educated. I’ve lived all around. I prefer the North Dakota or the South because of these dynamics. All are red areas. I am not religious though.
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Chins:
Did you know a recent survey said Atheists and Agnostics know more about religion than ‘Believers and/or Christians? This was a survey by a religious organization. Christians don’t even come in second. Jews do. The theory is that Atheists and Agnostics become unhappy with their religion growing up and take more time to learn about it instead of just being fed the information by the pastor and ony retaining little bits. I know I can tell my husband far more about Christianity, Bible passages, and other religion’s dogmas than he can me and he was raised completely active in the church, while I was left to find it on my own. Even my father-in-law, an intelligent man and head of the church council several times over, has referred to me for clarification and most people woudl consider me a lot closer to agnostic than ‘saved’.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/09/28/survey-atheists-know-more-about-religion-than-believers/
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Jo K
Your right about atheists becoming this way from growing up Christian and eventually becoming unhappy. While fist-generations Christians usually have a deep faith in Christ, faith does not come automatically when passed down generations. If a child is forced to go to church, and not given a reason, they just view it as a set of rules limiting them from something they don’t even care about in the first place. It’s up to the parents to teach the kids WHY they choose to go. They don’t know what faith is yet. Until you see your need for salvation, you will not seek it. Although I don’t necessarily agree with your beliefs, I agree many agnostics an athiests stem from a bitterness towered religion. But knowledge and faith are two totally separate(and oppisite) things.
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I agree, knowledge and faith are different, otherwise we wouldn’t have those with blind faith who do what they are told without questioning. Those people are necessary.
Unfortunately, I don’t think anyone, Religious or Atheist, is right to berate others for what they chose or try to convert people to their side. So I see why you get upset at the ‘atheists’ on the boards that you mentioned. I was only defending them as far as to say they probably do know quite a bit about religion, moreso than many Christian posters. I don’t think any of us has to right to say someone elses choice is wrong- only God will be able to do that when/if we meet him. Actually, I tend to stay away from most people whose political and religious opinions are so vocal that they tempt me to argue- I don’t think it’s my place to try to change their mind as long as no one is hurt by their opinions. LOL Except on here….go figure!
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And who was also donating to the cause right alongside members of the congregations? The rest of us. Just because I don’t belong to a church, doesn’t mean I don’t support causes and help my neighbors in need.
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Quit it Barb, alright! I had more fun hating you when you spewed liberal attitudes so often in the past. Lately I’ve begun to grow a high level of respect for many of your posts and it’s frustrating.
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It scares me too.
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free thinkers aren’t a charity, thats not their purpose. I give money to the red cross/crescent and other organizations as need arises.
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Just because you go to church doesn’t make you religious. There are a lot of false christians in church and in the ministry.
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Well…who can argue with Men’s Health? However I heard that “Basket Weaving Today” had us ranked much higher.
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Well this just shows how accurate survey’s are and why I could care less what anyone else outside N.D. has to say. You do not have to go to Church to believe in God, this is America not some Muslim nation where you are harrassed like a dog and brain washed over and over again, apparently the rest of the world could learn something from Fargo and that is Freedom of Church.
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Men’s Health can just…GO TO HELL! (so there)
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That is one of the dumbest posts you have submitted.
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Why say “Fargo Lacks Faith” ….that is so negative. Most persons who don’t practice a religion do not feel deprived in any way.
I’d prefer to read: “Fargo Rates Highly in Secularism”
or better still, “Fargo is blossoming into a culturally diverse city where most mind their own business”
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I agree, LisaP. I was reading this article as a good thing, yet it was printed in a negative tone. That really irritated me. As I stated up further, religion has absolutely nothing to do with being a good person…unless you count the fact that it segregates societies and turns people into hateful bigots.
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You’re right, KBiz! Goodness can and does exist outside of religion.
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I think the difference between atheists and Christians isn’t generosity so much as it’s organization. To their credit, religious organizations are much better organized at giving. They provide frequent and systematic opportunities for giving, as well as an element of public nudging. I submit that if an atheist were in a situation where he was publicly, amongst his friends and neighbors, handed a collection plate 52 times per year and was frequently asked to donate time and effort to a good cause, then he would probably donate just as much as the religious person. Religious organizations should be credited for what they do, but it doesn’t mean the non-religious are not also willing to give (or that they don’t).
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Michael Ross you’re nuts!!! Athiests know much more about the Christian religion than most Christians. Go study the history of Christianity and you too may disbelieve that nonsense. Blind faith is a terrible thing.
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In the end, if there is only one true religion, a lot of people will spend an eternity in hell. What will that only true religion be? What if you are wrong? Have you considered this? Creationism has been proven wrong. Are there other beliefs that could also be wrong? To those of you that say I will go to hell, you may be right. You may be wrong. I will say hello to Mr. Bush for you.
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Faith is just that you idiots. It’s blind…hence why it’s called faith. If you can’t comprehend that simple notion, you have no faith. To each their own. But don’t try and diminish or dismiss what others believe in or have faith in, just because a lot of you don’t.
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The measurements used by the magazine were clearly skewed toward a southern, congregationalist, non-liturgical form of Christian worship.
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Abu, Islam is certainly not the one true religion.
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neither is christianity.
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Mr. Zardoz, why do you tell me? I am not Muslim. Do you stereotype me because of my name? Perhaps Christianity “is certainly not the one true religion”. But just because someone is a Christian does not mean they will not go to hell. But I am sure you are already aware of this.
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b/vrtg–r y stll kpng p ths ct? fnny…;)
psst, t’s gttng lttl ld……
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Miss not Bastet/Kevin/German Shepard/Zardoz, I am not vertigo. Why do you say this. Are you Kevin? I think so. And I also think you are Mr. German Shepard and also Mr. Kowalski. What is it you call someone who is both a man and a woman? I don’t know the word “psst”. Do you mean “to urinate”? Is not that disrespectful? I believe you disrespect me because of my name. Maybe you should just make believe my name is “Fred Smith”.
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yeah……youbetcha…..
trip trap, trip trap, trip trap…..
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Miss not Bastet, I see you are not who you say you are. You live in Wasilla Alaska and were born in 1914. You are Sarah Palin. You are very sneaky to pose as not Bastet.
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I think it’s funny that when Men’s Health (or any other magazine) has a study that benefits Fargo/North Dakota the Forum is the first to publish the study with no interviews to support the study. Yet when it is a study that is (in the Forum’s opinion) anti-Fargo, they go out of their way to find experts to refute all the claims made in the study. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, Forum.
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As an atheist dude, I say we keep educating the public about religion. The history of religion. What’s been done in the name of religion. What’s really in the bible, torah, and koran and other religious texts. Study and share what science is saying about evolutionary psychology. What science is saying about the evolution of the universe and all living things. Study study study research and think think think talk discuss learn learn learn.
Peace everyone.
Nothing will make you an atheist faster than knowledge.
Skoal! Have a pretend cyber swallow with me fellow dudes.
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