Mid-flight mix-up
October 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm in Grand Forks Herald
Diverted flight concerns focused on UND Saudi studentsTurns out, it was three UND students newly arrived from Saudi Arabia who caused suspicions on a Minneapolis-Grand Forks commuter jet Sunday, leading to a diverted landing to Fargo and a bomb scare of sorts.
Turns out it was a big mix-up.
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Good Job by the flight crew; I’ld be suspicious too. Now lets see what the P.C. crowd has to say about this article.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Why are you so afraid? Of what would you have been suspicious?
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Now, are they learning landings too?
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Just because people were physically distant from it doesn’t mean that we didn’t know people that died during the attacks.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I felt affected when the dude flew his plane into the IRS building in Texas. Should we all fear white, middle-aged pilots any time we’re around a government building?
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Hmmm well our county building down town gets bomb threats all the time, so maybe we should…
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I was at Andrews AFB when the Pentagon was attacked.
How much more distant does one need to be to feel threatened? If i stomp on your foot why does your mouth yell? are they not quite a distance apart? Terrorists attacked our nation and we all felt the attack. I apologize to no one for be skeptical of every person who looks like they are from the middle east. A better question would be why can they not learn English in their own country? My kids have the option of learning several languages in school. Are there no pilot training schools in other countries? We just keep on setting ourselves up by pretending that it will not ever happen again and giving these people the full access they had before.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Agreed. I too keep a vigilant eye on the Middle Easterners here on campus. The ones I have seen so far have been walking around carrying large duffel bags and looking around suspiciously. If you don’t find that a cause for concern, so be it, but don’t be surprised if some day something happens.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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They carry duffel bags because all aviation students do and they look around a lot because they’re afraid of people like you.
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StormChaser – Congratulations on being the most ignorant person in North Dakota. With comments about people’s ethnicity and how they “look” different at you, I can’t imagine you will make it anywhere but North Dakota.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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She has a degree, Scott. She’s way smarter than you. She knows everything about copy-pasting storm reports from the NWS, formation-flying, and traffic laws. And she’s going to be much better off when she gets to California because everybody out there is smart, too, and they all obey the laws, and there are no brown people of whom to be suspicious. So… back off, man.
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Yes. I have a degree.
Just saying, if you are walking around campus keeping a special vigilant eye on middle easterners, you’re wasting your time. I can’t imagine how you would handle New York, LA, London, etc, real cities with diversity.
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Good one, Stormchaser – you got me, I’m scared of the Herald.
I guess that’s the difference between you and me: I expect the untrained Herald staff to report all sorts of interesting tibits about stormchasing and the tornadoes they’ve chased and never post any facts and information.
For that, I’ll go to a blog about storm chasing.
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Thanks for the prophecy, Scott! I’m sure that living in Grand Forks has exposed you to a very diverse group of people. You should be proud of your cosmopolitan upbringing. Shall we have lunch in Paris today?
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@Charlie Why don’t you buy a six pack of Keystone and some Basics and head back to the trailer courts? We’re trying to have an intelligent discussion here. Much appreciated.
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Stormchaser – you dish out a lot of paranoia and go around telling people to shut up (even going as far as swearing at them in personal messages) , but you can’t take it when you’re called to back any of it up. Instead, you revert to name-calling and histrionics.
You continually post nonsense on a public forum and expect everybody to see things your way. No “stalking” necessary, everything here is out in the open. You’re not contributing in a reasonable manner and I’m calling you on it. If you can’t handle being called on it, then don’t posit garbage… or swear at me and go cry to a moderator.
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What’s wrong with Keystone Light??
Bottom of the same barrel as Coors Light!
Pass me another!
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Nice, Captain – from all my posts on areavoices you’ve figured out that I live in a trailer park, drink Keystone light and (smoke?) Extras.
Bra-vo
Do Scott next!
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Stormchaser – it’s really quite simple: You, partaking in your right to free speech, post nonsense.
I, in turn partaking in my right to free speech, call you on your nonsense. And it was germane to the topic until you started telling people they aren’t smart, to STFU, and swearing at me and implying I’m a homosexual via PM.
You may have the right to free speech, but that right doesn’t grant your vapid comments immunity from scrutiny. You act as if you are a tyrant, throwing a fit when you don’t get your way and resorting to lowbrow debate.
The fact is, you don’t have control of the conversation here – stop acting as if you do.
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Actually Captain, living in Grand Forks for a few years now has taught me diversity. I’m from somewhere different, so coming here showed me what people are like in this part of the country.
Not saying somewhere different is better, just saying that if people decide to sit in North Dakota all their life and vocalize how they feel about other cultures and people (which they have every right to do), then their opinion doesn’t have as much value as someone who has travelled and seen other cultures. Obviously because they haven’t seen it or experienced it for themselves.
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@Charlie: Lighten up, Francis…
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Charlie, I NEVER called you a homosexual. Quit making stuff up to make me look bad.
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Scott, that is like poetry. I too am not from around here.
Charlie, I don’t know whether you are a male or female so assuming that I am calling you a homosexual is a pretty big leap there don’t ya think? You should probably go sit down and pop another Xanex before you have a nervous breakdown.
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Stormchaser,
I received an email direct from areavoices (therefore part of their archive) of a personal message you sent me (and since deleted) that said “you’ll be the one doing Scott next.”
I’ve got the evidence if I need it.
You are lying through your teeth and are really something else. I can not believe you are allowed to continue posting in this manner.
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“I can not believe you are allowed to continue posting in this manner.”
Get a life. Your opinion ends at the story, not with whether another commenter should be “allowed” to post comments as they see fit.
Find a hobby, pal. This one isn’t doing good for you.
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Hey, there, default – I’m certainly allowed to express my opinion and defend myself. For someone so disinterested in what I have to say, you seem so interested in what I have to say.
But I won’t sit here and let someone make up stories about what I am saying when they are lying about it. I think that’s reasonable.
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Charlie, if this were a pub and we were sitting on adjacent bar stools, you may have a point.
I just don’t see the purpose of “defending” one’s self on a comment section.
Maybe my comment was too strongly worded, and if so, I apologize.
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Default – beer sounds good. I’d buy. No harm.
I, too, take it a little too seriously sometimes, but I think reasoned debate is needed, not paranoia, and call me a lancer or whatever, but I just can’t let BS go by. To quote XKCD, “Someone is wrong on the internet!” lulz
Stormchaser – there you go again. You can’t expect to say one thing to me in a PM and then turn around and play the nice bit. You’re getting called on it and your reactions are getting laughable.
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Charlie, enough already! I told you already to leave me alone and you just can’t seem to do that now can you?
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Ah yes, Ill drink to that
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All right now, kids.
I’ll buy the first round of shots and let’s all kick back and share “most embarrassing moment” stories.
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I’ll jump right in and admit that I got too riled up about it, and I’m sorry to anyone I offended.
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Oh come on now, Scott.
Maybe you just need to pull up a bar stool and have a cocktail and think about this for a minute, and we’ll all calm down and have a good laugh about how riled up we got. Whaddya say?
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I know sometimes I take people’s comments too seriously or too personally, when a lot of the time people’s opinions get magnified into larger life scenarios than they had intended in the first place.
In the end, don’t we all consider ourselves good people, wanting safe communities for our kids, freedom to do as we safely and responsibly please, and the opportunity to prosper?
(insert happy feel good here)
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Capt A, You should write a letter to UND Department of Aviation demanding they stop marketing their program overseas because of your paranoid. Im actually no more scared of a terrorist attack than I am of the sky falling out from above us. I could care less if you were holding the Presidents hand during the 911 attacks, I’m not impressed.
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I never asked yu to be impressed. I also never asked you to give a ratz rear end about terrorism. I however have seen first hand the carnage that television just doesnt quite capture and i have spent the better part of the last ten years in the middle east fighting this crap. I may just happen to have a bit more motive for being vigilant than you. When you experience an attack first hand, let me know then how quick you are to dismiss everyone who looks like the group carrying out the attacks. and just remember, the families of the hijackers were stunned that their family was involved, thats how nice and quiet these sleeper cells operate. I spent the vast majority of my life not paying any attention to people from the middle east because they were no different from me in my mind. That all changed on 9/11. BTW, you never did answer the simple question of why someone who can barely speak english is here to learn english and piloting skills. dont you think maybe they should learn the english a bit before they attempt to become pilots? 30,000 feet is a heck of a place to be when you realize your english isnt up to par and ATC is issuing you warnings. I’ll sit back and allow you to be led like a sheep to the slaughter, you can sit back and allow me to keep a vigilant eye open on a group that has already attacked us once and promises to hit us again.
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Hey Charlie, back off of default. If you’re going to have a cow, please don’t use the exact words that I said to you in PM just a few minutes ago. I’d hate to be copy catted by you again.
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Ya know, I was on a Greyhound bus headed for Dallas when the WTC was hit. we had just barely made it out of Denver before they closed down the bus stations. There was a line of vehicles lined up to head to the base. Everyone on the bus was afraid that we were going to get blown up. When we got to Dallas, they dropped us all off at an undisclosed location because they were afraid that the terrorists were going to attack all mass transits.
9/11 hit home for EVERYONE in America! If you felt nothing, then maybe you should find a new country to call home!
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I was living in New York during 9/11. We were anxious but not frightened about what would happen next. But not once did I hear anyone around me making hateful comments about Muslims or Arabs or what they wear on their heads. Why have we turned into a nation that’s afraid of its shadow. And uses fear as an excuse for bigotry and hatred. That’s not the America I know. When we allow ourselves to be dragged into an us vs. them mentality, we all lose.
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so in “Your”America, we are supposed to embrace these people? When someone says they want to kill all Americans i kind of back off the embracing bit. I never asked them to kill our citizens in NYC and the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania. Seems to me its more of a “Them against Us” kind of thing. I dont have a book in my house that tells me to kill all Muslims and i will be rewarded. They do. and they take it very seriously from what i can tell.
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Actually, if we’re a nation that’s afraid of it’s shadow, Bin Laden WINS. And more and more, the things I’m reading here and on other forums tells me just that. And things in the news.
You certainly don’t believe that knocking down the WTC and hitting the Pentagon were the sole objectives, do you?
Of course not! What does he care about whether or not anyone who looks different is ‘profiled’ here? The guys he got to hijack those planes were expendable in his mind, do you think he cares about the way we treat muslimAmericans?
From what I’m seeing, he won a long time ago. Some of us are looking over our shoulder all the time, some are condemning legal citizens because of their ethnicity, some claim ALL Muslims are in on it, and on and on.
Face it, Bin Laden WON, bigtime.
And there’s a lot of folks who just don’t get it.
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I know somebody who says 9/11 didn’t affect them. She’s very ego-centric and living in a little box in her mind…
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She would have to be. 9/11 affected everyone. Yet still Bin Laden is roaming free because Bush decided that Sadam was a bigger threat.
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What a debacle, eh? Several close family members of mine have done multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and for what?
I hate the “I’d rather fight them in their country than ours!” argument. As if that’s even a sensical statement.
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Yep, my uncle Joel did 4 tours in Iraq, and the last time there almost lost his arm during an attack while trying to detain someone.
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Tell your Uncle “Thank You for Your Service” from my family. Oh, and BTW, Storm Chaser, you were, by NO means, out of line. You are very correct. Don’t apologize and don’t stop voicing your opinions.
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Yes, the number of Muslims following Mohammad’s command to “kill unbelievers wherever you find them” may be small, but a much much larger percentage believes in the political purpose of Islam and is working toward that goal in other ways besides terrorism. There are many ways to wage jihad. Violence is only one. Demographics is another (that is, immigrate to a new country, maybe even let them support you with welfare, but definitely out-breed the original inhabitants, build up a politically-active and powerful voting block of Muslims in that country, and then start pressing for concessions). Many forms of jihad are possible — litigation jihad, forest fire jihad, falsify textbooks jihad, and the list goes on and on. Violent Islamic supremacists may, in fact, be the least of our problems.
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Where does jihad and sharia law take hold first? In the most impoverished Arab and Muslim countries. There’s a direct correlation between poverty and the resentment that it breeds. If you don’t have hope, you become susceptible to the $1000 or so payments that Iran offers to the families of suicide bombers. We have to stop applying military solutions to economic problems.
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The Bible is filled with violent acts!
In Exodus alone, readers are told 1) that a child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. Now that’s tough love. 2) If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn’t cry out loud enough, then “the men of the city shall stone her to death.” (Sounds like the brutal Afghanistan stoning we all decried.) And in another verse, God tells the Israelites to make slaves out of their neighbors and their families. Genocide, perhaps? Religion was invented to create some order in societies. It’s long outlived its usefulness, fomenting violence and bigotry instead of peace and love.
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have you come across many Christians taking their kids out and killing them? Muslims do. How about stoning? seen much of that in the Christian community? Muslims do. Its a hard sell to equate what is written in the old testament and what is written in the Koran. And youneedtobeeducated, while i usually cringe at your statements i have to agree 100% with what you just said. Jihad comes in many forms and you nailed it with the ones you mentioned. They should have never attacked us on 9/11. They would be so much further along with their plans had they just followed the items you mentioned and no one would have caught on until it was too late.
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Believe me I’m not a fan of ANY religion. But at least Muslims are devout. Christians are hypocritical. They want to live by reasonable societal norms (no killing of misbehaving kids and cheating spouses) but apply the Bible’s law where they feel threatened, like gay marriage.
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But it says so in the bible. Oh no it can’t be wrong!
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p.s. I was at my desk 2 blocks from the White House.
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Show me where I said I was in Grand Forks. You can’t.
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I’m interested in these articles, and people’s ridiculous reactions to them.
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When I first found this areavoices thing, it was beause the comment sections of our local newspapers were getting overrun with abusive commenters. So they pushed them over to areavoices, but now the activity list includes newspaper articles and comments from newspapers all over the area. My own local newspapers I kept track of were piercecountyherald, swcbulletin, hastingsstargazette, and red wing’s republican-eagle.
Now they’re all on here with all y’alls.
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Makes sense…
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I don’t get it. 3 people dislike the fact that I was at my desk 2 blocks from the White House on 9/11? Huh?
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I have yet to say anything false on this thread. I really don’t get it.
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As long as you brought it up, I’m curious…
How did you personally feel as you discovered the series of events on 9/11, from the perspective of being in such close proximity to a very likely target during that attack?
Was the mood of the people around you a general buzzing chaos of confusion, or was it something more coherent and lucid?
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As it was happening, it was complete and utter chaos. They shut down the metro system, so hundreds of thousands of us downtown were walking the streets just trying to get home, find loved ones, get information, etc. The radios we heard (I had my Walkman, and radios in cars just sitting in line waiting to get over the 14th St. bridge…cars was backed up Conn. Ave well into Cleveland Park–perhaps further) indicated bombings, so we didn’t know what was going on. On top of everything, fighter jets were roaring all over the city, and we heard sonic booms over and over, which re-emphasized why people were thinking about bombs going off. All cell phone service was down, and nobody could get hold of anyone else.
Being so close to the White House, as you can imagine, it was insane with the police presence. It wasn’t until the next few days, as we drove past the Pentagon (which turned a 20 minute commute into a 2 hour one) and saw the massive hole that the massiveness of it all came crashing down to reality. It was the same thing when I went down to Ground Zero a few weeks later, an area of NY where I spent so much time when I lived in Manhattan. I honestly thought I was going to throw up, literally. It felt like I had been kicked in the stomach over and over and over…
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Powerful story. Thanks for sharing!
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and now we are bashed for being concerned and vigilant. How quickly those not directly affected can forget. I’ll bet if they had a family member on one of those planes or in the towers they would still remember and remember it well. I remember being mad that the news kept calling it terrorism when i was positive it had to be an accident, then i saw the smoke rising from the Pentagon and later watched on tv as the second jet hit. and now i’m supposed to just embrace the rest of those who belong to the same religion. with the same book in their possession that told the others to do this. I think not. i dont act harshly towards these people, i leave them alone. But i will forever be suspicious of them; and that was brought on by their actions.
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Still, my original statement stands. I DO find that amazing.
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The thing is, “these people” are terrorists. They’re not ALL Muslims or ALL Arabs. The next Muslim you meet in an airport is no more likely to be a terrorist than the guy next to you is to be a murderer. Fewer than half of Americans have passports. And probably even fewer regularly encounter people who look different and speak a different language than they do. We’ve become a very insular, xenophobic society.
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I don’t see anywhere in the article where they explain where there was a “mix-up”. The authorities suspected there was something tampered with in the lavatory, and they diverted and landed the plane to investigate. The three Saudi students were detained as suspects in the tampering.
No need to be PC about it. As long as there was sufficient evidence to suspect them of tampering, just go ahead and state the facts. Don’t call it a “mix-up” if it was intentional!
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That’s a good point, Eric. If they were, indeed, tampering, then they were rightly detained. The article really doesn’t specify.
Though, until some authority comes out and says the evidence points to them tampering, we have to assume they’re innocent. So the Herald may be jumping the gun saying it was a “mix-up,” but until law enforcement says otherwise, they’re technically correct.
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If people are this scared of three people who are different then them and don’t speak their language, I can’t imagine how “terrifying” a flight to/from Saudi Arabia to New York or other large American cities is like on a daily basis.
Some people need to stop all this “America is #1, these colors don’t run” stuff. There are other people in this world too, and just because they don’t speak our language or dress differently doesn’t mean we should be so rude to them. They were already questioned in Minneapolis just for not speaking english and looking different. Also, the article says other passengers used the restroom too. So it doesn’t mean that one of these three men tampered with anything. It could have been some North Dakotan.
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I’m not a racist, if that’s what your hinting at. Stupid people scare me and I don’t care if they are red, orange, yellow, green blue, purple, brown, black or white!
I had a best friend from Pakistan when I was younger. I lived with some people from India. All very sweet people.
It’s when people come to our country for reasons that can be labeled as suspicious, that’s when people start to worry. The fact they were questioned by authorities to begin with means they were already suspicious before they boarded the plane.
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I think the question we really need to be asking is if anyone here had a view of Logan airport on 9/11.
Nevar forget.
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I guess they forget to tell the flight staff that Arabs also pee like the rest of us
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Muslims hate their women, and any group that hates their women can’t love anyone else.
Thier god allah hates women, so muslims hate women too.
Islam is a sick culture. We have every reason to tell people who believe in the Islamic ideology that that too. Muslims should hear that their society is sick.
What do you think that does to little girls and boys minds when they know that women have to be covered up in bee keeper outfits and women are worthless compared to men? Psychologically, it can’t be good. Islam is a sick culture.
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1. Keep it civil and stay on topic.
2. No profanity, vulgarity, racial slurs, or personal attacks.
3. People who harass others or joke about tragedies will be blocked
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Yeah and do they enforce that? Nope
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Hatred is not the answer. If anything, I am anti-hatred. That’s why I am trying to expose Islamic teachings: Shari’a law includes a system of legally-mandated hatred. Mohammad is their model, and he expressed hatred toward non-Muslims. He maligned them, robbed them, tortured them, killed them, raped them, and took them as slaves. Muslims are supposed to follow his example. It says so in the Qur’an over seventy times
I’d encourage everyone to research all religions and learn what they are really all about as it affects us all.
Peace everyone.
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I’m appalled at how flip the Herald is about these students being deprived of their dignity if not their rights. “Oops, it was all a silly mistake. No harm, no foul. Go about your business. There’s nothing to see here.” No, it wasn’t a mistake. Bigotry is never inadvertent. Their documents were checked in Mpls and they were cleared to fly. Does anyone actually think a half-full 50-seat Pinnacle commuter jet would be terrorists’ next target!?
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why not? the death of three muslims to kill three non muslims would be more than acceptable to them. 20 or more would be a field day. Who are you to determine the level of vigilance we as Americans should show? If you love them so much, go hang out in Mecca; just be sure to ID your head and torso so that when they become separated the coroner can put them in the same coffin.
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Boo! Sorry, I didn’t mean to scare you…
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One more crazy feather in your hat. Now lets discuss them silly folk that believe we went to the moon. thats the kind of thinking the “National Welfare State” believers enjoy.
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!400 architects and engineers you dis with such facility capt. You are truly arrogant. In 1998 the neocon “Project for a new American Century” suggested Americans wouldn’t support a Mid East war unless there was a Pearl Harbor like attack on the US. Bush appointees like Richard Pearl et al were the authors of the report. Gee 3 yrs. later that attack happened. We are so convinced of our own “American exceptionalisn” we can’t imagine our own National Security State isn’t capable of that kind of evil but the Muslim world is. How transparent is that line of thought.
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“I apologize to no one for be skeptical of every person who looks like they are from the middle east. A better question would be why can they not learn English in their own country?”
You can find as diverse of a group of opinions amongst 9/11 survivors as you can people who were there to experience it–a lot of people and a lot of opinons. Including Muslims. And apparently including the hardly literate and prejudice man I just quoted.
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So no one would find it odd if i showed up in Russia barely able to speak Russian and wanted to attend flight school? Somehow i think that would be questioned by just about anyone with half a brain. before you attend a foreign university, you should probably have afirm grasp of that nations language. or do you believe that a person who barely speaks english can attend university level courses successfully when the classes are fast paced and taught in English? Either i’m a predjudiced bigot or people like you are blind to the world around you. and keeping in mind that on 9/10 the Islamic religion meant absolutely nothing to me i’d say they brought this upon themselves.
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They were questioned and the FBI ignored their own agents warnings. Must have been a plan do get us into a war as part of the phoney WMD lies.
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More taqiyya Spearman?
The Muslims who are terrorists are able to do what they do because of a tremendous amount of support from their community, and that support is motivated by Islamic teachings. It is also motivated by the hope that the supporters will gain entry to Paradise. The martyr can plea to Allah (once he arrives in Paradise) on behalf of up to seventy of his relatives to get them a ticket to Paradise. For those who believe this, it is a tremendous incentive to help any of their relatives who plan on killing non-Muslims. In other words, that “small percentage” of Muslims who are active terrorists are only the tip of the iceberg of a tremendous amount of popular support for the killing of non-Muslims. Remember the jubilation throughout the Muslim world when thousands of non-Muslims were killed on 9/11? Only 19 hijackers did it, but clearly millions supported it. Millions. Maybe hundreds of millions. Why? Because that’s the kind of thing Muslims are supposed to do according to the Qur’an and the “perfect” example of Mohammad
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YNTBE, So Xians aren’t told from birth they will go to heaven if they behave including going to war when they come of age to protect & die for Xian capitalism. How is that any different than what you accuse Muslims of?
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Umm, if there were no top-notch flight training institutions in your country, yeah, you just might. English as a second language is part of the curriculum for foreign aviation students. Is the language barrier really the issue? Would you have said the same thing about Norwegian students who didn’t speak English? Just own up to it.
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Umm, Norwegians don’t blow themselves up in the name of religion. Norwegians don’t fly planes into buildings. Norwegian women enjoy the best treatment by men in the world.
So that’s a really bad comparison Scott.
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I’m a Norwegian-American man and I can confirm that statement to be true and factual.
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FOR THE RECORD – I tried to correct my typo about four times last night immediately after posting and stupid areavoices didn’t allow me to delete my own comment. Or stupid me, for not figuring out how to do it. I spelled “opinion†wrong while criticizing someone’s grammar while having a discussion about the English language. So shame-on-me.
But yes, you were on to something about being a prejudiced bigot, so let’s continue where we left off. “These people†are not the people you’re confusing them with – terrorists. These people are Saudi Arabian aviation students. These people are University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux. Actually, they will have priority over you next year if they choose to buy hockey tickets (if that puts things in perspective). To be “skeptical†of everyone you meet because they might be from the Middle East is being a flat out racist, softly put. That leads to bigger problems. But at least you have the stones to admit it publically unlike most of this community.
Give them a break on the English language issue. What I was trying to imply is that you haven’t mastered it yet either. And they were on their way to college, literally, en route. So with a little time and fairness they’ll have a better understanding of America and bring that back to Saudi Arabia.
Unless their only experience is intolerance, meanness, unfairness, bigotry, racism, hatred and all of the things that accompany those attitudes. That opinion isn’t conducive to anything good. It’s apparently a popular one in Grand Forks too, Captain, and thank you for articulating it.
Can’t they go someplace else? UND’s aviation program would tank without international students, so don’t bite the hand that feeds. They are not terrorists. I wonder how old these guys all are… They were probably 13 at the time the events of 9/11 took place. Here I go being a bleeding heart liberal again! Let’s be safe. Everyone’s guilty until proven innocent. Welcome to America.
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For the record – I already have season tickets to the UND Hockey and Football games. They are very nice. Secondly, these three students will NOT be University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux, simply because the name is going away. I do not trust any of them. thats just the way it is. It should matter pretty much zero to anyone them included that i feel this way simply because i do not take any actions against anyone. before 9/11 i could have passed a dozen of them in turbans and full mideastern wardrobe and not even gave it a second thought. Today i see them and the first thing i think of is terrorism. it was their people that made the two terms interchangeable in my mind and the minds of many others; probably more than are willing to admit it. I believe in live and let live but that doesnt mean that i have to blindly trust everyone. As far as the English class, if you were going to an Arabic University where you would be taking Aribic classes as well as a technical course that was taught in Arabic; wouldnt you think you would need a pretty good grasp of the Arabic Language before you ever left America? I’m not saying you wouldnt take more classes to get better, but you would at least know enough to get from here to there without any issues… right? Two of these three couldnt even speak well enough to get through a simple conversation yet it doesnt strike anyone as odd that they are attending college level English courses? Maybe its just my military backround that makes me more vigilant and always paying attention to whats going on around me but to completely ignore things around you just so someone else doesnt call you a bigot is a dangerous road to travel.
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We should be thankful for the these students Arab culture. We wouldn’teven be here if it wasn’t for the fact that they preserved Greek thought after the collapse of Rome and didn’t have to have an enlightenment to recapture Greek knowledege. They were kind enough to basically give it to us by opening their Spanish libraries to us which enabled us to have an Enlightenment. Americans are so chauvinistic.
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Dan D. Norway Norwegian men treat their women better than any other men in the world. Norwegian American men are the same as any other men in the US as to how they treat women. Its not the same. Just go to Norway and see for yourself. Its an amazing country.
“I have talked to Muslims. And I’ve met some very nice Muslims. They are either ignoring some of the basic, mainstream Islamic teachings (read more about it in the Koran) or they are using taqiyya (research taqiyya), which is the Islamic principle of “religious deception” or deception for the sake of Islam.
“But hopefully, they were simply genuinely nice people who are ignoring some of their religious principles. You see, if a Muslim is truly a friend to me, he or she is violating an important doctrine of Islam: A Muslim is forbidden to befriend a non-Muslim. I’m not making this up. It’s in the Quran and it’s stated very clearly.
“But either way, it doesn’t change the fact that the doctrine of Islam is hazardous to non-Muslims and we should learn about it. Sixty-one percent of the Quran is about how Muslims are supposed to deal with non-Muslims. Millions of Muslims around the world are devout believers in that doctrine.
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Read Hitchen’s column in Slate Magazine “Free Exercise of Religion? No, Thanks. “
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Face it, the ideology of Islam is terrifying. Islam went through no age of enlightenment like chrisitanity did so that there is a somewhat separation of church and state. The way the koran is written, and because of Muhammed’s teachings, I don’t think Islam can go through an age of enlightenment. Its either Islam, or freedom. And that’s the choice muslims have to make. The rest of us non-muslims, the west, are going to have to decide how much of our freedom we enjoy, are we willing to lose in the name of being politically correct, to accomodate Islam’s political ideologies within our countries. I for one am not willing to give an inch to Islam and its sharia law. In fact I want even more freedom not less.
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You don’t know what you’re talking about YNTBE. Islam didn’t need an Enlightenment because it never was without the Greek science and philosophy that the West lost contact with when Rome fell. If it wasn’t for Islam providing Xianity with that knowledge a 1000 yrs. ago or so we would still be in the Dark Ages. You don’t get it or you are just being difficult because you know you didn’t know about that fact concerning Islam vis a vis Xianity.
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I’ve posted before to you Spearman, Taqiyya doesn’t work on me.
One tactic of taqiyya muslims will use is: “You owe us a debt of gratitude because Islam is the basis of Western civilization.” This sort of statement is usually backed up by revisionist arguments that Muslims invented everything and were responsible for the Renaissance. In some ways this is a rather pathetic quest for significance. Muslim culture has been moribund for the past 600 years, whereas the West has forged ahead. Muslims now want a stake in the success story by claiming they were somehow responsible for the West’s development.
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After all the exchanges we’ve had you still need to mention you’ve posted “to me before”? It is standard scholarship to speak of Islam saving Greek/Roman achievements while was Rome was falling and the West entering the Dark Ages and not recovering without the Islamic help. Just because YOU say this didn’t happen doesn’t mean it didn’t. Back it up with some facts instead of prejudice.
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Again Spearman, your taqiyya doesn’t work on me. I’d encourage all you readers to research taqiyya. Taqiyya is very detrimental for non-muslims.
A bigot is “strongly partial to his own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.”
So someone who is a Christian, for example, and is intolerant of anyone who is not a Christian, is a bigot. Or anyone who is Chinese and intolerant of anyone who is not Chinese, is a bigot. If the group to which you are partial is your race, then bigotry is the same as racism.
There are definitely people trying to stop Islam’s relentless encroachment who are motivated by bigotry. But criticism of Islamic doctrine is not bigotry.
I am partial to groups who want to support the continued existence of the United States. So I guess in that sense, I am a bigot — I am partial to a group and intolerant of subversives. I don’t want our government overthrown or subverted by someone who wants to follow Shari’a law. I am against any movement trying to take away women’s rights, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech, which is what Islamic supremacists are doing.”
But if that can be defined as a bigot or prejudice, I hope you are that kind of bigot, too. Are you?”
Do you believe others have a right to worship as they wish? Do you believe people of other races have the same human rights as yours?
If you are a Republican and you have Democrat friends, if you are a Jew and have a Buddhist, Hindu, or Christian friend, if you are Anglo-Saxon but have a Mexican friend, you are not a bigot or prejudiced. And if you are accusing me of being a bigot Spearman, I want you to know I have friends of many races, and am mixed race myself.
The real issue here is: The doctrine of Islam, our right to criticize it, and the danger it presents to the free world.
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Saudi Arabia is the only Muslim country that doesn’t allow other religions to practice their faith. Prejudice is to pre-judge. That’s what you do best concerning Muslims.
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In Egypt the coptic christians live literally, in the garbage dump because muslims there don’t allow them to live anywhere else. Muslim men steal the coptic girls and force them to marry a muslim man and become muslim.
In Somalia, you’d be killed for being a christian, atheist, take your pick, you’d be killed. In Iran, oh boy, you don’t want to be anything but muslim there. Same with the other muslim majority countries. In Indonesia, they don’t let christians, or anyone else not muslim, even gather for a service. Your religious deception, taqiyya, that Moohammed encouraged his followers to do, doesn’t work on me Spearman. Anyone who has studied even a small amount of Islam can see right through your religious deception also called taqiyya.
I really strongly dislike (hate) the text of the Qur’an, and the hadiths too. I don’t hate muslims, I feel terrible pity for them, for being brainwashed as little kids to such a horrible, woman hating, freedom hating, ideology.
Read a book by Wafa Sultan for goodness sakes Spearman.
Or Ayan Hirsi Ali.
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