Crowd gets raucous at Oberstar and Cravaack debate
October 19, 2010 at 6:18 am in Duluth News Tribune
Crowd gets raucous at Oberstar and Cravaack debate
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Wow! Sounds exciting! Too bad I couldn’t go because I have a JOB and was busy WORKING! btw….I’m glad to have the job, I’m just always amazed at how many people have time to go to these things in the middle of the morning on a workday!
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LOL! Preach’n to the choir. brother, preach’n to the choir. I’ve always wondered that too. These people that protest those big global meetings, you know, I’m thinking, “Dont they have JOBS?” No way could I have said”I”m taking off 2 weeks to protest (this or that)”.
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I have to agree with Dark Knight. The time that this debate was planned was poor. If they would have done this at 7pm, you bet your dollar that the DECC would have been packed. There is a lot riding on this election.
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I tried to listen on line but the sound was so poor I gave up after about 10 minutes.
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If you want a crowd that is civil, respectful, and truly interested in good debate – wait for the educated people to get done feeding their families and have the debate at night.
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I often wonder the same thing, but your comment made me think of how George Washington had to leave behind his farm to lead our colonial troops against the British. That was the major problem recruiting people to fight in the army at that time as well. Everyone knew that it would cost them a lot to leave their families, and their business, to go fight the Brits.
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Although I don’t agree with most of his opinions, I would have to give Congressman Oberstar credit. It was obvious from the beginning that most of the crowd was for Cravaack, but he held true to his convictions.
However… for the last time… Will the Democrats stop blaming Bush and will the Republicans stop saying what people want to hear?
I am so sick of hearing that the Republicans are going to both lower taxes and the deficit at the same time. IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!
Talk about tax reform! Talk about how you are going to both cut regulation and still preserve wildlife and the environment.
It is hard to do… but it can be done. Just don’t say “Smaller Government! Lower Taxes! Obamacare!”
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We can do better, we must do better, and we will start this moment today!
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I am glad this debate occured, although there were some disappointments. My first disappointment was that there were no time limits on the answers. It seemed to be very poor planning to expect that the debate would be balanced when the there were no time limits on how much time a candidate could use to respond. Another disappointment was that there was very little respect given to the candidates on either side when they were speaking, The man behind me was yelling and name calling every time Cravaak would open his mouth. It made it very difficult to hear any of his answers, as this guy was constantly saying people were stupid, learn how to read, and other things I won’t repeat. There was a woman that yelled from the crowd a derogatory remark and then yelled a racial remark at Cravaak. There was alot of disagreeing with Oberstar too, although from where I was sitting, the remarks I heard seemed to be more disagreement than the derogatory name calling that occured toward Cravaak. It would have been nice if both the debate forum and the crowd could have been a little more controlled as emotions were running high.
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Hell I remember Obama saying how taxes for someone in my income group wouldn’t go up. HA HA HA HA HA HA. Yeah….right. Sure glad my federal tax went up almost 10% effective January 1st, even though my income hadn’t.
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I too was at work but was disappointed that the live stream did not work from this site. It is to bad that their were no rules and directions to the crowd. Emotions are high because people feel Mr. Oberstar has thrown them under the bus with all his Obama liberal voting. Am I better off than I was 2 years ago?No, because of the increases coming in my health care according to the CBO’s numbers, possible cap and trade energy increases and stimulus money that I don’t see where it went. It sounds like a missed opportunity for voters to see through the smoke and mirrors.
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I just heard that Boeing announced they are raising the cost of their healthcare, as a result of the legislation.
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EVERYONE is raising the cost of their healthcare (or significantly reducing the quality of care). obamaCARE legislation can only mean higher costs for healthcare. And it can only mean worse healthcare. And Oberstar is so ready for retirement that he announces having pride in his vote for that legislation? Whatever. No Hope, but yes change please.
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Guess you missed the part of the story where Oberstar’s thugs yelled too,.
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It was almost refreshing to see a liberal get shouted down for a change. While I wanted for the debate to go well, I have a hard time blaming the people who responded with outrage when Oberstar started repeating the same tired lies that none of us are willing to accept any more.
Or, as the saying goes, “don’t whiz on me and tell me it’s raining”.
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Lois, Your insurance premiums keep going up because of INSURANCE COMPANIES! Read this mornings Startribune and see the 1.23 BILLIOn dollar PROFIT United Healthcare raked in for the last Quarter, NOT YEAR, Quarter. Insurance companies screw your doctors over and make it darn near impossible to get payment from the insurance companies. The CEO’s of the hospitals arent any better. Both of them put profit over healthcare each and every day. By no means do i think Obamacare is good but the only people standing in the way of healthcare are Insurance CEO”s and their lobbyists.
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>”Both of them put profit over healthcare each and every day”
Thats their job. They are a “For Profit” company. If you have ANY investments at all, youre probably more heavily invested in them than you know.
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And there is the problem. In order for an Insurance company to profit, it needs to take in more money than it gives out. The only way to increase profits is to then decrease the number of sick people you insure and increase the number of healthy people. Since too many American’s are lazy and stupid, we aren’t getting any healthier. So… we have 2 options… Get rid of for-profit insurance companies or stop insuring sick people. I am going to vote for the 2nd option… right up to the point where I get sick.
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Nurses should work for free?
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No, that is not the point David A, healthcare has a cost, it’s the profit that’s the problem. It’s charging $600 for an IV that costs probably under $50 with all the “costs” factored in – including paying the nurse who administered it. Or a $200 prescription that cost under a dollar to produce.
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I think a big part of the problem is lack of transparency of the actual costs of healthcare. We need to know – just like when we shop for groceries – what the costs of each procedure, each test, each consultation that we are offered. And yes, they are OFFERED, not forced on us. We also need to know the cost associated with providing healthcare for those who can’t or won’t pay for it (illegal aliens, the poor, etc.). Don’t let anyone tell you that people are denied healthcare, that’s a liberal LIE. You walk into the ER, you get treated; paying for it is figured out later (and another reason those of us who pay their bills end up getting charged $10 for an aspirin).
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The fraction of the health care economy that is represented by profits is so tiny you may as well round if off to zero. Health ins keeps going up because of
1. There are so many more expensive treatments available today.
2. Law suits and the threat of law suits.
3. Government mandated coverage keeps expanding.
4. Government required overhead is exploding.
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There has never been a government run program that was cheaper or better then the free market solution and there never will be.
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Katie, how can you say that?
****** market solution to hunger – starvation… *****
The free market feeds Americans better than any people in the history of the Earth.
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IF children are starving is isn’t because of a lack of government programs and money to feed them. If you know of starving children I hope you feed them.
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I honestly can’t understand what you are criticizing me for. Could you explain a bit more?
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Explain medicare then, Dave. You seem to forget that social security is still working pretty well, but most private retierement plans have been abandoned. How about unemployment insurance? Are private military contractors, cheapers, and superior to our army and marines? Think, Dave, Think!
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I like helping others. I just don’t like being coerced into it at the barrel of a Federal Marshal’s gun.
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Republicans claim to be the Christian party. Gods commands to help the poor. Why don’t they then?
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Lindsey, where do you get the idea that Conservatives DON’T help the poor? Where do you get the idea that government ARE helping the poor when, as Katie claims, tens of thousands of children are hungry, despite $TRILLIONS spent on the problem over the years.
We are victims of a terrible bait and switch scam. Politicians told us send your money to us and we will take care of the poor. Well we fulfilled our end of the deal. They have failed miserably on their end.
Time to start looking at different models. Outsourcing the care of the poor to bureaucrats isn’t working.
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David, if so many were helping the poor I don’t see it. I see very rich Christians and starving children in our own country. I hear more Christians critizing the poor than helping the poor. But you are correct….I have seen the most horrendous cutbacks in Minnesota under the rule of the governor. I just cannot understand why the poor and mentally chanllenged are the victims of Minnesota’s current deficit. It just blows my mind that he can do such a heinous act.
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The answers that follow demonstrate the ignorance of many liberals about Christian conduct. Yes, we’re to feed to poor, etc. Many of us do, either by donating to charities, churches, foodshelfs or the like. We don’t shout it from the rooftops; if you had bothered to study (and understand) the Bible, you might understand why we don’t advertise the fact.
Because we also have to pay government taxes (in-part to do what we’re also trying to do through the charities, provide for the welfare of our fellow citizens), we can’t donate as much to the charities, because we also have to pay the salaries of all the public employees who administer these govt. programs (again, this is a duplication of the various non-profits, many of whom utilize VOLUNTEERS (they don’t require payment the way public employees do).
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Lets not forget the rigorous, and expensive process of FDA approval. Katie, you talk of an IV that ‘costs $50′. Perhaps it would seem that production of a drug would not be an expensive thing to do, make the pill, put it in a bottle, simple right?
There is a lot more to it than that. Canadians get to pay the lower costs associated with that part of the process. We get to pay for the years of research, and quality assurance that is behind the FDA regulatory process. If you think that it is cheap to do research on these drugs, I encourage you to take part in the research. Go down to PRACS and you can see how much it costs.
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Siouxforever, I looked at PRACS as you suggested and found no “costs”. Yes, new drugs take time and FDA approval. But how much really does a sodium and water mixture (basic IV) cost? Something that many people in hospitals receive to keep hydrated everyday? Do you really think it’s total cost is $600? I say this figure because that’s how much mine cost recently. Of course my insurance covered the majority but I am lucky to have good coverage.
And when does it become a social necessity that government pay for this research? For the good of all people in our country? PRACS, as you directed me to was a private research company – smells like there is a large profit to be made that is taken from the people who use these products they study.
Health care is a right not a privilege – that’s why hospitals have a no turn away policy if you can’t pay for services. Let’s start practicing what we preach.
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Wow, you completely misunderstand how our economy works. I don’t have time to give you a micro and macro economics lesson today, sorry.
There are other reasons for the high prices Katie, but the primary reason is research required by the FDA process. The ‘costs’ at Pracs IS Pracs. The reason you pay $8 for a trash bag, is because hospitals must make up costs from all the welfare cases they get.
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The profits will always be maximized. Gov’t intervention is a cost of doing business. As a business owner I did not willingly reduce profits when told I had to match the social security contribution or carry workman’s compensation insurance. I sucked it up, bent over and paid the government when I lawfully had to. But I also raised my prices because my costs had changed. Taxes are a cost of doing business, it’s factored in, and the consumers will always be the losers. There is not a single thriving single-payer system in the world. All of them are inferior to traditional the traditional US healthcare model and yet we still want to join their failing club. What is our problem?
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Jason, Figures lie and liars figure. Your intentional misrepresentation of the insurance industry profits failed to report that the industry earned less than a 3% return on investment for the last decade, a decade that saw dramatic returns for investors in the market as a whole. But then again, I suspect that you already knew this. And if you didn’t know this, why, and why are you posting to the contrary? Are you used to posting while in possession of part of the information? Uh, hello? YES!
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United Healthcare’s net profit margin for Q3 2010 was 5.4%. Just to compare:
> Over the past year the profit margin for health insurance companies was 3.4 percent, according to data fromy Morningstar, a company that rates mutual funds.
>The health plan industry ranks 87th out of 215 industries in terms of net profit.
>The most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin.
>Second has been healthcare real-estate trusts (firms that are basically the landlords for hospitals and healthcare facilities) and application-software (think Windows).
>The average for the oil and gas industry overall was 10.2 percent, three times the margin in the health insurance industry.
>And that’s nothing compared with high-fliers like Google—which had a 20.6 percent margin—and Microsoft, at 24.9 percent.
I think introducing price transparency and competition to hospitals and providers could lower costs, and then premiums. If hospitals advertised the price of, say, an MRI the way providers advertise Lasik eye surgery, prices could drop, as they have with Lasik.
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The Nerd is right on with his last statement. Imagine going into Best Buy telling them you are in need of a device in order to watch NFL football in HD. They say… “Okay, come back in 3 weeks and we will have your device ready for you”. They do not tell you how much it is going to cost, how good of a product it is or how much upkeep it is going to take to maintain your new device.
People would go CRAZY!
However, they do not go crazy when hospitals do this exact thing.
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Good call. Hospitals should put up a friggin menu. People would go nuts if they had to buy a car and get the bill later, or if they had their car worked on at a shop without being quoted a price. Sure, I think we all agree that the garage puts you in a place when your car needs a fixin, but at least they tell you how much they’re going to charge you before you go. Go to the Doc on the other hand and you have to budget for something you have no idea about on the costs.
THIS IS the kind of healthcare reform we need – what obamaCARE suggests is far from this and will not help anyone.
obamaCARE does not make anyone accountable for their health and the goverment layers are only going to make care more expensive for all of us. It’s also going to provide care for the deadbeats of society. We already provide a humane level of care for the deadbeats (oh, sorry, that’s a mean term) and less fortunate and we’re already paying the bill for that. That should be good enough.
NOW, we’re really going to subscribe to a program that provides care for all – INCLUDING ILLEGAL ALIENS. It also can’t deny care for pre-existing conditions.
THIS IS AKIN to crashing your car, and then making the insurance company cover you after the fact. The responsible policy holders pay and the irresponsible ones are taken care of. The only incentive here is to be lazy and irresponsible. This is not the message we ought to be sending to anyone.
So yes, reform is needed – but not the kind of reform we’re getting. Start small and let the counties and states solve their own problems.
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Most of the tea partiers who have money have left the state. Expect the rest of them to go if Dayton wins.
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>”less government just means more space for uncontrolled corporate power to run roughshod over we the people.”
Joseph Stalin – 1951
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Why, after a lifetime of being fleeced by the government for taxes WOULDN’T a Senior take what they can get regardless of their income or savings?
Also, regarding others’ previous posts on people “starving” in the U.S. I call B.S. There are no starving people in our country. There are tons of programs to cover this. If they spend (or sell) their government food money on (for) booze, drugs and cigs, that is NOT anyone’s problem other than their own. BTW, have you SEEN photos of the ghetto dwellers on welfare? Fat, lazy, drunk, smoking cigarettes (expensive) and referring to their welfare and food stamps as their “right” and “paychecks.” Ughhhhhhh.
I think that the reason we have many stealing from the system is lack of accountability. Back before “welfare”, the Churches took care of the poor. By “took care” I mean they gave them help and fully expected those that were able-bodied to find work and support themselves in time. Those that were drug addicts or alcoholics were expected to clean up and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Peer pressure works. Obviously, people that can’t fend for themselves (crippled, retarded, etc…) should be taken care of permanently but they are a small percentage of people receiving government assistance.
I think we need to go back to accountability and community. Stop taxing the good, clean, hardworking citizens to death and make the leaches of the “system” fend for themselves. Enough is enough.
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How nice. Now youre the first suspect if someone gets hurt or killed, and the DNT has all the info on you (those pesky little IP addresses.)
Now, the question is, since you made the threat, does the DNT have an obligation to warn the Police?
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That’s what thugs do.
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Youngs79, How many whole days has Jimbo spent in the district over his tenure? I suspect that since 2004, Cravaack’s number of days spent in the district has exceeded all the time Jimbo has spent during the past 4 decades.
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As someone who’s lived in the 8th CD most of my life (since the 60s, except for about 7 yrs in the 80s), the only time I hear about Oberstar visiting the 8th is _after_ he’s gone back to the Beltway – - the whole reason Cravaack is running is that Sir James is consistently too busy to meet with us, and when he deigns to respond to our calls and letters (usually months after we contact his office), he generally doesn’t address the issue, he just tells us what he wants to say. The one time I was actually able to address him on an issue (~15 years ago), he gave me an answer that betrayed him as a politician whose only real conviction was the his own political future. I have not more time for this out-of-touch elitist.
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If Chip Cravaak is a carpetbagger then so is Al Franken,and Hillary Clinton . A blogger who live blogged the debate said the crowd was loud and interupting but the Oberstar people were derrogatory and name calling to Cravaak. Youngs79 were you there? This was Mr. Oberstar’s townhall meeting which he refused to have last summer and this past summer. I am not surprised by the people’s response. He has ignored everyone for years. He won’t be head of transportation because the Dems will lose control. I am glad your solution for people who interupt is to kick them in the a…? Oberstar supporters coming unglued…the winds of change are upon us. Go Chip.
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Now you know the depth of the anger. Righteous anger I might add. Not a good year to an incumbent, and responsible for the disaster case this country has become.
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Sorry but, anger…no matter how rightous, is just no excuse for a lack of civility in a public forum.
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Sorry. Get used to it. I expect civil society to start breaking down as this country descends into third world status.
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I think you may be right. To me, that’s really sad and more than a little scary.
Normally, as a society matures, it becomes more civilized but, we seem to be going backward.
I think, once we accepted things like road rage as some kind of defensible behavior, the hand writing was on the wall.
I wonder if I’ll live long enough to see a shoot-out at high noon on main street.
Sure seems to me like some in this country are bound an determined to take us back to our wild west days.
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Then why do liberal extremists keep getting away with it? Clearly a double-standard is in-play here. And that guarantees that we have little common ground to work with. Shut-up the liberal mob, and the conservatives will generally take care of themselves.
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I was there and I think there was a majority of Cravaack supporters in the crowd, and the jeering and heckling from his supporters was worse than anything the Oberstar supporters did or said. I didn’t hear any name calling towards Cravaack, though I did hear people calling Obersar a “Liar” several times.
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Gabrielle,
I was sititng with a majority of Oberstar supporters. Believe me, the name calling was on both sides and some of it was much, much worse than liar. I couldn’t hear half of what was said because of the man behind me calling names continuously and the woman on the back left side yelling out derogatory comments continuously. I don’t see how you could not have heard it unless you were sitting on the front right side. Why don’t we just condemn ALL the name calling. This was a terrible example for the high school kids that were there.
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They called Oberstar a liar? Well, if the shoe fits………………
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The guy who started the whatever it was got the crowd fire up and it was “bar the doors” after that
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This really saddens me. I always thought we were better than this kind of behavior.
I’m pretty sure all of our parents taught us better manners than were displayed today.
And I really don’t care how angry you are about something…you can still exercise a little self-control or personal restraint.
Well, if you are an adult you should be able to anyway.
I seriously hope that debate doesn’t get televised nationally. How embarrassing for Minnesota.
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This is what happens when you dont listen you your constituants.
I’d say, a lot of people on the Cravaack side used to be Oberstar supporters.
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Katydid – I’ve actually voted for Oberstar in the past, but not this time. You mention that Jim is “a little left of center”, but the problem is he aligned himself with the FAR LEFT especially with health care without LISTENING to what the people in his district wanted. Instead he acted like a yes man to the Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. Most people I talked with think the health care bill was a very bad bill, and many (such as myself) feel like the Democrats abused their power and shoved it down our throats without even listening to what people wanted.
So as for Oberstar getting my vote…not this time. I like what Cravaack has said and what he stands for. He has campaigned hard and has taken this race seriously (unlike a lot of previous Republican challengers). I appreciate Mr. Cravaack’s stances, demenor, and overall message….it’s time for change…I have some hope.
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Given the whole tone of your response, I guess I’m puzzled as to why you would have ever voted for Oberstar.
As for the health care bill, there’s plenty of people in the area that not only wanted it but, wanted it to go much further than it actually did in the end.
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Perhaps George Washington should have been embarrassed for his slight to the British as well. Sometimes it takes more than polite discourse.
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I would have liked to attend, but working was my priority. My voice will be heard come voting time. I do have to say for whatever it’s worth – Congressman Oberstar should have been in the public a bit more, listening to his now angry DFL partiers and what they have on their minds. Seems like BOTH SIDES are embroiled with our economy, healthcare, jobs, joblessness, etc. that the mouths runneth over at the slightest chance. Cravaack adds the spark that many people need to light a fire under their pants and get them to see Oberstar and his empty promises in real light. In fact,Oberstar has been dangling a group of steelworkers (bankrupt National Steel, Employees and their PBGC pensions) for months!! These employees got ripped and Oberstar SHOULD have gotten on this much quicker to get their monthly checks coming to all of them (that would be a good start)! Cap and trade – carbon credits, Obama health care, geez Jim – let’s be reasonable and start helping the people here in Minnesota get something going! If you can’t get it done – then let Cravaack give it a try – after all what do any of us really have to lose if we’re having this much trouble already – seems your plans are being met with anger, frustrating, shouting and name calling. I guess that’s why you choose not to live in mom’s house on the Range – ah, no place like home?
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It appears that the DECC needs a stimulus grant to update the sound system in the auditorium.
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There are reasons why there are rules in public forums.
This site’s rules:
1. Keep it civil and stay on topic.
2. No profanity, vulgarity, racial slurs, or personal attacks.
3. People who harass others or joke about tragedies will be blocked.
Seems like this debate would have gotten a lot of people banned for bad behavior. Same should be done at public debates.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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The other way to look at this is that people are engaged and passionate about the election. How many election years have we read the old lecture from the DNT aabout voter pathy?
No apathy this year. That’s a good thing in my mind.
I don’t condone boorish behavior but I certainly understand it. And it’s better than having a 3/4 empty auditorium with half the audience snoring.
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And how many year has it been since Jimmy O has had some real competition. Jimmy has been in office far far too long.
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CK, I was sitting on the left side of the stage, around the center. The sound system did stink, and I couldn’t make out all that people were yelling. I just noticed more yelling when Oberstar was trying to speak than Cravaack.
And I do agree — doesn’t matter which side was doing it, anyone doing it should have been condemned. That kind of behavior is uncalled for.
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I have asked this question on various outlets, but not on here. My question is toward all the Oberstar supporters. Besides the obvious (health care bill, and what you see in the TV commercials), what has Oberstar really done in the 40 years he has spent in DC?
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Quote, “2. Over the last 40 years, Oberstar has become one of the most powerful congressmen in the country, serving as the Chairman of one of the most powerful committed in congress, the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure. Having worked up to such a rare place of power in congress, he is able to effectively help Norther Minnesota with jobs and infrastructure. So, that is one really amazing thing Oberstar has done, and few others will ever be able to do.” Close Quote
So, with all the blame that was tossed at Tim Pawlenty for the I-35 bridge collapse, equal, or possibly more blame should be pointed at Jim Oberstar, you know, since he is chair of the Transportation and Infrastructure?
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Rep. Oberstar, as chair and head of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, is one of the strongest advocates for increased focus on and funding for our crumbling infrastructure. It has been politically unpopular, however, to fix old bridges and water-lines, since it has not been a politically popular project that excites voters (unless there is a dramatic failure of some infrastructure, as was the case for the I-35 bridge). But Oberstar has fought for infrastructure funding despite its upopularity! Pawlenty has essentially vetoed many infrastructure projects, since there are costly and unpopular. However, this is not to say that Pawlenty is to blame for a particular infrastructure failure, just because he generally has opposed infrastructure spending.
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Don’t be a fool. You’re asking for an apples to apples comparison where this isn’t on (we call that a “straw-man”). Cravaack has 28 years in-uniform for the US Navy and Reserve, plus a career as a commercial pilot (and union steward, something that he is rather proud of, but that many liberal news sources seem to forget to publicize).
Oberstar’s technical expertise isn’t the issue; it’s his failure to perform his job description (key word, “Representative”) for too long.
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Let’s all take a deep breath and relax.
On the humorous side, the poor sound system and no time limits for responses were George Bush’s fault.
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Pat Pat wake up a smell the roses and stop drinking the cool aid
The congressman will not tell the public were he will be any time this was the only time the public knew where he would be. That’s why people were madand rigthfully so.
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Amen to that. I hear about it after he leaves.
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Its truly sad to see people both Democrat and republican acting like buffoons instead of respectfully listening to the issues and making the right choice.
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throw out all the bums !!! neither Dems or Repubs are any good !!! problem is Oberczar will still be sucking off the tax dollars with his retirement.
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Actually, some friends who used to live in MN have a lot of nice things to say about Mississippi (even compared to MN). And my adult son (who likes to travel, and has visited most of the Slavic countries) thinks they’re wonderful places.
Poor Sam, he’s sounding so Euro-centrically prejudiced. Too bad he couldn’t mention places like South Dakota or Costa Rica where taxes are low and living conditions are entirely fine.
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It sounds as if much of the crowd failed to learn parental lessons of civility when they were younger. Boorish behavior on many parts!!
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This is a video at the beginning of the debate this morning. The tone was set when Oberstar refused to shake Cravaacks hand. Both praised each other for their respective service later in the debate, but too much disruption had occured.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmrllKx7ynE
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That video doesn’t show Oberstar refusing to shake hands at all! The video is equal proof that Cravaack refused to shake Oberstar’s hand. (As a matter of fact, neither refused to shake hands.)
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Sam, please tell the truth – - too many people SAW what actually happened and there’s no way what you say above is true. The video merely verifies it for those who couldn’t be there (because they had to hold down jobs and pay taxes for all the non-working folk who were at the event).
I was there, and watched the actual event. AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DEBATE, Cravaack went over, offered his hand, and was refused. Oberstar was “too busy” pouring his water. Kind of like when he was “too busy” to meet with his constituents.
It was a continuation of contemptuous behavior by Oberstar for anyone who challenges him. My wife and I saw Cravaack approach him on another occasion (unfortunately, no cameras captured it), and Oberstar quite rudely blew him off.
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Well, I watched the video several times over and I honestly didn’t see anything like an offer of a handshake or one refused.
I saw Oberstar sitting down and pouring water, someone saying something to him and then someone sitting down on his other side.
Can you clarify at what point he refused a handshake?
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Cravaack came to him – that’s Cravaack’s left hand reaching out to Oberstar’s shoulder. Oberstar refused to make eye-contact. Not the first time that I or my family has seen him do this. A deliberate refusal to acknowledge Cravaack’s presence. And people think the audience started the boorish behavior.
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Nonsense. It was clearly a snub and not played very well. He couldn’t wait five seconds to fill his glass with water? Cravaack had been introduced already, so Oberstar knew he was there and working his way down the line shaking hands (as people with class do) with the others on stage. When he got to Oberstar, the congressman suddenly decided he was thirsty and wouldn’t even look Cravaack in the eye. Not very classy.
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I’m glad to see this behavior. People are finally fed up with career politicians, spending, horrible programs, waste, taxing or the status quo.
No wonder James has been ducking his challenger. He had his lunch handed to him by the citizens he represents. Who would have thought that day would come?
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Disagreeing and being boorish and disrepectful are two different things. Show disaproval in the quiet of the voting booth.
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AMEN!!!
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Sounds like you regard boorish behavior and free speech as indistinguishable. Free speech isn’t always polite, but neither is criticizing the exercise of free speech.
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Of course Cravaack’s supporters started it. These Tea Party soccer hooligans always start it. Angry old white well-to-do people furious they’re not in complete control anymore and inching ever closer into the sunset. I’m sick of this talk of the ‘polorization of the country’ like it’s equal on all sides and there’s no fault to assign. These public displays are the fault of these right-wing extremists who always were this insane but only recently have begun to feel safe enough to let it out because there are enough of their ilk acting insane around them and on cable news. We need to call it lunacy when we see it and purge it from our national discourse, or it’s only going to escalate.
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Totally agree.
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And I suppose libtards weren’t acting even more insane for eight solid years during the Bush presidency? Or doesn’t that count?
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No. The “well they did it first/too” just is not an acceptable defense for anything….from anyone.
Most parents already know that.
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And most parents also tell you to practice what you preach. If your kid treats everyone like garbage and all of the sudden people don’t like him, are you really going to wonder why? Or maybe you’ll suggest to him that he should have been nicer in the first place because what goes around comes around.
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No, they weren’t acting insane. This is unprecedented in modern American politics, including the anti-war activism of the 60s. I suppose for me it’s the bankruptcy of it, the empty almost nihilistic spirit behind this Tea Party faux outrage. It isn’t FOR anything noble, it’s for a class of aging, perfectly comfortable Americans to get their petty way. The final act of the Me generation kicking and screaming because they don’t get every little thing they want. ‘It’s the end of life as we know it because the corporate tax is 39% instead of 36%!!!’
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It is not unprecedented. Were you sleeping during the entire Bush presidency or what? Or do you just have a selective and short memory?
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I remember it perfectly. I remember how I felt and how I conducted my own behavior, and how others conducted theirs. Display of outrage isn’t wrong in and of itself, if it’s coming from a place of basic decency. Not every one fit that description of course, but the overall mood of the country was still one of basic decency. Since then, right-wing extremists seeking to co-opt such genuine outrage at government abuse now use it for their own cynical purposes (‘We’re freedom fighters taking our country back! For, um er, ordinary citizens to shoulder the tax burden of billionaires!! And, er um, giant banks to get government off its back so it can drive the economy into the toilet again!! It’s like we’re just like real protesters only we’re protesting FOR bad stuff!) It’s insane because of how empty and cynical it is, on top of how intense and bizarre these people are.
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I do remember though that more often than not when some Republican lawmaker or a member of the Bush White House ventured out in public at all, they made sure to keep any and all opposition so far away by force as to render it mute. Ironic that the right-wingers who now cry tyranny had their mouths sewn shut then, and their opposition to the status quo now is allowed to be made the very centerpiece of national election debates, both in person and by the ‘liberal’ media.
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I see. So when it was left-wing extremists acting in a much, much more vitriolic and disgusting way than what we saw yesterday, they were “coming from a place of basic decency?” And they were the majority of people causing trouble during the Bush presidency, not the exception, and you know it. Liberal extremists just don’t want to be reminded of their own actions now.
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Right. Liberals wanting their country to abide by habeas corpus and the separation of powers- real out of the mainstream extremists. As opposed to today’s Tea Party extremist on the verge of armed secession….
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That’s what I thought.
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LOL, so we’re in agreement then! See at some point the right-winger’s thought process always breaks down. When you logically work their arguments backwards at some point there ceases to be any reason other than ‘because I say so’. It’s a necessary byproduct of their fundamentalism, their faith in their certitude rather than reason.
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No, Einstein, we’re not in agreement. I’ll finish my thought, which I wasn’t going to do, and say I see that the liberal double standard is alive and well.
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If you are mad about some signs popping up around here, you haven’t seen the amount of signs that are on every corner in the cities.
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LOL…well if people in the cities are supporting him, that’s probably one more reason not to.
Rarely do the people in the cities of the best interests of northern MN in mind.
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What sign, where? I know several people who put up signs for the Cravaack campaign, they all make it point to have permission first. I’m sure the Cravaack campaign would like to know specifics so they can properly remove the offending sign and coach the person who made mistake (if indeed that’s what happend and this isn’t a made-up incident – - yes, I’ve seen that happen too).
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Sam, respectfully, I was there and witnessed Mr. Oberstar’s refusal to shake hands. I believe the overwhelming thunderous welcome from Mr. Cravaack’s supporters surprised all, including Mr. Oberstar who appeared very shocked and frustrated.
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And to think I actually wasted a good mouse click to see what you had written because your comment was hidden due to low rating. I see why now.
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Not mad because of the amount of signs around, but it would have been nice if someone had ASKED OUR PERMISSION, before planting a large sign on the shoulder of a busy highway, on land well marked “NO Trespassing”, wouldn’t it? Is there no respect for individual property owners anymore? Isn’t that what Cravaack’s supporters are for? And yet one of them, or maaybe a few, felt it was okay to infringe on our right as property owners to have a sign we chose, not one they just planted on us. And that is why we are “mad”. Thank you.
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Marikay, really?
I like how open minded you are to CHANGE. Saying a candidate blew it because someone put up a yard sign for him is very odd. I’m sure that there are no oberstar signs put up without permission, right.
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Marikay, as I stated in response to your earlier comment, I know several people who respond to sign requests for the Cravaack campaign; they all understand they need to have permission first. I’m sure the Cravaack campaign would like to know specifics so they can properly remove the offending sign and coach the person who made mistake (if indeed that’s what happened and this isn’t a made-up incident – - yes, I’ve seen that happen too, so with all respect, I’m suspicious).
For that matter, how do you know this sign wasn’t stolen and placed there to cause a problem? The campaign has had a lot of signs either damaged, destroyed or “disappeared” over the last several months, as well as some supporters (e.g. union members) being intimidated into removing them.
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Its starting to look like Jimmy’s run may be over.
Oh well 36 years is long enough for anyone.
Take the millions in your war chest and go be a lobbyist Jimmy.
You could probably work for one of the wind generator companies, and get them billions of our money.
You told me that for the price of a postage stamp a day we could have wind power.
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