by INFORUM
Conrad: Ruling on military medals dishonors veterans
August 19, 2010 at 7:00 pm in INFORUM
Senator backs penalties for lying about medals
BISMARCK Sen. Kent Conrad on Thursday decried a federal appeals court’s ruling that people can’t be prosecuted solely for lying about their military medals, saying it dishonors veterans who fought for their country. Continue Reading
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As a machine gunner from the jungles of veitnam I never earned a purple heart or a medal of honor but I do feel bad for those people who have to lie to try to impress others. A special thank you to those that are upset by this person who makes up stories.
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Kevin, You must not have been in the service during wartime. If the enemy did not shoot you, your own men in your platoon would have, by your constant stupid comments.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Does it matter? I’ve never served in the military but I still support vets, as we all should.
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It seems like besides me, only Alan K. Johnson is a veteran, who has commented.
To lie about receiving a medal for a heroic deed while serving you country, is not only a disgrace to other veterans who served and lived; it is a disgrace to those who died for our country.
I am sure Allen remembers how bad veterans were treated when returning home from the service, during the Vietnam days. Even if you had a purple heart medal back then, you were still treated like dirt.
I was drafted into the Army, I did not run to Canada; I thought it was my duty to serve my country. I still do not know to this day who treated me more badly, Charlie or many American citizens.
I was not decorated with any medals, however, my medal was the knowledge that I honored my country with my service, even if no one else appreciated the fact.
God Bless our troops and veterans today, and God Bless America.
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Brucealmighty & Alan- From a fellow Vet, thank you for your service. I agree, it’s “not only a disgrace to other veterans who served and lived; it is a disgrace to those who died for our country.”
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Actually Bruce if you were in the RVN you should have 3 medals for that. They are the Vietnam Service, National Defense Service Medal, and the Vietnam Campaign Medal. They were only issued for serving but deserve respect nevertheless. Until a couple of years ago I had only the ribbons but found that you can request the actual medals which will be sent free of charge to you. They won’t send the Vietnam Campaign medal because that was issued by the Rep. of S. Vietnam. Those can be purchased from other sources though.
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A person that has to lie about receiving a military medal is pretty much a bottom feeder. To use that tactic to enrich a political campaign, regardless of the party, is even worse. But, at least it does show the population what to expect, a low life that uses the sweat of others to push him (her) self ahead. I think it would be much better to expose them for what they are than to fine or jail them. I put in 20 years and I would never try to claim a medal I didn’t earn or wasn’t awarded to me. It is a point of honor that some do not seem to have.
For the one Kevin who is wondering what medals Conrad might have earned, what did you earn? I think Bruce said it all when he inferred that you would have been a victim of a fragging.
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I would like to make a statement off subject, being that the Area Voices is closed for comments on our president being Muslim. I do not understand why the Forum would ask people to comment, only to find the comments closed on this article.
I find it appalling that over 45% of the people on the poll think Obama is Muslim. In addition many think he was not born in the USA. I have seen his birth certificate many times on TV.
If one would read President Obama’s family history, one would learn he was raised a Christian and is still a Christian.
People stating that our president is Muslim, are only trying to separate our country once again. Just like Hitler did in Germany to the Jews. Not all Muslims are terrorists just as not all Christians are bigots.
Fox news and all their clonies have been stating Obama is a non-resident and a Muslim, even before he was elected. It is getting worse now as the election gets nearer.
It is just the Far Rights down and dirty politics. To separate and divide the country to get themselves elected. Well I think the people are smart enough today,and their lies will just not fly any longer. Just how stupid do these people think the American citizens are? The American people have just been taken for a ride for so many years, I believe we have figured our their manipulating lies.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I don’t care what your political leanings are. We should all respect and uphold the honor of those who serve our country.
For those who have served, I’m in your debt. Thank you isn’t enough.
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The decision probably shouldn’t be a surprise. Free speech has been upheld numerous times to apply even to those who say despicable things (ask the KKK). Obviously, “free” speech doesn’t mean “consequence free”. It just means it can’t be treated as a crime by the government (a lesson lost on many people… usually conveniently so). It’s an important distinction. While I whole-heartedly endorse the backlash that people who are found to be lying about their military service receive, I wouldn’t be comfortable with criminalizing speech. It’s my view that if you’re not for free speech when you don’t agree with the content, you’re not for free speech.
All that said: A deep, and sincere “thank you” to all veterans for answering the call so I didn’t have to, and while I support the rights of stupid people, I hope that the sensible among us would use their own free speech to shout down those who would denigrate your service.
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Synonyms of deception: cheating, dishonesty, fraud. Not sure how the supreme court came up with it is legal to cheat, be dishonest or commit fraud. Even something as just appearing in public gives those who see the person wearing medals, not awarded to him, may cause those persons to believe that the person is a better person or more capable than he really is. That is FRAUD. Is it legal to appear in public wearing a policeman’s uniform?
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I wonder what the level of damage has to be before a lie for personal gain becomes fraud?
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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/704.html
Apparently, we have a few judges legislating from the bench. The majority opinion “there would be no constitutional bar to criminalizing lying about one’s height, weight, age or financial status on Match.com or Facebook, or falsely representing to one’s mother that one does not smoke, drink alcoholic beverages, is a virgin, or has not exceeded the speed limit while driving on the freeway,” HAS ABSLOUTLEY NOTHING TO DO WITH MILITARY MEDALS OF HONOR. Those judges used a FALLACY to support their decision. GEEZ.
I look forward to seeing this one go to a higher court. Their reasoning is unrelated. That particular case is a blatant example of misrepresentation of military service of an individual for personal gain…fraud. By removing the authority of Congress to PROTECT the dignity of the decorations they bestow upon military members deserving of HONOR, they are issuing a virtual “slap” in the face of every veteran, decorated or not. No longer would there be a point to receiving such honors if people can just LIE about getting them.
I have the purple heart of a man who signed himself up and went off to war at 17. My FIL was a WWII veteran. His years of service and his pride in the USA and it’s military, never waivered, and even in his last days on this earth, those decorations he received for his service meant the world to him. I have everything of his except his uniform. I spent years working with VFW and American Legion members, listening to their stories, sharing TEARS, enjoying their company and respecting the personal sacrifices that they made for US.
This “ruling” also undermines the government’s ability to expect honesty from ANYONE that it deals with. Just imagine the tangle of BS created by LYING about something on a application or form. The government already puts disclaimers on paperwork to discourage fraudulent actions perpetuated by lying about personal information. If the courts try to take away any “bite”, using “free speech” where does that leave us?
“The government shouldn’t be able to sanction speech “solely because it is a lie,†the court’s decision said.” If you think about it, if that were to be true, what good is ANYONE’s word be anymore? Aren’t individuals, INCLUDING the government, entitled to expect or demand the TRUTH from people, or is it only the COURT who gets to demand it under penalties of purgery?
What a sorry ruling. Why am I not surprised that it came out of California.
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“Public discourse requires that citizens are equally free to praise or to condemn their government and its officials, but I can see no value in false, self-aggrandizing statements by public servants. Indeed, the harm from public officials outright lying to the public on matters of public record should be obvious. If the Stolen Valor Act ‘chills’ false autobiographical claims by public officials such as Alvarez, our public discourse will not be the worse for the loss.”
Judge Jay S. Bybee, writing the dissenting opinion
In other news…
Alvarez was previously removed from the Three Valleys Municipal Water District Board in October 2009 and continues to serve a five-year jail sentence for an unrelated felony conviction for insurance fraud. As a result of this felony conviction, Alvarez is ineligible to hold any form of public or elected office for life.
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To my fellow vets here, even those I have had differences of opinion with (little humor) I say thank you for your service. To those that have not served but support those that do, I thank you for your support.
To those of you that don’t understand our view point about this being a slap in the face for those of us that have served and have been wounded either mentaly or physically, I feel sorry for you. Truely.
The First Amendment might protect the liars for now, but what about the theft of valor from those that did serve? If the person received a free drink or meal from anyone at these events that the liar spoke at, is that not theft by deception? Is not that theft of honor and valor from those that deserve it?
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Stupid Repukes want a law for everything. It’s bad that some people have to lie in order to make themselves feel better, but to make it a crime? Please. I don’t think we need to fill our jails and prisons with sad pathetic liars with nothing better to do then to make stories up about getting military medals.
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Uh Nicole, Senator Kent Conrad is a Democrat.
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Uh wes. Show me where I was talking about Kent Conrad?
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Nicole you launched into an attack on Republicans for the same thing that Conrad a Democrat also believes which is that people who misrepresent their military should be prosecuted. It’s a bi-partisan issue and in this case I agree with Senator Conrad. The people claiming military records which are untrue are committing fraud.
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A few years ago I spotted a gravestone in a small Minnesota cemetery where the church is no longer active. In that cemetery was a stone for someone who died and was buried in France during WWII. So I adopted him. Every year now, when a cousin and I go out to decorate family graves, I make sure I have an extra wreath and flag for my guy. I’ve even researched him, and he was a true hero. He died to save his men, to save France, and to save democracy. I’d like more than anything — if I run across someone who FRAUDULENTLY claims to be even half the man this guy was, well, I’d like to smack him over the head with my heaviest cast iron frying pan.
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Grandma, How do you know that vet wasn’t a jerk? I’m not saying he was or wasn’t, but how do you know for sure? Sure he gave his life but what about the stuff that isn’t always public knowledge? How do you know he wasn’t a wife beater or a child molester?
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Cuz, whatever else he might have been or done just really doesn’t matter.
When one gives the ultimate sacrifice in service to their country….that’s kind of ‘it’.
They gave all they had and that’s what should be remembered and honored.
When one willingly sacrifices their own life for someone else, it kind of wipes their slate clean.
It’s even biblical.
John 15:13 (King James Version)
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Thanks for the Bible lesson.
Hmmm. Interesting. A child molester or wife beater serves the military and it glosses over all faults for you?
I’m sorry but I know plenty of men who did what they were ordered to do in the military or went “above and beyond” and received medals and accolades and they couldn’t be any bigger aholes. One “hero” I know was unfaithful to his wife and molested their daughter. Some “hero”. He should be stripped of his medal and his manhood.
No one human being deserves to be put on a pedestal based on one good deed. I don’t care how many lives or heroic actions they did in the military. Thanks for serving though.
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Why is it you chose to suggest that this man is some sort of a criminal? Does that fit some stereotype thing you got going on?
You might want to get that hate thing checked out, it’s clouding your perspective and allowing you to make EXTREME slander per se statements on a person YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW.
BTW, adding the last line doesn’t qualify to buy your sorry rump back out of the corner your words put you in. You can’t possibly make us all believe that you are actually thanking anyone for serving…the rest of your posts clearly states your views…and bias.
Had this been a different era…would you be spitting on soldiers too?
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Rieka, You jumped right over my previous post. You should go back and read it. You might want to get that whole hate thing checked because it’s clouding your perspective.
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Nichole, I got each and every one of your posts in this thread, loud and clear. I didn’t misunderstand any of it.
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Ummm, you may have missed the point. I wasn’t talking about military service in general.
The guy is DEAD. From what grandma posted, he willingly gave up his life for others.
No, I don’t think just serving in the military would give anyone a pass for unacceptable behavior.
I also don’t have any reason to believe the man in question was anything but an honorable man.
I guess I choose to go through life believing most people are hororable, until they prove otherwise.
The alternative would be to suspect that no one was honorable unless they proved otherwise and that wouldn’t make for a very happy life, IMHO.
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You sure look at everything from a negative viewpoint Nicole. I think it’s a fine thing that Grandma is doing. Good for her.
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Totally ‘off topic’ but, seeing some of the comments here I thought I’d share it anyway.
OPEN INVITATION TO ALL VIETNAM VETS!
Vietnam Veterans Welcome Home event at the Head of the Lakes Fairgrounds in Superior, WI from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m.
On Saturday, those ignored and vilified veterans will receive the welcome home they never had.
The event includes an opening ceremony at 9 a.m., a tribute ceremony at 1 p.m., a classic car show, motorcycle ride, fair and photo exchange, a POW/MIA hot air balloon and information booths staffed by community service organizations.
We are really looking to recognize all veterans, but the first priority is the Vietnam veterans.
The core part of it is between 1 and 1:45 p.m. That is when we are going to have our mini-program honoring Vietnam-era veterans.
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Thanks for the heads up! I will pass along the info to my local vets.
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Thank you. It’s been way too long in coming but, I hope this is a case of ‘better late than never’.
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I just got back from the Duluth area. WOW, saw some HOT hotrods and some really NICE bikes! Lot’s of friendly faces too! Sadly, I didn’t get to the event myself, prior scheduling got in the way, but it was certainly a joy to see all the old classic cars and nice bikes out for a ride in the area.
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