by Duluth News Tribune
June 30, 2010 at 5:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
Fifteen-year-old Raheem Vann got a tattoo Wednesday, just in the nick of time. Continue Reading
Tags: Business, Duluth, laws, Minnesota 60 Comments »
“If parents are willing to give permission and be present at the time of tattooing, let them do so,” she said. “It seemed to me that parents and children need to run their own lives.”
Exactly so. The state has no business regulating this parental decision. This is a case of legislators imposing their personal tastes on others.
Full disclosure – I HATE tattoos.
Like or Dislike: 15 8
I think this is a good idea. Too often, kids have skirted the law by bringing an adult friend, relative or non-custodial parent to sign the consent form.
We make all kinds of rules for kids like, they can’t drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or even stay out on the streets late at night so, I don’t see this as much different.
Like or Dislike: 15 11
This is not a rule for kids, this is a rule for their parents.
In Wisconsin a parent may choose to give their own children alcohol and I’m perfectly fine with that.
You and I may agree that that is generally unwise but that is a decision for parents to make, not us.
And there is no law that a child can’t be out late at night with their parents.
So you are right, tattoos for children is no different.
Like or Dislike: 4 13
I personally don’t agree with inking my body up, but that is my personal decision.
I know of many older folks that inked themselves when they were younger and they now regret the decision. But I suppose the same could be said about many of our decisions. Doesn’t mean government has the right to regulate those decisions…
I dislike Big Brother getting involved, but, waiting til eighteen years of age seems O K to me. Too many children are getting tattoos.
Like or Dislike: 14 4
If someone wants to get tattoos, cover their entire face with piercings or dye their hair lime green, that’s all fine with me. However, I don’t think a teenager has the maturity or wisdom to make decisions about permanently altering their body. Waiting until they’re legally adults sounds prudent to me for them and for the tattoo artist. They have the rest of their lives to make mistakes.
Like or Dislike: 16 5
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Leviticus 19:28 (King James Version)
28Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 25
I think it’s pretty telling of our age that we get “thumbs down” even on Bible verses.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 22
Are you kidding? People aren’t allowed to disagree with a Bible verse?
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 9
Of course you can disagree with the Bible but if you’re a Christian why would you?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 16
Well, I wouldn’t expect Christians to disagree. Maybe, just maybe, not everybody’s a Christian, huh?
Like or Dislike: 13 5
I’m not sure why there is no reply option under your commment DanH. I never said everyone is a Christian. But for those of us who are Christians I think not Bastet made a valid point that that in Leviticus God is telling his people to not get tattoos or piercings. I realize that we are no longer bound by all the Old Testament laws but they still seem to be sound advice.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 5 16
I thought Christians believe the Old Testament went out of force the day Jesus died. Unless the New Testament says something about not getting tatoos or piercings, Leviticus (which wasn’t written for Christians anyway) hasn’t applied in over 2000 years.
Like or Dislike: 12 4
Dan you forgot the part about Jesus being raised from the dead–but anyway Levitical laws were written for the children of Israel yes (but really for everyone) for the purpose of maintaining their health and safety. And many of them didn’t make any sense for centuries until bacteria was discovered. With the new covenant under Jesus were are free from the legalism of these laws–but most of them still make very good common sense when it comes to health and safety. Read though them once and see if you can read them even just from that standpoint. Think of things like the plague, or sexually transmitted diseases, or food borne illnesses, etc. Then they will make perfect sense.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 13
Religion is the most common way for populations to self-police themselves to fill whatever status-quo the high priests decide is appropriate for that time. Back in the day, it was also against God’s will if you wore clothing made of multiple fabrics or if you had intercourse on Sunday. When does this all just become a bunch of rules that some guy made up? Furthermore, people who undoubtedly believe in God truly think that they will have the last laugh when all those people who didn’t listen to God, getting tattoos and whatnot, end up burning in hell… I think this is a very selfish, and a very dangerous way to look at the world.
In short: The government, the corporate media, and the church should have no bearing on your personal freedoms. Only you should be in charge of your own decisions.
Like or Dislike: 12 3
Not Bastet and wes h – do you follow everything in the Bible word by word? Do you follow the literal meanings? Just wondering.
Just an observation (not addressed to anyone in particular)…what if someone had posted a passage from the Koran, or written something from a Buddist perspective, or a Wiccan perspective, or any other non-Christian viewpoint….how would you have reacted then? Would you defend it, and call out anyone who opposed it? Or would you roll your eyes and argue? Or maybe you’d fire back with your own Bible verse/Christian take. The conversation between Dan and Wes is interesting because Dan makes a some good points but Wes seems to be stuck in his own view of the world around him.
One of the problems I have with organized religion is that people use it as a pedastal to elevate themselves, and use it as the basis for every conceivable argument – the gist of the arguement ultimately being “I’m right because I believe X, and you’re wrong because you don’t”.
Like or Dislike: 10 2
Actually Colette yes I would respect the views of those other religions as long as they are peaceable and not have the view expressed by some that all infidels should be killed. I particularly appreciated the Buddhist religion because though I don’t believe the same as them it seemed to be a religion of peace and trying to do no harm to others. Islam actually has some of the same foundations as Judaism and Christianity and as long as Muslims wish to live in peace with those of other religions I have no problem with them either.
Like or Dislike: 3 3
Amish people don’t believe in using electricity, Muslims don’t believe in eating pork, and devout Christians don’t believe in getting tattoos. Does this mean that one group is wrong and everyone else is going to Hell? Probably not. People should just care about the people in their own life, and not worry about everyone else. I don’t feel that religious debate has a place in this type of discussion.
and Colette–aren’t you really saying between the lines then on your own statement–that YOU are right, and wes or I have no right to our opinion? or if our opinion doesn’t line up with yours–it doesn’t make sense, but because Dan’s does (in your mind)–then he had “good points”–or his points were ‘right’? I am not using religion to elevate myself–I am using it to elevate God–His ways are higher than ours, His ways always make more sense than ours. If I agree with God I am right. If I disagree with God then I am wrong (on any topic).
Like or Dislike: 1 9
Not bastet – that’s the problem with reading between the lines…NO where in my post did I say that I was right and that you were wrong. And when I said Dan had “good points” I should’ve said “valid points”…again, I did not say they were “right”. You are entitled to your beliefs, but I just ask that people be respectful of others and recognize that not everyone is Christian. And not everyone wants to be converted, preached at, etc.
Your final sentence proves my previous statement…you write that if you agree with God then you are right – how do you know if you agree with God? Because someone else told you so? Because of your interpretation? Gut feeling? So if my pastor, church, etc tells me something different, or I interpret something differently, am I wrong? Does that make you better than me, or does it make your argument stronger than mine? To me, using religion as the basis of any argument is equal to saying, “Because I said so”.
Like or Dislike: 7 2
no Colette–now you are reading things into my statement that I didn’t actually say. I agree that some parts of the Bible are difficult to interpret–and some people seem to take different things out of the same verse. But when I read a verse that says don’t cut yourself up–or mark yourself up–then I take out of it for myself that I shouldn’t do either of those things–and really the rest of the world shouldn’t either–because God’s laws apply to everyone. Following God’s words is not mandatory, He gives us the choice, but to me it is wise. Maybe to you it isn’t. It’s your choice. Tattooing is a personal choice that doesn’t really effect anyone else but the person–but does it really? I do sometimes wonder what goes through the minds of innocent young children who see their parents covered with skulls or other frightening images. To me as stated–it just makes me feel sad….when I see a person covered in tattoos I wonder what is it they are feeling incomplete about without this tattoo?–or why they would choose to do such a permanent or hard to undo thing to themselves? Fads? Or popularity? those are poor reasons as fads quickly change. Look at the photo at the top of this page–I would cry if any of my children would ever do something like that to themselves. Just extremely sad.
Like or Dislike: 1 8
Well, scroll up the page to see my comment to this post. Not sure how it ended up way up there.
nB, how do you feel about people who get the cross or things like “believe” tattooed on themselves? Some would say it’s their way of making a lifetime committment to their faith. From a Christian perspective, is this wrong?
Like or Dislike: 6 2
Merv–itâ€™s not for me to decide. Everything I have been taught says that God looks at the heart, not our outward appearance at all. So tattooing a cross or something on yourself is not going to give you more points with God. If anything God’s words say to not mark yourself–so this would be contradictory–or would indicate that the person has not delved that deeply into the word of God to even have an understanding of this. Can a person who has a tattoo enter the kingdom of heaven? I don’t see why not–but it’s not up to me. I’d say it depends on if God thinks it is a sin or not. I am just literally following the verse in Leviticus, and am just erring on the side of caution and the notion that just like I wouldn’t mar a priceless piece of art, neither would I mar something that I know God places a far greater value on than a finite piece of art–humans.
We are the temple of God, made in His image, and anything we do that compromises the temple is bad. A tattoo is very undoable, so I don’t follow the thinking anyway. Take the picture above. Wouldn’t it have been easier to buy a shirt with this design on it–and then to be able to throw it away when you are tired of it? Permanent is a long time, especially to the very young. I think a good poll would be: do you have a tattoo and if so, do you regret getting it?
Like or Dislike: 1 5
nB – I think we essentially feel the same way about tattoos, or in the case of this article – minors with tattoos (see my post about neck tattoos and employment). We’re just getting too caught up in the reasons for those feelings
Like or Dislike: 4 1
18 states make 18 the magic tattoo age and two states have 21 minimum age, one of which has a parental consent for someone over 18 but under 21. The rest of the US states do allow for minor to obtain tattoos with either in person consent or written at a variety of ages under 18.
If my kids aren’t juvenile delinquents, stuck in the social services system, or flunking school, the state really has no business usurping my parenting rights and role. If my kids aren’t breaking laws and causing trouble, why should they have their wings clipped because some other kids are out of control and making poor choices?
Like or Dislike: 9 8
I don’t know why anyone would want a tatoo or body piercing, but I do believe that irresponsible parents make for bad role models.
Like or Dislike: 11 5
Does having a tattoo, as a parent, indicate a bad role model for children or irresponsibility?
Like or Dislike: 4 7
So what should be done to parents with tattoos?
Should the government force them to have their tattoos removed?
Should the kids be removed from the home?
What happens to kids whose parents have tattoos as opposed to ones that don’t?
Like or Dislike: 5 6
What if the person got a tattoo prior to becoming a parent? Should those who get tattoos be forever banned from procreating? The loving, tolerant views of Christians never cease to amaze me.
Dan I don’t think a person who has a tattoo should be banned from anything. Mostly I just think it’s sad. When I see a tattoo on a person the same sad feeling comes over me that would come over me if I walked into an art museum and noticed that someone had taken a sharpie and drawn on a priceless piece of art. The bigger or more hideous the drawing, the more sad I would be…
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 1 12
Thinking it’s sad, and making a law are two different levels of action.
I’d like to ask again, what “worse” things happen to a child of parents with tattoos that doesn’t happen to children of parents without them? It was said that it’s irresponsible and a bad example, so I am curious how do those manifest themselves in the children?
Are they more likely to get poor grades if their parents have tattoos?
More likely to rob a liquor store or serve time?
More likely to earn a college degree?
Which is it?
Like or Dislike: 4 4
Jack–children are like sponges. They watch and absorb everything we are doing. If we drink or smoke, children are likely to drink or smoke. If we go to the lake every Sunday, or to church, children are likely to do that too. If we yell at others or are kindâ€¦go to college or donâ€™t go to collegeâ€¦.well, you can see where this is going. If you have a bunch of tattoos your kids are likely to as wellâ€¦maybe you have a bird or a heart or God knows what on you, and you think itâ€™s fine. Maybe your kidâ€™s think it would be fine to have a permanent picture of a bloody skull with a knife coming out of itâ€™s eye right in the middle of their forehead. Who decides? And wouldnâ€™t a decision like that disappoint you? I know it would me. Sometimes if you make one important big decision, you donâ€™t have to waste a lot of time choosing between a bunch of crazy little ones.
Ok. My father was a tattoo artist. He was a jack of all trades, and also spent the early years of his life as a minister, and the latter years as a Buddhist priest. He had many tattoos and piercings and raised me right. I also have many tattoos and piercings. My daughter goes to a private Christian school. So for you to simply say that having tattoos make s a bad role model is just simply ignorant. Its the person that you are that makes you a role model, not your adornments. That’s like saying that if I decide to wear a sweater in the summer I’m setting a bad example. I mean sure, If you’re dressed like a hooker you would be, but get real. Most parents wouldn’t dress like that, unless they really were hookers. And THEN you could call them bad parents. But a tattoo does not a bad parent make.
Like or Dislike: 9 4
Judge not lest ye be judged. Tattoos have NOTHING to do with whether or not someone is a good role model.
Like or Dislike: 4 2
well, if that’s the case–I’ll send two teachers to teach in your child’s grade school–one is completely covered in tattoos–with horrifying images, and the second person has no tattoos. I’ll choose the second person, instead of forcing my child to have to look at violent or pornographic images all day long….
Like or Dislike: 2 1
I work with a lot of families where I would not trust the parents to make reasonable or responsible choices in raising a goldfish, let alone a child. As a previous poster wrote, this rule is not for children, it’s for the parents. Research shows that the brain changes significantly after age 18, and I personally don’t think that anyone younger than 21 should be allowed to make the decision to get a tattoo. Unfortunately, I’ve seen too many parents who think it’s cool to let their kids get one at 16.
Like or Dislike: 14 3
As an HR manager, I love tattoo’s, as they make my job much easier. They allow me to quickly weed out the idiots and undesireables without having to invest time in some one we do not want to hire.
Like or Dislike: 11 15
People with tattoos are idiots? You shouldn’t be the HR manager of a barbie house.
Like or Dislike: 13 8
My sister is a doctor, my other sister is a lawyer, and I’m an engineer and a writer. We all have tattoos. But you’re just an HR manager. Maybe you should get a tattoo?
Like or Dislike: 16 10
Is your tattoo, or your sisters’ tattoos on the neck, forearm, or wrist? Are they typically visible? How much area are they covering? I’m guessing that the HR manager was referring to visible tattoos, or rather large, distracting ones. And your jab about “just an HR manager” was rather rude. I’m glad that you feel you’re superior…you don’t know what his or her background or education is.
Like or Dislike: 8 11
I’m not sure where my response ended up, but here it is again…
My youngest sister has one on her lower arm, but none are â€typically visible.â€
My jab was less offensive than his which said people with tattoos are idiots and not worth giving a job to wasn’t it, Colette?
But I noticed you had no problem with that particular insult. Is that a true statement?
By what scale do you judge your insults? Some must be apparently less offensive than others, so Iâ€™m curious.
Like or Dislike: 8 6
I find yours to be more offensive because you are calling out an individual. I have a tattoo, and I didn’t take offense to Hap’s post. Hap is stating an opinion, and perhaps a fact, but not directing it at any one person. If Hap’s business does not want people with tattoos representing their company, so be it. Tattoos then do make his/her job easier. And as much as we all like to think that we’re open-minded and non-judgemental, many people do jump to conclusions and form negative first impressions when they see a tattoo. For me, it’s when I see a neck tattoo. So if Hap’s opinion is that people who walk into an interview with a tattoo showing are idiots – than that’s his/her opinion. In many cases, I might agree, or at least consider it bad judgement on their part.
Like or Dislike: 5 7
Then I’m free to consider him an idiot as well for not considering potential candidates who may be smarter, better employees than the non-tattooed one he ends up hiring instead.
Also, if that employee wouldn’t have direct client contact as part of normal job duties, by law, he’s not within his rights to discriminate based on appearance.
Well, then the HR manager should have specified “visible tattoos,” and not just lump all people with tattoos together. Maybe the jab was rude, but Hap initiated the rudeness by referring to people with tattoos as idiots.
I’m pretty comfortable with my knowledge of health and safety precautions. I think I’ll just wing it.
I personally don’t think people change a whole lot after puberty. A tattoo won’t suddenly turn a prom queen into a gangster, or anything. Kids raised by prom queens will likely become prom queens, and kids raised by gangsters will likely become gangsters. This is like banning youth from wearing baggy jeans or listening to heavy metal music, just because some people find those things indecent.
On the other hand, I have seen some pretty regrettable tattoos on people who thought it was funny at the time.
I agree with you that a tattoo won’t change anyone, but research shows that judgement does change after puberty. Something that a 16 or 18 year old thinks is cool now may seem like a regretable mistake at 30. Factor in peer pressure, or the want to fit in and teens will make all kinds of silly decisions. I remember all too well thinking how cool a tattoo or piercing would appear to others.
Like or Dislike: 5 2
So is altruism really a valid way to protect our citizens? We deem them incapable of being mature enough to make a decision about getting a tattoo, so we outlaw them from doing it? Is that really the appropriate response??
Like or Dislike: 6 4
Maybe so, but peer pressure doesn’t go away after you graduate. As an adult, there are all sorts of pressures to get married, own a home, get a high-paying job, own an automobile, go to church, keep up on certain sports, dress professionally, look down upon certain people, not get a noticeable tattoo, etc etc etc….
Of course, people’s judgment changes over time, but the sad reality is that their place in society usually doesn’t. If you don’t fit-in in high school, you probably won’t fit-in with the status quo as an adult either. So honestly, who am I to say, “No, don’t get a tattoo. I don’t think it’s a smart decision for you. I may not know you, but I know what’s best for your life.” Who cares? Let people do what they want.
Like or Dislike: 4 3
This article isn’t about not getting tattoos, it’s about not letting minors get tattoos. For me, it’s in the same category as truancy laws, seatbelt laws, underage drinking laws, etc. For the majority of the population, it’s a non-issue – something that will never affect most of us nor will it affect those around us, so why take it personally (e.g. “my rights are being trampled”). For those it does affect, chances are that it’s a positive affect even though it may not seem like it right now. Unfortunately, there are parents who do not make good decisions – meaning decisions that may negatively affect their children’s lives, and those parents need some guidance. I’m talking more widely than just tattoos.
“The rest of the world shouldn’t either.” Wow.
One reason a young person might want to think twice about getting a tattoo is if they are considering a career in the military. Until 2006 I don’t think any visible tattoos were allowed. The military has since softened it’s stance but anyone wanting to join had best read the new rules before getting a tattoo. There are still pretty limited allowances for tattoos. My son has been in the South Dakota Air National Guard for 10 years and when he joined he could have no visible tattoos. You aren’t allowed what they consider offensive tattoos anywhere on your body.
That is a good (valid) point Wes. I was in the military for 8 years and the rule was that tattoos couldn’t be visible when in uniform…meaning none on the hands, neck, face, etc. I don’t know what they are now.
Colette they do allow some on the back of the hands and the back of the neck but they can’t go more than so high on the neck. None are allowed on the face. They spell it out a little more precisely than that but I’d have to look it up. By the way it wasn’t me who gave you a thumbs down on your comment.
LOL!! How do I get a thumbs down for saying I was in the military? Or for saying that there were regulations about tattoos? Odd.
When I was in the Marine Corps, they frowned on any tattoos. If it didn’t show when you were in uniform, they tolerated it. But they didn’t like it.
2003 Harris Poll on tattoos http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo_facts.htm
REGRET HAVING A TATTOO?
“Do you ever regret getting a tattoo?”
Base: Currently Have a Tattoo
WHY REGRET HAVING A TATTOO?
“Why do you regret getting a tattoo?”
Base: Yes, Regret Getting a Tattoo
Because of the person’s name in the tattoo 16
Don’t like the way it looks 12
Faded/unclear over time 11
It was stupid 11
It is visible even when I don’t want it to be 8
It was a rash decision 3
Got an infection/disease 2
I’m a different person now 2
Effects my job/getting a job 2
Like or Dislike: 0 1
The tattoo and facial piercing topic has provided grist for spirited debate my daughter (age 15) and me, well before the new law was enacted. My rule was no way, no how, before age 21 ( OK I know the 21 thing was a stretch, but I think it might have worked). That said, Minnesota needs another stupid law like it needs a hole in the head. Land of 10,000 Nannies. Sheesh.
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