September 18, 2010 at 7:03 pm in INFORUM
Local college instructors call it an alarming trend. More and more students are coming to college unprepared, requiring them to retake courses they should have mastered in high school. Continue Reading
Tags: Higher Education, K12 education, msctc, NDSU, remedial education 24 Comments »
There’s no surprise here? We’re plagued with people trying to do the politically correct thing in this country! Why do we hold an entire class back because two kids require more time on a topic due to for example poor English skills? Why are many teachers not available outside of class hour for help? I have three kids in school yet and at conferences I asked all of them when they are available and nearly all were “only” during school hours. I know my kids have no open hours during the day. Luckily they don’t often need extra help because it’s not there! Our schools even shorten Wednesdays so teachers can have a day in case there are departmental meetings! Gee, the working world should try that one. Better not say anything about any teachers working 35 hrs/wk for 8 mo/yr or your post will be trashed with negative feedback. Look, either we want our kids to succeed or we want to raise a village of idiots. Too many people get by with the minimal amount they are forced to provide, and we are far too sensitive about leaving one kid behind. We let teachers skate and let students get by with murder just to keep some standardized tests from having a few low scores, and this is the result. We’re raising a generation over wrought with lazy, half educated children, many with no manners or respect. Look in our classrooms at the disrespect and lack of caring amongst nearly half the class. You reap what you sow. Get back to teachers being required to be available an hour after school, require kids do homework like it or not, take the stupid cell phones away during the day and until homework is done, if one kid can’t keep up let them retake the course or grade. One kid being behind should not fail the entire class!
Hot debate. What do you think? 23 29
Gee, Opinionated… getting past the insulting sweeping generalities targeted at the students..which means nothing, and the personal attacks on our educators, you have an underlying point.
We DO need to give our kids more school time. They will be competing with kids from other countries who DO teach them far more than our schools teach our children, and if we want to keep them competitive, we need to give them more time. Does this mean making the teachers work 50+ work weeks?
No, it means its time we do what the other countries do and have a 12 month school year so the kids would have more time to absorb the information, and the teachers would have more time for each student… as you yourself compared the schools with the work environment, what job gives you 3 months a year off?
Hot debate. What do you think? 23 11
Education is the key to the success in our country. The level of educatation is directly correlates to personal success, and is what drives the economy. Our public schools are directly responsable for the success of our nation, and should not be taken lightly.
This article on the decline of education is the result of the partisan, and frankly, Ideologically driven “No Child Left Behind” (NCLB). This model was not designed with the best interest of the childrens education in mind, and was almost universally hated by teachers. It focus’s on testing, and dissallows the teachers to do what they were trained to do… teach in a holisticly, which exponentially increases the amount of information absorbed by students in a synergistic manner.
If we want to improve our syestem, we need thoughtful changes and need to have good leadership with a strong understanding of the issue. Following is the candidates for Minnesota’s governor seats stand on education.
Listen carefully to all the stands, and most importantly who has put the most thought into this. poverty is the core of most of our countries problems, and Education is the most important solution. It doesn’t matter which party the candidate belongs to, elect the candidate who puts the most thought into this issue, and promises the most proactive solutions. NCLB’s teaching to the test is not proactive, its reactive.
North Dakota candidates don’t seem to care. Think about that before voting. This SHOULD be the most important issue, raising the median income of graduating college students increases the tax base and thus drives the economy.
In my opinion, Minestota’s Emmer won this debate hands down.
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Oh my gosh! This letter cracked me up! The misspelled words, the improper punctuation, and all the usage errors underscore the point that the writer making about the sorry state of our educational system! Kudos, Vertigo.
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My best guess is this is a direct result of the latest trend that no one fails a class in Jr High and High School and that almost all students receive an A or B if they show up and try. The sad thing is these students go through jr high and high school thinking that they’re naturally good students and don’t need to work hard and then they get to college and become discouraged because A’s and B’s aren’t easy anymore and they are at risk to drop out.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 28 5
This goes back to colleges only looking at GPA when accepting students. I noted the trend many years ago when students would take “general math” or “business math” instead of calc or geometry or advanced algebra. The same applies to science courses with students avoiding chemistry and physics and taking much easier courses. Some did it because they had no intention of going to college or tech school. But I know many others who did it because they could pad their GPA and graduate higher in their class with a better GPA. A large majority of those I saw do that never finished college while I, who finished high school in the lower 1/2 of my class, earned a Masters degree from a rather prestigious private University that does not accept students with less than a 3.6gpa in undergrad. Way to much weight is given simply to GPA in high school grads for college. The answer is a way to reward those who take the more difficult classes. Maybe assigning a difficulty level so a student in addition to their GAP also earn a rating of difficulty level of the courses they chose to take in High school to give the colleges a better idea of how advanced the courses taken were.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 19 2
Maybe colleges here aren’t as competitive, but I know more than just our GPA were looked at when applying to colleges. When you take an AP class (advanced placement, college level material) your GPA is based on a 5.0 scale. I can’t speak for those who didn’t take AP level classes, but my classmates and I were together since 4th grade, when we were put in the advanced classes. We all had the same goal: get into a good college. So, we all took the same classes trying to maximize our GPA. Most all of us graduated with close to a 5.0 GPA. With GPA and courses taken almost identical across Southern CA, colleges have to look at sports, clubs, activities, and volunteer history when making their decisions.
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They didn’t do that when I went through the Fargo School System. My counselor’s excuse was that it was unfair or some garbage… Of course she also dropped classes from my schedule, without notice or permission, because she thought it was too challenging… Excuse me if I think an 8 period class schedule should be filled with, SHOCKER, 8 classes! She even made me go through and get written permission from every teacher to get re-added… At which point she told me the course was too full and I couldn’t get in anyway (the wonderful teacher of the AP class changed that real quick). Of course, she also told me that “NDSU is just as good as those bigger schools!” and that sinceI took the SAT/ACT in 10th grade that I shouldn’t bother with the PSAT (little did I know that many scholarships are awarded based on PSAT results)… When she announced her retirement from Fargo South, before my youngest two siblings had to deal with her, my mother gave her a big old hug. (3.9 HS GPA, engineering PhD, etc… stupid counselors… and that’s my rant for the day).
Back on topic, though, I’m not sure of any selective schools that only look at GPA. It might be more the case for HS’s they know of, but for many they will dissect your transcript. Even without the weighted GPA, they will give greater consideration for an AP-heavy schedule than, say, a vocational-weighted schedule. NDSU/UND and the like have the greater problem of having to accept just about every moron that graduates high school and the fact that our piss-poor primary/secondary education system ill-prepares even those who should excel in the university environment.
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They have been saying this since the sixties, at least.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 20
It’s about time the state puts some of that budget surplus into bringing our state’s schools to a level competitive with the rest of the country… Perhaps, given all the bragging about the surplus, we could even put forth an effort to make the state’s schools competitive with the rest of the developed world. Think of the return on investment on that! All the families moving into the state, strengthening the economy, just to offer their children a top-notch education.
Like or Dislike: 17 9
It’s because kids don’t care anymore. Some of them are lazy, some of them think they know it all, and some have a general lack of respect. In a perfect world, getting the message across to high schoolers that taking extra courses in college costs a lot is a great idea…but trying to give a 17- or 18-year old good advice that may help them out in the future is about as fruitful as trying to sell snowballs to an Eskimo. I think they probably REALLY don’t care, when they know that mommy and daddy are going to be paying for their schooling…or when they know they’ll be getting loans (“You mean…I don’t have to pay this money abck until I’m done with school!? And I can use it for shopping or buying beer!?? WOW!”) to pay for school.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 12
As much fun as it is to castigate kids for being kids, Amelia, thats abdicating our responsability. WE (society) have the responsability to provide them with the tools to succeed. The SCHOOLS have the responsability to teach them how to use these tools. Their PARENTS have the responsability to assure they use those tools.
My experience is that when the kids have all their resources provided for them, they are VERY responsible, and strive to succeed. Instead of pointing fingers at them, look at who is shirking their responsability. Usually its US (society) who shorts them of the tools necessary, then its the parents, who use the schools to warehouse the kids, so they can be lazy hands off parents.
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Ditto on my last comment about this same writer. I suspect the real initials may be M.D., as the style and the overuse of large words ring a bell.
“And I can use it for shopping or buying beer!?? ”
My student loans were paid directly to my school; I NEVER received one cent from either my federal or private student loans. I never understood why some loans go to the students for “living expenses.” Isn’t that why you get a part time job? Housing on campus, paid by loans that are given directly to the school is different, since housing is a fundamental necessity. As are meal plans. I see absolutely no reason to give a student loan check to the student and expect them to be responsible with it.
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Time to cut education further, obviously the program is no good
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 22
What do you want to bet the vast majority of these students who need remedial schooling come from public schools. Moorhead school district for the past two years has failed to meet standards, yet they are asking for more money to improve education. More money does not equal better educaiton. The only result from giving more money to public school systems is to increase pay and bennefits for teachers and staff..it has no correlation to increased student performance. Only a motiviated student will learn, a student will only be motivated if their parents foster an atmosphere where achademic achievement is expected.
Hot debate. What do you think? 13 20
Hey! Look everybody! It’s someone who badmouths the public education system by making erroneous statements about school funding and benefits! Perhaps you should take the time to actually study school funding, budgets, and cost allocation… It would astonish you.
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While I agree with many of the points made before me, I also think that blame is being placed on the students when it shouldn’t always be. I just finished up a Masters at NDSU this past spring, and my Bachelors the year before. Both trigonometry and pre-calculus (now considered remedial) were REQUIRED classes for the B.S. degree, and also classes that I had already taken in high school. One option is a CLEP test, a way to test out of the required classes. Neither of those tests, at the time, were available. I’m not sure if that’s still the case.
“NDSU also considers college algebra, trigonometry and pre-calculus to be remedial math courses, but students can earn degree credit for those courses, Comez said. By his estimation, the percent of freshmen in math this semester who are taking remedial courses is about 55 percent.”
It seems unfair to say that students are unprepared for college by taking these classes, when, in reality, they’re left with few options. I know I would have paid the $92 for the test, versus the $600+/- for the class. If the option had been available, no question about it.
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I know many college professors, and they all pretty much agree that the main problem with the current crop of students is that the kids don’t read. Children who read learn vocabulary, spelling, grammar and so much more. But then, I’m the grandma who thinks that children can never have too many books, and I’m always on the lookout for something they would like. When I visit them we almost always make a trip to a really great little used bookstore in their town. They look forward to it — and so do I!
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I totally agree!
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Andrew – I do study education pay and bennefits. Here is just one example of research conducted….of course I could cite thousands of similar examples but you should be able to grasp the concept with just this one;
For decades critics of the public schools have been saying, “You can’t solve educational problems by throwing money at them.” The education establishment and its supporters have replied, “No one’s ever tried.” In Kansas City they did try. To improve the education of black students and encourage desegregation, a federal judge invited the Kansas City, Missouri, School District to come up with a cost-is-no-object educational plan and ordered local and state taxpayers to find the money to pay for it.
Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil–more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers’ salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robotics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.
The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.
The Kansas City experiment suggests that, indeed, educational problems can’t be solved by throwing money at them, that the structural problems of our current educational system are far more important than a lack of material resources, and that the focus on desegregation diverted attention from the real problem, low achievement.
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That’s not an example against anything I said…. But nice try conflating it all with the old “throw money at it” mantra. There is a HUGE difference between having enough in the budget to pay for teachers in every classroom and building robotics labs, zoos, and wildlife sanctuaries.
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I just can’t find a job with my 17th century literature/opera/womens studies degree. Why is that?
The “throw money at it” mantra is only considered mantra if you are an academic, a politician or one who has bought into their propoganda that more money taken from the tax payer and put into government/education coffers leads to a better life for all. Ohh and really we have classrooms with no teachers…well I guess that would be a problem, WTF? Maybe Robert Asp school in MHD shouldn’t have bought 50 brand new Mac computers for about $2500 a pop when they could have gotten 50 new Windows machines for less than half. FACT MHD teachers average salary is 54K per year not counting bennefits (source Fargo Forum). For working 9 months of the year, no nights, no weekends, no holidays…compare that to a police-fire-nurse-soldiers salary and work schedule.
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