by INFORUM
Clinton rallies Minnesota crowd for Bachmann foe Clark
October 24, 2010 at 7:00 pm in INFORUM
BLAINE, Minn. Former President Bill Clinton criticized Minnesota Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann as too far right as he made a campaign stop late Sunday to support Democrat Tarryl Clark in the nation’s most expensive House race. Continue Reading
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500 whole people….I’m sure old Bill was wondering what the hell he was doing there.
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500 people at 11pm on a Sunday night. Not bad!
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Actually for a former president and candidate to draw a measly 500 in a metropolitan area the size of Minneapolis is pretty much crap. Bachman has maintained a healthy 10 point lead throughout the entire campaign in a largely Dem state despite the huge amounts of cash the dems have wasted…err…I mean spent during this campaign, sorry, it’s over. Look at the bright side, you Dems love to blame anyone but yourselves for the countries’ problems. Soon you will have a whole new Speaker and House to blame for your ineffectiveness and incompetence. By the way, since Pelosi took the Speaker’s chair and vowed no new deficit spending, the national debt has increased 5 trillion dollars, three of that under Mr. O.
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I can’t believe anybody supports Michele Bachmann. Have any of you actually met her or lived in the 6th district? I bet not ONE of you has done EITHER. Yet you can’t wait to endorse her. Kinda funny really.
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I agree default. The audacity of someone to express an opinion of a congressperson, and THEY DON’T EVEN LIVE IN THE DISTRICT! This is unprecendeted in American history. On top of that, they have formed an opinion of her without actually meeting her in person. You and I should get together and amend the Constitution so that you can only vote for a person, or even express an opinion about them, after you have met them. LET’S DO IT! (As I run out of the room, ala John Belushi in Animal House.)
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Ahh yes, very amusing sarcasm indeed.
But my point stands. What do you know about this woman that you didn’t learn from television or from other people’s opinions?
The answer is: NOTHING.
As Dean Wormer said: “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.”
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Remember when Gerald Ford was President and folks had to get swine flu shots? Michele Bachman should have, but it didn’t stop her from saying:
“I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out then under another Democratic president, Jimmy Carter. And I’m not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it’s an interesting coincidence.â€
Then she went through the whole “don’t fill out your census forms” thing because the Govt was going to use ‘em to round up people and put them in them there concentration camps…
Paranoid? I think she is. Minnesota can do better.
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“amazing the forum reader allows people to use default as a name…no integrity there.”
Could you please explain that comment? I am not following a username with lack of integrity connection you’re asserting.
I think the name is clever.
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haha–bill, everyone knows that default is you….you got the boot once too many times as Jack–and now bill–and so now you’ve moved on as ‘default’….haha good one
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First I DID live in the district during MB’s first election cycles, and I have met her. Let me reassure those who have done neither that all the absurdity displayed by MB, all the electoral grandstanding, that she is a caricature of herself, and will not deliver any representation for the district. Notoriety of course, but not representation.
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That was similar to my impressions of her. She is a pandering chameleon. Her personality is as substanceless and paper-thin as they come, unfortunately. Stillwater deserves better.
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Could you name anything explicitly that you disagree with Obama’s actions on? “Healthcare” doesn’t cut it. What specifically do you disagree with?
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Wow. His entire agenda? That’s incredible.
So you oppose the following:
Reducing taxes (98.6% of Americans saw their tax rate go down the year after Obama entered office).
Expanding gun rights.
Credit card bill of rights.
Defending the defense of marriage act.
Increasing guaranteed loans for small businesses.
Fixing the doughnut hole in Medicare D.
Expanding SCHIP.
Requiring insurers to disclose how much of their premiums actually go to health care.
Expanding funding to train rural health care providers.
Fully funding the VA.
Removing combat brigades from Iraq.
Increasing our military presence in Afghanistan.
Increasing funding for local emergency planning (such as flood control in the RRV).
Releasing presidential records.
Expanding public lands available for hunting and fishing.
Expanding public transit.
Appointing cabinet members regardless of party affiliation.
…Good to know… I mean, there’s a whole lot of other matters, but I really wonder what kind of person you are. Most “conservatives” would support most, if not all, of the above.
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And wait don’t tell us- GW was the 2nd coming of Abe Lincoln, right? Or just simply God in the flesh?
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Still waiting for some specifics, Marty. And where’d the ‘majority’ of Americans stat come from? Majority in your house?
It’s pretty clear the conservatives are going to sweep the elections. Frankly, I cannot wait. I’m going to take the truckloads of money I make from the promised economic prosperity and retire to illegal alien free Arizona.
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The whole bill, every inch…understand?
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So does the entire 6th district.
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Wow, what an incredible statement. First) I know you have not read the entire bill, so to say you disagree with it, “every inch” is a preposterously ignorant and likely indefensible position. Second) Your inability to point to any one thing as an example suggests further that you are unlikely to have read any of it, third, your potty mouth attitude suggests blind adherence to a flat earth mentality.
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The man has his faults but he’s an astonishingly intelligent, educated man and (even considering a few black marks on his administration) was a phenomenal president. Let’s see a Republican create a surplus.
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He graduated in the top 10% of his class at Harvard Law. That’s pretty spectacular. He was also part of the ~10% of people who make it onto the Harvard Law Review editorial board. Any argument trying to claim the man is not intelligent is rather stupid. Should he release his transcripts? Perhaps. He did apply for a job, so to speak… But at the same time, the only people who keep crying about this are going to fixate on the C he got in some irrelevant course instead of how well he did in the courses that mattered.
…Where are your college transcripts?
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And the basic equirements for Harvard Law are at least a score in the top 3% of those taking the national LSAT (Law School Admission Test).
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He doesn’t have any.. and if he does they are forged.
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“Brag about Clinton, that guy would not be allowed withing 500 yards of my teenage daughter, he is a pervert.”
LOL! What are you basing that on? He may be a pig of a heterosexual married man, but a pervert? Which perverted things is Ole Bill into, exactly? You must know, right? Goat sex rituals? :p
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It is ironic that you denegrate Obama when the Republican candidate, McCain, finished near the bottom of his military academy class. I believe it was something ike 795th of 798. My father used to tell me “never growl like a camel when you are riding one”. You should get off your camel and run first.
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Do you mock my name?
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For someone supposedly educated (I will need to see your papers before I believe it) you display and amazing amount of ignorance, poor usage, and outright flim flam credulity. “fascist in chief” Explain that one, or maybe explain what you think fascism is and how Obama fits your description. Further, explain your sources and prognosis of Clinton as a “pervert” Again, perhaps just give us your definition. Finally, “funny abu shali khalik shabazz uses a good Reagen democrat ” , your mockery is unbecoming and you can’t even spell your idiot hero’s name. NDSU should be embarrassed if you really did graduate from there, I hope you never got to teach anything.
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I thought all those descriptions by Philip Gray were quite measured and subdued as to what they might more accurately have been. Go Bison!
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Remember when Sarah Palin was the most dangerous politician in the US? I sure miss those days.
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She still is. The only difference is that she at least now knows that Africa is not a country.
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For some reason there is no reply box for Andrew’s wild eyed Obama accomplishments. Please provide proof of these alleged accomplishments.
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You really are lost in your own version of reality aren’t you?
“He did not reduce taxes for 98.6 Americans” Yes he did. Apparently the moderators didn’t like all my links though. It’s easy enough to look up for yourself.
“How did he expand gun rights?” Ignoring the multiple states that have expanded gun rights since he has been in office, there is also HR 627 (2009).
“The unemployment rate proves that. ” What, the decreasing differential on unemployment? The recovering economy? Please. It takes time to right an upturned ship. We have been facing the worst recession since the Great Depression. The Obama administration may not be doing things the best way, but why in the world would we put the government back in the hands of the very same people who flipped the ship in the first place?
“Even Left Leaning Liberal Democrats are running away from this man.” Which explains why his approval ratings month-to-month are higher than Reagan and have started increasing again.
“WAKE UP PEOPLE, BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.” OH NOES!!!!
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the stimulus bill contained tax cuts for every person that pays federal income taxes in america.
Noone is investing because capital utilization is already low, why build more plants when you aren’t using the ones you have?
The economy is only struggling still because of budget cuts at the state and local level, the private sector has had job gains for 9 months now. In as much as we are still in a recession, its because of contractionary government policy.
obama inherited a 1.4 trillion dollar deficit when he entered office, with tax cuts (and less revenue and greater deficits) already on the books for 2009&2010. The guy isn’t a magician and can’t turn around the economy and tax revenues on a dime.
I have no idea what the unemployment rate has to do with small business. I don’t think you do either.
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It’s to bad Bill can’t run for office again.
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If you are refering to Monica L. she was 22 years old when she seduced Bill Clinton. I wonder how many young women JFK had sex with in the White House.
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Oh so poor little Slick Willie was “seduced”? Yea, I bet he was trying to fight off Monica with all his might, haha.
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Well, Sundown….you know Monica is just so smokin’ hot (no pun intended.) That bod – who could resist those ripples of lard!
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He runs for orifice continually.
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I don’t see li’l gw stumping for any republicans. Oh wait, that’s right – his ratings were so low when he left no one will touch him. Can’t wait for his book to come out…
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It will be a short story I bet.
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Maybe he’s a bit classier than the Dems and knows his day is done. Maybe Jimmy and Billy should take a page from the great Ronald Reagan and quietly retire from public life after the job is over. It seems we don’t hear any bloviating from Ford or Bush Sr. either. Must be a little more sophistication in that Republican crowd. I’m just sayin. . .
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Reagan had Alzheimers, so it’s not like he had a choice in the matter. Bush senior is still pretty active politically, and pretty liberal by 2010 standards. Noone would care what Ford had to say.
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Unlike their Democrat counterparts (Carter, Clinton, Gore), the Republican former presidents and presidential candidates (Bush I, Dole, Bush II, McCain) dont’ run around undercutting the current administration by talking about how great and misunderstood they were when they were president and how much better they would be than the current president. The Republicans seem to realize their time of relavance has passed and that there is no good that can come from constantly critisizing the current president. IT JUST ISN’T PRESIDENTIAL (ie. lacks class.) My guess is our current president will be out there in a few years, talking up his own presidency and talking down the administration of that time. Again, IT’S ABOUT CLASS/RESPRECT FOR THE OFFICE and it appears the Democrat presidents of the past (current) lack a lot of both.
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The reason the republicans don’t have Bush 1, Dole, Bush2, and McCain campaign for them is because it would help the Democrats more than the Republicans.
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It’s not about campaigning, it about the unending need to be in the spotlight. I don’t think Carter is really a plus for the Democrats, but he is out promoting his 16th book, still throwing out sour grapes about his presidency. Al Gore also is no big plus for the Democrats, but yet he feels the need to weigh in about current policy (when Bush was in office). Again, it is about class – knowing when your time has passed and not always needing to jump up and say REMEMBER ME – I’M STILL RELEVANT! Please, just fade into the background, and, if you feel the need to still be in the spotlight, have a little class about it (ie. if you want everyone to remember you were president once, ACT PRESIDENTIAL).
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Look how many Democrats don’t want Obama to campaign for them either. A good example is Joe Manchin from West Virginia. His ad where he shoots a copy of the Cap and Trade bill with a high power rifle is hilarious.
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Andrew, yes we all get a little money back in our paychecks, but here is whats coming.
SpaceNewsvineRedditDeliciousMixxYahooPresident Obama’s budget proposes $989 billion in new taxes over the course of the next 10 years, starting fiscal year 2011, most of which are tax increases on individuals.
1) On people making more than $250,000.
$338 billion – Bush tax cuts expire
$179 billlion – eliminate itemized deduction
$118 billion – capital gains tax hike
Total: $636 billion/10 years
2) Businesses:
$17 billion – Reinstate Superfund taxes
$24 billion – tax carried-interest as income
$5 billion – codify “economic substance doctrine”
$61 billion – repeal LIFO
$210 billion – international enforcement, reform deferral, other tax reform
$4 billion – information reporting for rental payments
$5.3 billion – excise tax on Gulf of Mexico oil and gas
$3.4 billion – repeal expensing of tangible drilling costs
$62 million – repeal deduction for tertiary injectants
$49 million – repeal passive loss exception for working interests in oil and natural gas properties
$13 billion – repeal manufacturing tax deduction for oil and natural gas companies
$1 billion – increase to 7 years geological and geophysical amortization period for independent producers
$882 million – eliminate advanced earned income tax credit
Total: $353 billion/10 years
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And do you want to complete your overwrought and meaningless litany and explain the specifics of how those taxes may apply to each of us as individuals and how much the average 50 to 6ok/yr will pay in taxes or receive in refunds. Your list is a lot like giving sports scores like this: 24 to 20, 116 to 98, 31 to 14, and 5 to 1.
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That’s not proof, that’s a list. I asked a fair question and neither you nor jeff will or can explain it, Just like listing sports scores without list the teams that made them or even where those scores occurred it makes the list useless. How many of those taxes apply specifically to you and how much will it increase your burden. And how many of those taxes were also supported by republicans. You guys are so one sided that if you turned just a little bit you would disappear.
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Where did Con Brio go? She must have done an extreme far left turn.
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A translation from Rambonian: “She must have done an extreme far left turn.” actually means “Rambo made an extreme far right turn”
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Without me around how would you come up with any ideas Con?
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Agian, North Dakota nice. I moved to this state with good intentions, unfortunely true colors have shown. I say SHAME on YOU!
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Do you notice how everyone is always demonizing big oil, natural gas, etc…. Every time they get dinged it comes out of everyone’s pockets. As a matter of fact from 1998 to 2008 big oils profits were roughly 585 billion, but what everyone fails to recognize is that the Federal government collected 500 billion in tax revenue plus an additional 1.3 trillion dollars in gasoline tax. Look at the increase in wind generation. Did you realize that wholesale electricity went up 13% in March this year? All due to wind generation. So it would be safe to say that the development of wind energy is indeed a “tax”.
Small businesses are the life blood of our economy. Look at the article today in the papers. Obama turning to the Economy and Deficit the next couple of years. The Economy should have been the top priority for this admin. Instead he turned his back on the economy to push healthcare reform, in which 60-70 percent of Americans oppose.
Socialized society’s have never succeeded and what makes us think we’ll do anything different.
I am not in favor of what took place in the past administration (Bush spent like a drunken sailor). All I can say is that the last 20 years or so our Government has created this mess and the only thing we can do about correcting this disaster is to elect real Americans, not career politicians this November.
When our Government gets out of the way and creates the environment for small business to succeed is the only way to create wealth and prosperity for the Greatest Nation in the World.
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jeff, are you claiming that the $585 billion is before taxes or after, and what about the value of subsidies to these same already profitable corps. In fact, Obama has made the economy his priority and insuring that these companies stay profitableis key. The bailouts and stimulus money have both helped to avert another great depression and have allowed us to exit a fairly severe recession. Healthcare reform will reduce health care expenditures, I am not a fan of the Healthcare bill as I would have much preferred to go universal single payer, which is the most cost effective and yields the best results. Which brings me to: “Socialized society’s have never succeeded and what makes us think we’ll do anything different.” For starters, Finland and Sweden. Once again, though, I have to point out that a pure socialist country does not exist any more than a pure capitalist country. All of today’s successful economies include varying degrees of socialism and capitalism, some more one way, some less. certain parts of any economy do better under one form than the other: health care, education, fire protection, police, welfare are all arguably better off under a common ownership, they are like an insurance policy to tend to the nations well being. Agriculture, most manufacturing, retail and commercial enterprises, I think do better in the private sector, though even there the government hand to keep the playing field level is important. Your last line is just jingoism, so I’ll not comment.
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In your example of ‘things that work better under government control’, you list education and welfare – two items that have failed miserably under federal government control and fire and police – two items that are under LOCAL government control, not federal. Wanting healthcare to have the same fate as federal education and welfare programs does not give many of us the warm fuzzy fealing it does to you.
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How has education failed? Could it be better? Yes, but that the part conservatives don’t seem to get, they seem to think that any public money must produce instant results and refuse to come to grips with the fact that reducing expenditures does not generally improve the product. Welfare? What, are you going to suggest the society abandon one of its most important functions? Welfare helps move people to productivity, and it does work. Police and fire? I didn’t suggest that they were federal programs, nor did I suggest that local governments should be left out of the equation, they are in fact programs on the social side of economics and not the capitalist side. Furthermore all police and fire depts. I am aware of get significant federal funds. Show me how health care cannot improve if nationalized, name one industrialized nation that uses a capitalist health care system that works. Health care cannot help but be improved, even with the bare bones patch job that we have. The republicans kept us from having a better system than we got.
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A brilliant post jeff, followed by more Con Brio fairy tales.
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Is it just me or has anyone seen Rambo post one thing that sounds intelligent. Never any facts or figures just great one liners. He should run for office as a republican.
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Yes, I’ve seen Rambo come up with absolutely brilliant material regularly. I’ve seen what liberal do with facts and figures and it isn’t pretty. Here’s an illustration; Conservative says “The world is round.”, Liberal says “you idiot”.
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Well, there are times that if my grandkids talked like he does I’d have to slap ‘em upside the head. Remember, Rambo, the old “catch more flies with honey” thing.
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Feel free Grandma to slap Jonathan upside the head. He deserves it.
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Thanks Rambo,
Some people will just never get it. The individuals who pay them 50K per year are paying nearly 50% of every dollar earned to the Government. What they fail to realize is that the more they get pinched the less their salaries will be. Without a question in order for a business to make it they need to make money and show income. I have ran a small business. Some years were great and others were not so great. One thing I can tell you is that when you show a loss two consecutive years in a row, the banks freeze your line of credit and demand that you dump capitol into your business. Or you get “cut off”. It is impossible to operate a business without a line of credit (if you have employees).
Profit margins from businesses should never change. The more they are taxed the more they have to sell their goods and services for. So guy making 50K a year has his furnace break down the contractor will be selling his services for more money. So in essence if taxes are raised on those making 250K or more a year, they are being raised on everyone (Profit Margins Will Not Change Period). FYI the paperwork will indicate the heating contractor makes 250K per year, but he probably only takes home 50K in actual income. The rest is tied up in inventory and receivables from the dead beats who refuse to pay their bill, complain about how tough it is out there, while greedy corporations and businesses have screwed him over, while running up a $200 bar tab dumping an additional $100 in pull tabs.
Sorry for the last comment, but judging by the voting on this blog, not many understand what reality is. Government cannot help us. Stand up and fight for yourself and demand that the Government get’s out of the way.
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So jeff speaks Rambonian too, how convenient. And he has “ran a small business”, I hope it didn’t rely too much on communication. BTW are you still running that business? Based on the little that could be pieced together from jeff’s speech, first he needed a different banker, one who actually knew accounting and the legal requirements of business, and two “(Profit Margins Will Not Change Period).” begs for him to tell us what business he was in, what education he had, and whether he had an actual business plan. In his attempt to explain things he claims experience in, he offers such convolutions as to also question he knowledge in public policy as well. Thanks , jeff for more T bagger confusion.
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Con Brio. To answer your question. I sold my business a few months ago. I should correct one thing. Targeted Profit Margins Never Change. I wrote a business plan every year included with budgets and budget forecasts. I understand accounting and the legal requirements of operating a business. Not that it is any of your business but I have a business/accounting degree and I have taken several business law courses. By the way, I have never been to a tea party event nor do I support the tea party movement. Thanks for judging me though. My biggest problem is that I actually understand business to well and why Government involvment destroys economic growth and forces businesses to comply with rediculous Government policies. That’s why I sold my business and have no problem working for someone who has to comply with the political malcontents. When this economy turns around and if we can get the Government to get the heck out of the way. I will start another business. Until then I will continue to collect a paycheck and clock out at 5:00 every day.
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jeff, you sounded quite reasonable through half your statement,and I am willing to accept that you do have a business understanding, I am also happy to hear that you have not been taken in by the libertarianism of the T baggers. However, you lost me at: “Government involvment destroys economic growth and forces businesses to comply with rediculous Government policies.” (use spell check a little more often) Government does no such thing. People who are affected by various government regulations fail to ask the simple question: What is the reason for this regulation. Often times the answer is simple, sometimes very complex, but always a reason. I have operated, and continue to actively operate, small businesses. I too have been faced with regulatory”nonsense” and it is not always the result of Democratic meddling, just as often it is a Republican idea. Fact is, all competing businesses have to comply with the same regulations, so it’s a level playing field and not “the government is out to get me” or “the government want’s me to be unprofitable”. Perhaps you would like to discuss some particular regulation, I would be happy to, but not if you simply have a predisposition against government. Government’s role should be benign, I absolutely agree, but that is quite different from “nonexistent”. I serve on an national board that advises and assists small businesses on how to succeed, if we find a governmental policy onerous, we let congress know, but even when forced to follow seemingly questionable rules, we don’t simply condemn government, we help them understand, and we help our members cope.
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I liked the period at the end of your post best Con.The rest was just liberal drivel.
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you might have a ‘business’ degree, but you really don’t understand how the macro-economy works. An active government is a priori to a successful economy. Not a single country, anywhere, ever, has achieved prosperity without significant government intervention. Moreover, the government can and does run many ‘enterprises’ much more efficiently and effectively than the private sector: healthcare, defense, welfare, prisons, etc are all great examples of government intervention outperforming the private sector. The main problems for business are a bloated tax structure (eliminate deductions ffs) and bloated regulation. Ironically, business lobbying are largely responsible for both these problems.
Think of how much simply life would be for business with single payer. A huge portion of your business costs and effort would no longer be your problem. The healthcare system would work better and cheaper, too.
Without proper infrastructure investment, you can’t compete effectively (a poor transportation network, which america’s increasingly is, limits returns to scale and potential to compete in other markets). Instead, our infrastructure is collapsing from three decades of neglect. Bad roads lead to higher maintenance costs and longer travel times. An antiquated power system prevents new and more efficient energy sources being developed. Our airports are at and beyond capacity. Our railroads are at capacity. Our sewers are literally poisoning us. The world war I generation and their children built this country, the baby boomer’s let it rot. My generation gets to clean it up and rebuild (assuming the baby boomers let us, they will be voting for another 40 years)
Econometric studies show that the primary mover of economic growth over the last century has not be businesses accumulating capital, but the simple improvement of technology, through fundamental research. In the past, the overwhelming majority of this research was done by the government. Now in post-Reagan America, it is increasingly not done at all, and we have to settle for the minor funding from places like the Ford and Rockefeller and Gates foundations. Not only that, but an entire generation of intelligent people was wasted on manipulating financial markets instead of making things. Where will our future innovators come from? Odds are, they might not come at all.
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I read patiently on for your post to start making some sense. I got to the end but it was tedious.
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I figured three paragraphs might be a bit much for you.
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Of your posts, hell yes!
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At least Rambo’s posts are non-sensical and BRIEF.
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I would expect them to seem nonsensical to a no-mind liberal.Liberals like to write long posts to optimize the nausea inflicted.
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Oh, another liberal who prefers to be called a moderate. Hmm, I haven’t noticed that you’ve done anything but promote and defend liberalism. Let us see now, how would I know you’re a liberal?
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I’m not a liberal. Truthfully, I can’t stand people who always identify themselves as liberals.
Then again, I can’t stand conservatives either.
Y’all a big ole bunch of d-bags together as far as I’m concerned.
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I wonder how my post written after doofault users post got ahead of doofault and the time says 3 minutes earlier. I must have somehow predicted his next doofus reply.
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You know, when liberals drag out the relics at the last minute, they’re in trouble.
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Con
It is not a level playing field for all businesses. Have you ever heard of 8a contractin?s
We are all in this recession. I don’t think anyone can ignore the fact that it was Government policies which put us there. I don’t care if it was Repulican or Democrat, we are in this mess because of career politicians, so yes less government equals prosperity for all.
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Jeff, I am aware of section 8, apparently you were trying for federal contract work, always a mixed bag esp for small contractors. Such contracts are dicey because the feds rules can change quickly when there is political change..either way. It wasn’t government policies that provoked the recession but the lack of them that was a contributed; we needed better regulation of the financial industries. Less government just means less government, where would you remove regulation? Government has an interest in pushing the economy and benefits when industry is successful.
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I’d remove the regulation passed by Democrats that require banks to loan money to people that have no hope of paying it back which caused the financial collapse. To date I’m not aware of any move to repeal that provision by Democrats.
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There is no such regulation, show us. Another Rambonian fairy tale.
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Community Reinvestment Act.
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we are in a recession because there is no economic equilibrium in financial markets, and without regulation the financial industry goes through a series of speculative booms and busts. Seeing as the monetary supply is literally the lifeblood of the economy, these booms, and in particular the busts, have a habit of running the economy into the ground. I suppose this is governments fault of course, since the government failed to do the job that 600 years of experience tell us they must, which is to keep the financial industry under strict control, so that actually do the job of financing business and consumption, and not chasing speculative gains at other expense.
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The politicians like to have their finger in the pot. What makes you think that Congressmen and women are experts on finance or anything other than how to fool the public?
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they aren’t, at least not anymore. It’s the people who run the agency (Kennedy being a great example) that make it work.
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Ted Kennedy is dead, is he still in charge or is it another liberal with Kennedy’s current brain function.
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Nice debate Con. I can see we won’t agree on this issue, however I am proud of you for making it through that last post without taking another cheap shot at me. My last thought, just so I get it right. Is this how you feel Government should operate?
“If it moves, tax it”
“If it grows, regulate it”
“If it fails, Subsidize it”
Nice debate, I’m signing off allowing you the final word.
Best Regards,
Jeff
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We can agree to disagree, and thanks for a rational conversation.
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Yes, jeff was rational wasn’t he?
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if you don’t mind i’ll jump in here.
government should get its revenue in the least damaging way possible. In my mind, that means a vat, sales tax, and income tax. And income should include all income, which mean gifts, capital gains, dividends and inheritance, and the marginal rates on each (except inheritance and gifts, which are unearned, and should be taxed aggressively) should be the same.
Business and industry should be regulated when there are significant externalities.
Government should heavily intervene when there is a large market failure. See: defense, police, fire, healthcare, roads, education, etc. These could all be done in a free market situation, but the government (perhaps with the assistance of markets in many cases, lookup snow removal in chicago) can do them much, much better, markets often do a horrific job of allocating resources efficiently for public goods.
It’s my opinion that most of the bad things that people associate with government in america are the result of the american system of government, not government itself.
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What an incredibly stupid post. You can’t fool me. There are only two things that stupid, any liberal and Tarryl Clark. I wouldn’t be surprised if Stalin made that same final comment about the American system of government.
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the america system of government is, at present, and incoherent disaster. Not exactly a right or left observation, but a statement of fact, and an observation that people of both side have made repeatedly over the last decade or more. It’s time that both parties get together and call for a convention to address article #1.
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Because liberal no minds have made it so.
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Stalin undoubtedly knew more about American government than Rambo does, actually Rambo has clearly demonstrated absolute ignorance of every economic system.
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Con is well steeped in Marxism and actively promotes it.
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Probably some pot shops in California.
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My stars mgraalum. Inheritance and gift tax. Those who earned it have already been taxed on that. The death tax will end family farms as we know it. Double taxation is fair? Why should anyone be allowed to benefit off of the fruit of others labors? Why can’t I work my tail off, pay my share of realistic taxes, and pass my earnings to my children and my family. If I have already been taxed on my income, why would the government be entitled to take a second handful? This is the mentality which will be the ultimate demise of this country. It promotes laziness. I would have no motivation to become financially wealthy. Which is the American Dream. Unbeleivable.
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the people getting the gift haven’t been taxed on it and haven’t ‘earned’ it. why should they be allowed to gain from others effort? i anything promotes laziness, its the idea that ones birth should entitle one to wealth. This is not medieval europe.
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Excuse me, taxes were already paid on that wealth once…by the original owner. most income on farms is returned right tot he operation and used to pay bills, or buy capital equipment for the business.
I worked along side my parents on the farm for room and board. I did not receive a paycheck for my labor. My contribution allowed for the GROWTH of the family business. Had government left family farms alone, I may have considered taking on the business myself. However, facing the INSTANT DEBT incurred by the passing of the property, instantly put me into serious debt during a time when interest rates were around 20%.
Apparently, it’s quite OK for you to decide that I shall give up my inheritance that I actually contributed to, so you can feel justified in your contempt for people with any money at all.
IF you wanna make a tax buck off of easy street, put a trade tax on every share that is traded on WALL STREET. The only sweat equity going on there is breaking a bead, hurrying to make a quick buck off a quick trade before close for the day.
Investment income isn’t EARNED income…it’s the gravy skimmed off the top of the LABOR of everyone else. While the little guys are fighting to make the payments for all this debt, those without debt are cashing in and lovin’ it.
Of course, taxing investment income might mean cutting throats of the businesses who NEED to borrow to make a business improvement or start one. If it costs rich people money to INVEST…they aren’t going to be as free with their investment income, now will they?
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My tars Jeff: “The death tax will end family farms as we know it.” This is not true and you know it, in 2009, the estate tax exemption increased to $3.5 million. The Tax Policy Center projects that 14,900 estate tax returns will be filed for people who died in that year, of which only 5,500 will owe estate tax totaling about $13.8 billion. For 2010 there is no estate tax, but it does return in 2011. To claim “I would have no motivation to become financially wealthy.” is disingenuous, and I don’t believe it, Motivated people have always been motivated and have done so throughout the 90 plus years we have had an estate tax. If it was the disincentive you claim family farms would already be extinct. The sky isn’t falling, but make your move this year.
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Jeff, Great insight from a business owner. It is going on everywhere, business owners are shutting it down because of the gov’t picking winners and losers.
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The government already took their share. Now here is a possibility.
A small farmer who has 1000 acres of land and is valued at 2.5 Million. All debts are paid and he pay nearly 30K per y ear in property tax on the land. His son has worked side by side with him for 20 years. Dad passes away and hands the land to his son. The son now has a tax liability on 2.5 Million. He has a decision, go to a bank and mortgage the land to keep farming or sell the land to pay the tax liability. Chances are that he will be forced to sell.
Sounds fair
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Or the family that owns a fitness center in a city and the city commisioners decide to vote in a public fitness center, crushing the family’s business. Or a tanning tax, or NDSU putting a book store in downtown Fargo…picking winners and losers….
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WHO is he going to sell it to? The toothfairy? The only entities with the kind of cash/credit to BUY that property are corporate in nature. It can hardly can be considered a family farm anymore, can it?
AND woe to anyone that tries to make any profit…MN will just tax the crap out of them anyway, activists will picket their product, or production facilities or labor practices, or use the EPA to inflict new climate change regulations.
What a way to be progressive…stomp all over progress by taxing and regulating it to death.
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Anyone voting for Michele Bachmann really has the wool pulled over their eyes.
Everything that Bachmann has said that has been researched by PolitiFact has been False or Pants On Fire. Nothing that woman says is Truth.
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I listened to her debate on public radio yesterday and she blew the two idiots away with her common sense and intelligence.
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What local businesses do you own, Con?
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I can’t see and this wool is itchy! Vote for hope and change!!
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