September 7, 2010 at 7:00 pm in INFORUM
Hawley (Minn.) Lutheran Church, a congregation of more than 1,100 baptized members, could take the first step Sept. 19 toward breaking with its denomination.
Tags: elca, Faith, hawley lutheran church 60 Comments »
This is a good thing, The Lutheran church is after all based upon a foundation of protestantism, and its their way. This allows the intolerant people to marginalize themselves instead of being an impediment to the progress of the church.
Hot debate. What do you think? 38 24
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Vertigo I didn’t realize you felt that way about intolerant homosexuals.
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Please, Rambo, show me there is such a thing as an intolerant homosexual. I am sure you can find lots of citations on this…. Please prove it.
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That’s my interpretation of your comment. I didn’t say it, you did.
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No, I didn’t say that at all. You have consistantly shown a really distorted … er.. interpretation. I think you are just a troll….
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Have you looked in the mirror or at your avatar lately? You call me a troll.
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I contribute meaningful topic oriented posts with references to validate what I am saying.
You on the other hand, throw in potshots with no concept of whats actually happening.
PS, I am still looking for you to show me your asserted
“Please, Rambo, show me there is such a thing as an intolerant homosexual. I am sure you can find lots of citations on thisâ€¦. Please prove it.
I am waiting, its your assertion, its your burden of proof.. unless you actually ARE a troll……
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Come on Vertigo, quit your whining.
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Wheres your meaningful contribution?
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Vertigo, I laughed so hard when I read about your meaningful contribution I almost peed my pants.
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Hey ELCA, wanna play Jenga?
Hot debate. What do you think? 18 22
Hey all you “so called Christians”, how about loving your brothers and sisters in CHRIST as human beings instead of casting stones at them for their choice in sexuality.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 55 29
You meant well with your comment, but you’re still way off like the rest. They don’t choose it.
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Would the last member of the ELCA please turn out the lights?
Hot debate. What do you think? 33 35
Hey, best post of the year there guy.
Hot debate. What do you think? 12 20
Scott, how intolerant of you. You can’t stand a church that disagrees with you can you?
Let us hope this congregation will find a better home then the ELCA.
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Apparently it is these few churches that can’t stand other churches that disagree with them. It is them, after all, who cannot reconcile their bigotry with the continued progress of the rest. It is them who are choosing to leave. It is these church’s right and I wish them good riddance. As @Vertigo stated, these churches will continue to marginalize themselves until social progress is triumphant. It baffles me why people are so fixated on who other people love, but who am I to judge? (Actually, that’s my point. Who am I to judge? And who are you to judge? Gays deserve the same rights as straights, whether or not you agree with what they do. It’s not harming anyone!)
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It shouldn’t matter. Let each church decide for themself.. Thats our right as a country.
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Andrew, the Anglicans have gay clergy and marriage. Are they growing? Catholics don’t and they ARE growing. Churches have the right to oppose the gay agenda and the right to kick out homosexuals who try to disrupt their faith. I wish the ELCA had exercised those rights. Good riddance to homosexuals who leave.
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Zardie, you’re kind of talking in circles. Is it good riddance to the homos leaving or are they taking over the church?
Are they kicking out the homos, or leaving because the homos won’t leave?
Again, this obsession with homosexuality.
Hot debate. What do you think? 20 14
Mac, that is what the article is about. Actually it is the homosexuals who are obsessed with making everyone agree with their lifestyle. They should kick out homosexual activists before they take over their church. But it is too late for them I think.
Hot debate. What do you think? 15 23
I don’t think it’s so much to make everyone agree with their lifestyle as it is to make everyone shut up and worry about their own sinful lives and sexual hangups.
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Catholics have an epidemic of priests who are pedophiles. Maybe that is why they are growing. Young parents want their sons molested.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 23
Actually Red the head gay activist in the UK said this week that the age of consent should be lowered to the age of 14. Do you wonder why?
When Catholics do it they violate the doctrines of the Church. When Lutheran’s do it they now call it a sacrament in the ELCA. There is the difference.
You like to take things out of context don’t you? The age of consent being lowered to 14 would not mean that an adult could legally have sexual contact with a 14 year old. The law being proposed contains language concerning an age gap:
“The minimum age for sexual activity should be lowered to 14 but supplemented by an ‘age span’ provision where people aged 14 and 15 would only be able to have sexual activity with a person less than two years older, until 16.”
That is the actual quote by Dr. Matthew Waits, who is proposing the change. Dr. Matthew Waits happens to be happily married, to a woman no less. Don’t you hate it when people actually check your sources?
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the age of consent in Puerto Rico is 14. I saw a story on this topic and about how rotten pedophiles from the US are making travel plans there so they can fall through the cracks in order to escape the examination they face here.
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…should have said examination/prosecution
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@not Bastet Puerto Rico is the US….
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I realize that PR is a territory of the US–I am talking about pedophiles from white bread America taking trips there so that they can get at a younger set of victims — less hindered legally than they would here in the 50 states.
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Um, would you cite please, Zardoz! My research shows Christianity is shrinking, and Islam is growing.
Christian – 2,038,905,000 – 32% (dropping)
Roman Catholics – 1,076,951,000
Protestants – 349,792,000
Orthodox – 217,522,000
Anglicans – 81,663,000
Other – 537,135,000
Muslims – 1,226,403,000 – 21% (growing)
Hindus – 828,130,000 – 13% (stable)
Chinese folk religionists – 389,543,000 – 6%
Buddhists – 364,014,000 – 6% (stable)
Sikhs – 23,821,000 – < 1%
Jews – 14,535,000 – < 1%
Note that Islam is the second largest religion in the world, and in the US, its growing faster than anywhere else.
Christians are converting to Islam fast.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 13 23
Vert, actually not. Muslims inflate their numbers. Phillip Jenkins showed that Christianity is still outpacing Islam. I don’t know a single family member of friend that has become Muslim. They do get converts when they threaten to behead people though.
Hot debate. What do you think? 13 21
Does it really matter who or what is growing bigger??? Seriously, isn’t it about your own faith and what you believe in rather than what church is bigger etc… So silly.
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Please cite then, Zardoz. Just saying its so doesn’tmake it so.
I showed a solid citation. Your turn.
There is a lot of positive elements to the religion of Islam, far more than given credit for when you listen to Rush or your own minister. People convert because the positive message appeals to them.
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yes, positive messages indeed. I particularly enjoyed the verse about “WHEN you beat a woman”. Not IF or WHY beat a woman–but WHEN.
Vertigo–have you ever actually READ any of the Koran? It is almost impossible to decipher. It reads like the writings of a person on a bad drug trip.
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Islam is only growing because Muslim women are treated like breeding cattle, whereas the Christian world does not…large families are OPTIONAL…not forced upon these women.
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The Anglican church has a different situation, as their pastors are installed by the bishop, not called by individual congregations as the case is in the ELCA. If a church in the ELCA doesn’t want a homosexual pastor, they don’t have to call one.
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That will change soon enough.
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Zardoz, I am not intolerant of those that disagree. I am however wondering how one can truly call themselves Christian if they basically and YES I WILL SAY IT, “HATE” others and cast stones at those with a different sexuality but same religious belief. Because you don’t share the same beliefs as far as sexuality doesn’t automatically make it that you have different beliefs in Christ. I am a very happy straight man with a beautiful wife and two kids but I don’t get my undies in a bunch because someone wants to share life with someone of the same sex. They are HUMAN BEINGS and somebodies son or daughter. There is nobody on GOD’s green earth qualified besides CHRIST himself to judge ANYBODY (Black, White, Hispanic, Muslim, Gay, Straight, Bi, handicapped or other.) As soon as people start retracting their heads from their **DONKEYS** and living their lives instead of trying to control others maybe there would be a chance at WORLD PEACE.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 29 14
But Scott, if we had world peace, then there would be nobody to judge, and the Christian Church would become obsolete!!!
Hot debate. What do you think? 16 19
The hate comes from the homosexuals. After prop 8 they attacked people in the streets. They will not leave any church alone if they have a chance to subvert it.
You just judged those you disagree with. So I guess you are Christ?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 12 24
I challenge you to find more than the example of the vandalism in San Fransisco. Then google “hate crimes against homosexuals” See what happens more often. I’ll never condone violence or vandalism. Much the same as a Pentecostal Christian pastor claims to represent the entire United States when he threatens to burn the Koran on September 11, you cannot judge the whole by a what very few have done.
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So you admit there was violence? Yet you excuse it. Figures.
You are lying now, Zardoz. Please show me a gay organization who is attacking people in the streets.
I can show YOU a so called Christian who is threatening to burn the Quran to powerbroker for political gain.
Hot debate. What do you think? 19 11
Vert, ah the irony. If he burns a Quran then Muslims will KILL people. You prove my point.
Use google and you will find articles about gay violence after prop 8.
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So you would lower yourself to the level of the terrorists and use an isolated example as justification for your hate. Congratulations.
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I remember when homosexuals disrupted Mass at St. Pat’s in NYC and desecrated the Eucharist. That is terrorism.
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Any evidence of this claim? Google provides none. Are you making stuff up again?
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SO now Google becomes the expert.. Holy cow, what would we have done 20 years ago when there was no google?? Everyone’s common sense has gone away since the internet has come about.
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Its Zardoz’s claim, so its his burdon of proof. If he cannot prove it, he is admitting to lying about it….. typical Neo Con Christian.
He needs to prove the gays are organized enough to have an agenda.
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Cite please Zardoz, and I would appreciate full context, not just an isolated quote.
Please cite what difference that is going to make to you Vertigo. Zardoz could be Jesus Christ himself and you wouldn’t believe him.
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Either put up or shot uup, I am not the one who lies about other people to make a point, everything I say can be backed up as factual truth. Why can’t you do so also.
Frankly, Trolls only disrupt the discourse of more intelligent people. Think about it.
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I’m not disrupting the discourse of more intelligent people, therefore I can’t be a troll. I think that troll head avatar may soon explode Vertigo.
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This flaming goofball sits in his mother’s basement in his underwear all day, on welfare, crying about how he and his homosexual buddies are being discriminated against. Every time I look at these forums, I see that he’s been at it all day. Don’t entertain this idiot.
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Miss North Dakota, I had to hit the thumbs up button. Great imagery! (My mom made me move out when I turned 42. Damn.)
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now THAT was a good one 😉
and what’s with his need for citations? Vertigo–there’s this little set of tabs up at the top –if you “click” on one it will open up (whoo-hoo just like magic) there, you can type in any word or topic you wish to research dear. For example for people who have never heard of NAMBLA for example, as I mentioned in my earlier post–they can type it in and discover that it is a rotten collection of old gay pedophiles seeking to lower the age of sexual consent for innocent young boys. Something pesky about incarceration for rape that just seems to get in the way when planning out their day …
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oh, that was directed at lovenorthdakota–but yours was funny too Mac….
have something I’d love to say here about why go gay–when women have so much more to offer (ha) but I am sure they’d delete it …and I read a post from somebody on here about gays having manicured lawns (was that you Mac?) –maybe that’s the explanation –as weed and feed is an extremely toxic endocrine disruptor….when I see lawns like that I make it a point not to move next door…..for that reason alone! so ‘green’ people being ‘green with envy’ is pretty unlikely 😉
Yes, that was me about the green lawns. The same mom who kicked me out at 42 used to put weed and feed on my cereal because one of her crazy friends told her it would help kids grow, and function kind of similar to an antibiotic-like product. Do you suppose that’s what happened???
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You know itâ€™s food for thought isnâ€™t it? America is basically taking a bath in endocrine disruptors every day–and then wondering why they have the health problems they do. They say estrogenic compounds are everywhere–this affects men with low sperm counts/etc. and breast cancer is everywhere isnâ€™t it? Perhaps there is a physical cause for being gay. I know you guys like to pass it off as â€œI was born that wayâ€ which as you know I donâ€™t agree with. But I will give you a point in that direction if there is an environmental cause for it. I think an interesting area of study would be the testing of hormone levels of gay vs. straight individuals. Maybe you guys have low-T while women (lesbians) have high-T or some other combo making the same sex appear attractive to them? Perception is a funny thing isnâ€™t it–you mentioning the lawns etc. and people working night and day to achieve a certain look to their lawn thinking they are going to impress the whole world. And then someone like me (and the ever growing bunch like me–mostly living in urban areas) comes along, takes one look at your lawn, and says to the kids â€œholy crapâ€ donâ€™t step on that thing by accident even–itâ€™s toxic/fluorescentâ€¦;) funnyâ€¦
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