June 22, 2010 at 5:00 pm in INFORUM
A 23-year-old man was charged Tuesday in Cass County District Court with gross sexual imposition, accused of having sex with a passed-out woman on a Fargo bike trail on Monday afternoon.
Tags: bike, Fargo, rape 80 Comments »
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I would think that the mosquitoes would have been punishment enough for this poor guy !!
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So if he had been the one to pass out instead of her, would she have been charged with rape?
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Pete–a woman can’t rape a man. There is no such thing as an unwilling man 😉
(in the heterosexual world that is)
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Ok–I hate to break it to the bunch of you giving me the thumbs down on this one –but I frankly don’t think it is even physically possible for one woman to rape one man if he doesn‘t ‘cooperate’… Number one just in the area of physical strength–most men could just fight off and overcome most women. Number two–you’ll just have to use your imagination as I’m sure you can’t get into detail here. So, if men are raped–it would have to be by another man–as women don’t have what it takes physically to get the job done…. forcibly… which is the definition of rape.
And I suppose I can take back part of my “unwilling man” line–only to the extent that somebody like Brad Pitt might be unwilling with a less than attractive partner…otherwise I stand by my statement.
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not Bastet If as you say, you have to get the job done forcibly for it to be called rape, then this is not a case of rape is it.
I think a woman could rape a man. Is using a gun not rape?
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antipalin– yes, it is rape. Because if she is out cold–this was basically being done TO her, not WITH her. Rape is a sex crime–what does that have to do with guns? I already told you why a woman can’t rape a man…I don’t think it’s that hard to follow. But yes, I suppose in one fraction of a millimeter of a percent it is possible for a GANG of women to hold down a man and rape him with an object–but is that technically rape then? Don’t know–I hope that never happens to anyone–male or female.
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I think that using an object to force the act is considered rape. One does not have to have the anatomy( or use it) to commit the crime.
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I think this line of replies kind of says it all about how your opinion is formed not Bastet. According to your reasoning as you explain it here in response to my original question, no, the woman would not have been charged with rape had the circumstances been reversed because according to you that’s next to impossible.
That is a very sexist, uninformed, and biased view of sexual assault.
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Pete–according to your post on June 29, 2010 at 8:49 AM–“That is a very sexist, uninformed, and biased view of sexual assault”
well, then sir, since I am so very uninformed I would like you to explain to me in detailed sequence how exactly an average sized woman would take down and forcibly rape an average sized man without an (insert word I probably can‘t insert here)? Why don’t you even make it more interesting and describe how a small woman would take down a 250 lb. construction worker? Go on google and give me some statistics of men being raped by women–not by men mind you –but women. I do believe that men and boys are raped all the time–by other men. And could an older woman or girl touch or do something inappropriate to a younger smaller weaker male, yes, I suppose if that person was mentally ill. But this story is about adults–and we have gotten off onto side notes about bars and drunkenness. Find me some statistics where this exact scenario in this story is reversed.
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Seriously, are you paying any attention? The woman was not overpowered. In the opposite scenario, the woman would not have to overpower the man as you keep insisting.
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Pete– this is for your post of June 29, 2010 at 5:15 PM–because this will more than likely end up in the wrong spot again:
I don’t think you have an ability to read and process a sentence. I wasn’t referring to the people in this story. I was referring to your ridiculous statement where you claim women have the ability to sexually assault men. Get it? I have to get off this page. I don’t have any training in how to develop reading comprehension in others. Good bye.
It sounds like it was consentual- so what if she passed out during? They had both been drinking, they both started having sex. He probably didn’t even realize she had passed out. Leave the poor guy alone with the rape charges. I can see public fornication for both of them but that’s it. Doesn’t law enforcement have bigger fish to fry?
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how awful to be blaming this woman! there are so many things that the forum did not report on in this tiny article-did she know the man? how long was she awake before she passed out? did he slip her something to make her pass out? obviously you can tell if someone is passed out while you are having sex, so why would you continue? he was taking advantage of a woman in a vulnerable situation. no wonder why women don’t press charges in rape cases as often as they should.
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Nobody is “blaming” the woman. We are questioning the charges since it was consensual.
You are correct in that all the facts are not known. But you are making assumptions as well.
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perhaps it was consensual at first, but once someone is passed out, it is no longer consensual.
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We don’t know when she passed out. Unless he has confessed to that it is his word against hers, and I doubt either one is very credible.
About all do know for certain is that it started out as consensual and she was passed out when police arrived. Which means she is still subject to public fornication charges.
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Cass I thought you had a good comment–rape is a crime where the woman gets victimized twice, once when it happens and secondly with public scrutiny.
Hot debate. What do you think? 15 24
Wrong place to perform sex, but rape? Is this just a charge without any input from the girl. Or did the girl when sober wake up and say to save her soul and parents from knowing cry rape… We will find out in court once again after hours and hours of wasted time in court that the girl probably is ashamed and is worried about her reputation and so forth, how stupid. This girl needs to do the right thing and come clean, keep this out of court if it was consensual as the story claims. Apparently others must have viewed and seen they were going at it. Wasted time in courts that could better serve other more important sever crimes other than casual drunken sex.
Hot debate. What do you think? 38 40
Your assumptions astound me. I am not even going to bother quoting which part of your post was offensive – as it all was. It is with attitudes such as yours that the crime of rape is still treated like it is of no account. Without even knowing anything other than the little bit included in this article you have made some broad assumptions about women in particular that I find very offensive, and if you are speaking directly on point to this article I find it even more offensive.
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Well if this turns out another false accusation than this girl needs to go around the schools as a community function for her misdeads and bad decisons and talk about the negative effects of drinking and boyfreind. If the guy is guilty he can join the rest of the muten heads in prison. This will all come out real soon, trust me, if your wrong I want to put up a wager, your monicer picture will have to be a picture of a donkey. You can choose mine. I say he is not guilty, lets make the wager.
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Donna the wager is for one month only on the moniker change.
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A false accusation of rape can be as traumatic to a man as rape is to a woman. It is part of his life forever afecting his ability to trust other. The accusation also never go away there are some who will think him guilty no matter what the evidence to the contrary. It will effect his relationship, where he lives and even his job because in this day of the internet the accusation can not be put back in the box. Men have committed suicide because of this type of accusation. True false accusation are not common but they happen more often than you think.
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Donna–you also had a very good comment. You are right on so I don’t know what is wrong with some of the people on this page (maybe rapists in the pen are clicking the thumbs down button on people standing up against the crime of rape?)
anyway, I hope this ends up in the right point in the thread as my other one (to Cass) did not–and there was no reply box for my reply to Glen.
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Do drunk women often walk along te bike path? too many signs point to the obvious in this situation. and dont start the nonsense about how it becomes nonconsensual just because one of them passes out. If they were both drunk enough to start the act in public then they both deserve to get the same punishment and charges. Theres a HUGE difference between Rape and idiotic behavior, quit trying to defend the female when its obvious that they were both at fault. it is demeaning to the women who truly suffer when they are attacked for real.
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Heck, my wife falls asleep during sex all the time. Does that make me a rapist? Sometimes it is better when she is asleep.
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The rape charged will be thrown out in court, to much made of this. OOOh no they had sex. Tomorrow I guess we will hear the girls side of the story. Or maybe she is just going with what the police say. Pick and choose your playboys with a little more objectiviity, usuallyt he guy that has no home is a dirt bag and a drifter, don’t always go for looks, if you do, don’t cry rape.
Hot debate. What do you think? 19 26
Big Red Hiney–that was funny but I think most women have experienced this… It is usually followed up with a tired: “what the heck are you doing?” especially if the woman STARTED out being asleep….
but you know if the woman does NOT want to do it–it is still rape (even in marriage).
I think this sleep walking sex starts in bars–where there is an entire cross section of men all over the world crawling around –trying to size up who is going to pass out first (wait a minute–I think it is like all of them 😉
I suppose they figure the odds are better if one of them (not themselves) is out cold….
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The odds increase as soon as a dimwitted female goes to the bar without a plan and then gets completely drunk out of her mind.
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Capt. Amerika–I just noticed your remark–which was extremely sexist and derogatory not to mention a double standard. Do men need a plan when going to bars so that they don‘t end up being some guy’s project for the evening?
Anyway, the “dimwitted female” you mentioned is probably getting drunk out of her mind because there is a 200 lb. guy hovering over her demanding she drinks the collection of unsolicited drinks in front of her. I think most men don’t even realize how torqued some of these guys can get if you turn them down or your plan is to go home alone. Alcohol affects different people differently and some guys especially get mean when they are drunk. So you play nice and accept the drink, but then you can’t get rid of them, or it turns weird when they decide it’s time to cash in. I’d advise women to avoid the whole headache, keep your wits about you and not end up being the subject of a page like this. Go to a movie instead 😉
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Congrats! you just said the exact same thing i did except you made it sound as if the woman has no choice but to get blasted at the bar because a man wants them to. a guy doesnt really need a safety plan unless there has been a rash of man rape going on that im unaware of. if youre going to show up at the bar with a miniskirt and no underwear and dance on the tables i think you should seriously consider having someone to look out for your well being since you are obviously an attention addict that cant figure out why guys lust after you but dont respect you.
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And you know as a follow up would this even be a story if she had not pressed charges? Because wouldn’t she have had to have pressed charges for this to be in the paper as a rape? And who would press charges if a rape had NOT occurred? A huge percentage of women don’t report other even more violent rapes in the first place due to humiliation and fear. So I think women making something like rape up is probably less than a fraction of one percent.
Somehow there is a perception in society that if you are passed out you are fair game. Which is not fair–and which it is why it is not a good idea engage in any activity which will cause you to pass out …but on a bike trail in front of the public? Now that was weird. The whole story might be hard for either one of them to prove if they were (both?) on some sort of a substance.
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I believe in cases like rape the county can press charges on their own.
Somebody can correct me if I’m wrong here.
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I think either way you look at this, there are a LOT of unanswered questions. For instance, was she aware that she was even having sex with him in the first place when she was still awake. It says it was consensual but by whos statements? Also was it this woman who requested the rape charges?? In some instances, the police can charge the person without someone requesting it due to the law. So I think before we take sides, we would need to know the whole story.
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This is a reply to Glen’s comment about men being falsely accused of rape (there is no “reply” button below his comment)….
anyway, I have seen cases on tv where they have imprisoned or accused the wrong person–also terrible, and yes that certainly does or can ruin that persons life–HOWEVER, one cannot overlook the huge numbers of rapes that occur every year–“because we might get the wrong guy” ?? I don’t think your comment applies to this story–as the identity of the man is not in question–nor are his actions as there were evidently witnesses— otherwise why did the police show up–and why was he charged then?
I guess no one has to worry about anybody accusing them of anything if they don’t take a half-conscious woman out on a public bike trail and attempt to have sex with her in front of witnesses….do they?
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My reply is simple he has NOT been convicted yet. If the facts are as stated it is very likely that he will be. My comment was more general in nature, The large majority of people, when they see any sex crime accusation in the paper, want to lynch the person. Let the justice system do its job. Trust the juries judgment and accept it. That is how our system is supposed to work and seldom does.
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Um Glen, we want to “lynch” people who commit sex crimes because sex crimes are sick and degrading. To imagine being violated like that is beyond me. Anyone who takes their anger out by sexually violating someone else needs to be castrated because they are a danger to all of us.
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No you want to lynch people who have NOT YET BEEN CONVICTED! There is a huge difference between an accusation and a conviction. I have no problem with life sentences for first time offenders. But wait until convicted. As far as the castration idea for sex crimes, it does not prevent the person from committing additional sex crimes because they are crimes of control. now if you want to do it call it what it is simple revenge. Similar for chopping off a thief’s hand for stealing.
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The fact that you can stand up for the rights of those who sexually abuse women and children, frightens me. And your darn right if anything ever happened to myself or my child at the hands of some sick perv, I would want revenge!!!!
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I am not standing up for the rights of anyone who abuse other people, sexual or not. I am standing up for the rights of someone who has not been convicted of anything yet. As for your statement of revenge…. that would only deprive your child of a parent when they need one most. That would tramatize your child twice. As a survivor myself I know what I am talking about.
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Glen, you know what the disconnect with you is? The fact that you are reading this story, and then siding with the man. Who can read this story and think: “gee, it’s too bad they are accusing this guy of rape, he needs a day in court”– which is how your comments are coming across. The fact is the woman was so drunk she passed out. He wasn’t. He was able to finish what he started from the sounds of it and even mess with re-dressing the lady. She probably didn’t even have a clue what was going on in the first place. Rape is a serious charge. I don’t think you can just charge someone with a crime like that without cause, so someone must have witnessed something.
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So many misconceptions, so little time.
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not Bastet I am siding with justice and no one else. You are so biased in your views that you dont even want the system to work. Any person, no matter what the charge or evidence, deserves their day in court. That is one of the founding principals of this country.
If we dont have that we will be back to a place where you can just be locked up forever without ever having a chance to defend yourself. That includes you, your father, brother, son and husband. All deserve their day in court. You are it seems in favor of denying that where you find the crime they are accused of personally disgusting. You are acting on gut emotion only. That always leads to innocent people being condemed.
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Glen, I don’t know where you are getting your ideas. You say I am biased because I am siding with the woman. I say YOU are biased because you are siding with the man. We’re equal. Just because your view is opposite doesn’t mean you are right. I tend to side with the victim in most cases. If you feel like siding with the accused I can’t help you. And where are you coming up with this “day in court” stuff? I never said he couldn’t have a day in court. It sounds like he will get this opportunity. By all means he should appear in court.
And just as a side note and having nothing to do with this case, I also know of various courts and individual judges that are biased, so even having a day in court doesn’t necessarily mean anything either. For some people who are being discriminated against, it is the last place that they can obtain any justice, especially if the judge personally knows one party in a case and sides with him. In a case like that how does the victim ever get any justice? God is always on the side of a victim–never on the side of a perpetrator. If a person can’t get any justice here, they will in the next life.
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not Bastet I am not sideing with anyone. What part of haveing a trial dont you understand. I dont see you as on the side of the woman. I see you on the side of personal vengence and vigilantiism. I have worked with victims of sexual assault for many years. Revenge does not help them but justice can. Revenge leaves them with guilt, anger and festering pain. Justice can help them get past all of that. Revenge just leaves them empty inside.
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Glen–are you actually reading my comments? Where are you getting anything out of any of them that someone can’t have a trial? I already said: by all means he should have a trial. I didn’t say a word about revenge–you did. I think you have me confused with the other poster on here: inmyopinion.
You are losing me on your whole post…and “vigilantiism“? You will have to explain that one as well…???
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and really Glen, when I read your posts more closely, none of them make sense. On one hand you say you have worked with victims of sexual assault. On the other hand most of your posts read like you are on the side of the man….which one is it? They are confusing to read. I am always on the side of the victim–be it a man or a woman–and for them to obtain justice. Justice IS their revenge. In 9.999 times out of 10 in cases of sexual assault a female is victimized by a male. And I have nothing but the utmost of disgust for a pedophile who victimizes boys OR girls–now in those cases I believe the guys should be shot. I don’t think ANY rapists should ever be allowed to go free as they cannot be “cured” and are likely re re-offend. Anybody who is capable of raping someone once is likely to do it again.
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not Bastet I will not post concerning this again. Not once I repeat Not once did I take a side in this other than the side of justice. While it is true that most sexual assaults are commited by males it is not quite as lopsided at you claim. In this case you seem to have determined that the man is guilty. My point is and has always been unless you are on the jury it is not your place or my place to judge the case. That is the job of the jury. You can be sympathetic to a victim without being venomous to the accused. I have seen the damage that is done, that still does not make me throw out our justice system. I once had a female probation officer comment to me that there were two types of males…. those who were convicted sex offenders …. and those males who had not been caught yet.
Do you employ the same outlook? From your posts I am concerned that you may.
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Glen–It is clear that you have not been able to read and process what I have written. You are making a bunch of assumptions about me that are not even close to my thoughts on this topic.
Here’s one of YOUR statements: “My reply is simple he has NOT been convicted yet. If the facts are as stated it is very likely that he will be.” By making this statement, aren’t you doing exactly what you are accusing me of?
And I don’t have the same outlook as the officer you mentioned. I just have an awareness about how the world works based upon the experiences I have had. A rabbit is probably more concerned about walking across a field of coyotes than a wolf is. Similarly, women view the topic of rape differently than men do. Men tend to minimize rape as is obvious from the posters on this page. So Glen, if it is venomous to stand up against rape–then I am venomous. I would argue that it is horrendously venomous to NOT stand up for the victims of rape. Certainly it is odd to state the history you stated but then make not even one remark about protecting the rights of VICTIMS of crimes like this (?) but instead your first thought is that someone needs to protect the rights of the ACCUSED. It’s backwards. Maybe your statement about husbands, sons, etc. needs to be modified to include what your thoughts would be if your daughter or wife was drugged or plied with booze until she was unconscious and then taken advantage of out on a public bike path in full view of anyone passing by?
You made mention of suicide in your very first post. I think it would be horribly unfortunate for a man to be wrongly accused of ANY crime, and then for him to end up committing suicide as a result of the accusations is even more horrendous. Similarly, I also think it is horrible that hundreds or maybe thousands of women who have actually lived through the trauma of rape have ended up committing suicide due to the inability to live with the ever present feeling of violation that never goes away.
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so how will you respond when you find out it was consensual and she just passed out and was trying to stay out of trouble by lying? will you then come back in here and apologize to the guy for insinuating his guilt? Glen is just pointing out that you cant hang the guy because a woman makes a claim. women have lied before believe it or not.
Why aren’t there any reply buttons underneath Capt. Amerika’s ridiculous comments? Well, I’ll put both replies here then.
Capt. Amerika-(this is to your comment above) ….You are sick. And how are you jumping to your ridiculous conclusions about women in miniskirts? Were you there? First of all I can’t say that I’ve ever seen this type of crap going on–have you checked the weather around these parts? What females do you know who are showing up in an outfit like that and dancing on tables? Other than maybe women employed in the oldest profession. And even if they were- are you saying that if you show up in this outfit that means you just have to accept that someone is going to rape you? Ridiculous. If I use your logic then men who walk around naked in locker rooms should be set upon by gay rapists–and deserve to be raped.
Men are breathing down your neck at bars and making all kinds of assumptions whether you are dressed like this or not. And I didn’t say anything about a woman having to get blasted at a bar–I said there are usually guys trying to pour drinks down your throat–and some of them get mad if you don’t pay up later–then if you don’t accept drinks from somebody–then those guys are off to the side mad too–either way a woman would have to watch out for herself, which is why they travel in packs if you haven’t noticed.
And to your statement directly above: No, the question is how will YOU respond if the guy is convicted? I won’t have to worry about apologizing for anything–more than likely YOU will have to think how YOU will respond and apologize to the lady for stating that she is a liar? You act like only women lie. So do men. Your angle is even worse, because not only are you giving the accused the benefit of the doubt–you are actually blaming the victim.
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I don’t find anything confusing about Glen’s posts. I do find the constant comparisons to stories having little to nothing to do with this case a bit off base.
The only facts we know are that they were both drunk and the sex started out consensually.
Before calling for castrations and life sentences, I think people need to wait for the facts. Glen is absolutely correct in saying that false accusations can be very damaging to men, and they are not uncommon. And as somebody else mentioned, even if the sketchy facts are completely true, there is a very big difference between what happened here and women who actually get attacked. We don’t let drunk drivers off the hook because they were too drunk to know what they were doing. So you can’t make the claim that drunk women can’t make decisions about sex because the drinking is their choice.
All sex crimes can’t be lumped together just because they involve sex, that’s ridiculous. But that seems to be what everybody wants to do.
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I guess my powers of observation just arent what they used to be. two people drunk off their rears having sex in the middle of the day. Yep, youre probably correct not bastet, i’m sure the guy was drunk and hiding out figuring that a drunk woman was likely gonna walk by. what are the odds. and you are not getting my point on the way women dress, you can ignore it or beratre it all you want but its true and deep down inside you know it is. women who dress like that are doing so to attract men. and when they do attract the wrong man it becomes completely his fault. not saying that its right or that he shouldnt be punished for the crime, i’m just saying it would be nice if the women wouldnt put it all out there and then complain when they get jeffery dahmer instead of Brad Pitt. you yourself said and i quote “either way a woman would have to watch out for herself, which is why they travel in packs if you haven’t noticed.” Which i believe is the very point you called me out on earlier when i said they should have a plan. You seem to have a real problem with my view that a woman should be careful, dress appropriately and have a plan to keep her safe when she goes out. why? i’m trying to save a woman from the pain and suffering, you seem to believe that a woman can just go do whatever she pleases and its okay because the guys are responsible for understanding what her intentions are. Thats kind of an invitation for trouble in my book. it wasnt but last year that i read where a female and a male were sentenced for having sex in the bar in which the woman was dancing on tables in a miniskirt without any under garments and that was just down the road here in ND. So yes, it does happen. My discussion about what they are wearing at the bar in no way means it was okay it just means that any person with common sense can see when a person is attracting attention that could turn out bad and if you cant see that youre blind. so no, i am not blaming the victim, in this particular article i believe they will both be found guilty of sex in public.
If you have sex in the middle of the afternoon while passed out drunk on a bike trail….you might be a redneck.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 32 4
It has really been an interesting experiment to post views about sympathies for rape victims on this page. And what an eye opener for the public–look at the big number of thumbs down on women’s posts–now look at the men’s numbers. It’s very telling about what most men’s views really are about this subject.
And yes, it is true–none of us really knows the exact details of what went on. But when I read a story about a car or a fire, I can assume that a car or a fire were involved in the story. Similarly, when I read a story that says the words “rape” “charged” and “arrested” I can take out of it that there was enough information to arrest a guy and charge him with rape. Has anyone thought that the GUY might have said the sex started out as consensual ? Men and women don’t always agree about what is consensual–and how could anyone get the view of someone who is out cold? Everyone is jumping down my throat for making assumptions–I say you are doing the same thing.
I always knew there was a reason that many rape victims are afraid to report this crime or even tell others about it, but I think the sentiment and attitude on this page really summarizes it best. The one guy likes to keep pulling the word “justice” out. I wonder what kind a justice a woman would ever be able to get if a bunch of men were in the jury? This page should be required reading for the bar crowd.
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Your perspective skews your bias. An accusation is all that is required, not DNA evidence and witnesses. The Grand Jury does not require specific damning evidence of the crime in order to present charges.
Also, you cannot logically assume that because charges were filed, that the man “must be guilty of something.” That is absurd, and the law simply cannot work that way, nor should you encourage the air of guilt to be lowered, based on your suspicions and generalizations of rape cases prior.
The woman also cannot withdraw consent to create a rape situation after sex is underway without other circumstances being present. I.E. she cannot decide that what she is doing is a mistake and one more rhythmic gyration determines an unconsented sex act and therefore a rape. That also is not, and cannot be condoned.
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Jack–your perspective also skews your bias. And your ability to read evidently. Take your sentence: “the man “must be guilty of something.” which was supposedly a quote from me–when in actuality I said this: “Similarly, when I read a story that says the words “rape” “charged” and “arrested” I can take out of it that there was enough information to arrest a guy and charge him with rape.”
And your other ridiculous observation–I see what you are getting at–however, it is possible to be in the middle of something–and then it can turn off into a non-mutual direction–at that point it can turn into rape if he forcibly continues and she says stop…so you are wrong on that one also.
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I see a lot of thumbs down for posts that are accusatory or attacking without any supporting evidence. That has nothing to do with what gender posted them, you’ll find that to be the case throughout these pages.
Had this been about a man attacking a random woman on the trail and forcibly raping her, I think you would find people’s sympathies to be more like yours. But this appears to be a much different situation.
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Pete–not really–look more closely at the posts. And yes–to YOU it APPEARS one way–to women it appears another. You are basically saying YOU are right because that appears that way to you–but because it appears to me to be the opposite then I am wrong. That is the ultimate in biased.
And I see plenty of thumbs down for you–does that mean that your “posts are also accusatory or attacking without any supporting evidence?” Or here’s a thought–maybe they just don’t agree with you??
You see, your sarcastic reply is getting mostly thumbs down.
Of course not everybody agrees with me, but every single one of my posts here prior to this one have pretty convincing positive feedback. But that’s beside the point.
The reason the case appears differently to me is that I’m going by the limited facts reported and nothing more. I don’t consider that “biased”. You and some others want to throw the book at the guy without knowing the facts. That’s pretty much the definition of bias.
I really don’t understand how you can imply that this case is the same as the example I gave.
Like or Dislike: 17 5
Pete–my post was not sarcastic. I meant it sincerely. And at this point I don’t even know what “example” you are talking about. And I have never at any time stated outright that he was guilty–nor have I said he had no right to a trial–he does. The entire bunch of you has done nothing but make assumptions about my views.
I will say this–your puffed up comment about your “pretty convincing positive feedback” was ineffective as far as I am concerned. Anytime you join in an attack of a poster–decent people can see right through that. Despite the number of men sticking up for each other with their pack mentality here on this page–the only thing I can see that any of you accomplished today was in creating a new enemy–me.
I have a picture on here of a cat (and yes probably the personality of a cat) but I have the memory of an elephant.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 16
And just to clarify, I’m not sure what you are claiming I am “right” about. Nobody but two people know what really happened. If the facts come out that he is indeed guilty of rape, I’m not going to defend his actions.
But I will defend his right to a fair trial, if that’s what it comes to. Just as I would defend her right to make the accusation if she does believe it was rape.
Like or Dislike: 14 4
I can’t reply directly so I’ll reply here to your 3:35 comment not Bastet.
I’m not trying to puff myself up. You made the claim that a lot of people don’t like what I have to say, and I pointed out that may be true but more do than don’t. And it has little to nothing to do what you consider to be “sides” of the issue in my opinion. Your last statement in that previous post was sarcastic and insulting – you can’t explain it away as sincere.
And I said this case appears to be different than a violent random rape. You then countered by saying what I think it appears to be is opposite of what you think it appears to be – which in essense means you think they are the same thing or you didn’t really think through what you were replying to. Which is understandable as there are a lot of posts here.
Frankly, I could care less if you consider me an “enemy”. The entire point of these blogs is to discuss our opinions, and if that means people who don’t agree with you become your enemies that’s your right but it won’t affect the way I respond to your posts in the future.
Like or Dislike: 7 2
Pete–my post was sincere. I can’t help it if you aren’t reading this or any of my other posts right. And I can’t even follow your 3rd paragraph, so I have no way to respond to it. As to your last remark, I would prefer it if you didn’t respond to any of my future posts.
Like or Dislike: 1 8
If you can’t follow the third paragraph, then you obviously don’t understand your previous reply.
Interesting how as your enemy I am expected to not reply to you but you continue to reply to me, huh?
I really don’t think there’s anything left to say on this topic.
Like or Dislike: 5 4
Actually Pete, you are 100% correct. some people just have it stuck in their head that this is about females being the victim and there can be no other way. Its quite simple really, most of us using logic and common sense just find it hard to believe that “FATE” brought a drunk man and a drunk woman together on a bike path in the middle of the day. any one with common sense has to question whether or not they arrived at the same point at the same time by chance or if they got there together. if both hadnt been drunk i’d likely buy into the whole rape accusation, but it seems fishy enough to me that we owe the guy the chance to prove his case in court. Unfortunately, we have others on here that think they are getting dilike votes because men think its okay to rape a woman, some people cant see past the fact that the dislikes are coming because they are preaching that if a woman screams rape we should hang the guy and not ask questions. because women just dont lie… right some people?
Capt. Amerika I have never at any point said they arrived there on the path by fate–it’s ridiculous. I assumed they went there together–but who really knows with all of the details this story is lacking…
I have an idea–why don’t the bunch of you go take a walk—–on a bike trail.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 23
i would, but too many drunks fornicating on that bike path for me. Maybe i’ll go for a swim instead.
Like or Dislike: 13 8
Having been a bartender on and off for many years, along with also managing a bar, I’ve seen far more than I care to repeat here. My favorite was having to shut off the water because a “couple” used the sink in the women’s can to get it on, and broke the sink off the wall. It was a mess for me to clean up, but an even bigger mess for the “couple” as they weren’t a real couple, and their partners weren’t pleased at the public behavior and embarrassment of the actions of their spouses. What was their excuse? “I was too drunk and didn’t know what I was doing.”
Now, being female, it’s always been important for me to be in control of my person at all times, and not dance on the tables in mini-skirts, or pull up my shirt to show off my “goods”. I don’t set my drink down and leave it, nor do I accept a beverage from ANYONE I do not know. I like to watch my drink being mixed, and will walk to the bar instead of relying on it to be delivered to me. I’ve seen enough of my female peers get sloppy drunk and leave with someone they wouldn’t touch at 10pm, but at 2 am, the dude must look like a 10. (this 2 at 10 and 10 at 2 rule applies for guys too)
I’ve also had women come back to the bar and ask me who they left with the other night. THAT is scary. They wake up naked, laying somewhere in their home or car, wondering how they got there and what they did. It seems to me that they might have been”willing” victims of a situation, not so different from what this story describes.
It’s entirely possible to be a functioning drunk. They are upright, eyes open and engaged in an activity for which they would have no recollection of once they sober up, and it’s possible, as I’ve seen time and time again, for someone to appear totally functional and rational one minute and slumped over the next, or to fade in and out of a stupor before finally passing out. it’s all about when the blood alcohol level gets to their limit.
I certainly hope that this situation is fully investigated and a reasonble conclusion can be formed from the evidence that presents itself to the police and court.
I don’t care for preditory men who foist a bunch of drinks on a woman with the intent to get lucky, but at the same time, I don’t believe that the woman has to accept those drinks either. It’s not that hard to say NO. It is helpful to know one’s limit and if you really want to get smashed, bring along someone you trust to “save” you from doing something you may regret later.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 25 5
Rieka, i can only give you one “like” so i’ll tell you that you summed it up perfectly. You fully understand exactly what i have been trying to explain to “not bastet” Women need to be aware of whats going on and they need to not be naive and pretend that they can do what ever they want without worry. too many victims could have saved themselves from dealing with this trauma had they made better decisions. notice, i said “some” and i will tell you right now that “not bastet” is going to scream that i am saying the woman deserved it or its her fault but that is not it at all. a man who rapes a woman should always be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. i have only been trying to show that a woman should at least take measures to try to prevent it. for example: I lock my doors at night, if a robber breaks in and robs me at least i attempted to keep it from happening. i didnt put a sign on the front lawn advertising to all passerbys that the doors and windows are unlocked and i’ll be gone for two days. The kind of person that would commit rape knows exactly what kind of girl hes looking for and i guarantee you the one wearing the least amount of clothing is an obvious target and if you add in a lot of alcohol, nothing good can come from it. maybe now “not bastet” will understand that the guys arent blaming the girl, we just want justice to run its course and let him be punished based on the facts and if it comes out that it was consensual, she should also be punished as well as charged with falsifying police reports.
Like or Dislike: 6 5
A proven false claim of rape should carry the same sentence as the falsely accused stood to face if found guilty of a crime that person (I don’t assume “he”) were to have been wrongly convicted.
Like or Dislike: 7 4
I understand your sentiment, but I don’t know if I agree with that. It may make it much less likely that any false accuser would come clean, leaving the accused little chance of completely clearing their name.
Capt. Amerika–do you think I am some kind of an idiot? Or that I walk around in bars doing the crazy stuff that you described? Because I don’t, nor do I condone it, and frankly, I haven‘t seen many other women ‘dancing on tables’ either. And even if they did (which obviously NO ONE recommends) I don’t think they deserve to be raped because of it. I frankly do not go to bars at all–exactly for the reasons discussed in this story–I saw the pattern about 10 minutes into the experiment. It’s a meat market. The end.
Despite whatever take you and Rieka have on the situation –you are both failing to realize how aggressive and sometimes mean some of these guys are when drunk and it doesn’t matter if you are wearing sweat pants or a miniskirt. They’re looking at size, age, who you are with –you name it. A pretty woman in regular clothes will get more people hitting on her than someone less attractive made up like a streetwalker, that’s just the way it works. Rieka–you work in a bar, who knows better than you how this works? Sometimes you just look up and someone is setting something in front of you–what do you do then? Just hand it back to the waitress? That’s almost more dangerous, because then you have a guy staring at you all night long, only now he’s mad. I never said you had to drink every one of these drinks. But yes, sometimes they are hovering over you trying to get it down your throat faster. And sometimes they are decent and are not doing this.
And I’d like an answer as to how someone who is passed out—falsifies a police report? Talk about jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.
Like or Dislike: 1 9
OMG… I Give up. you wn. i’m just an evil person who believes the woman deserves it if she dresses like a street walker. i have no respect for women. blah blah blah… it would seem to me that through this entire thread that is all you seem to be getting from any of this. its no longer worth my time to try to get you to understand what every other person here already understands. You asked a question “Capt. Amerika–do you think I am some kind of an idiot?” i would answer but it would likely be taken as a personal attack so i’ll pass on answering the question. And no, i never ever, even insinuated that you were one of those women i was talking about, dont know why you would assume such a thing except to feed your own rage on this topic. you say you dont go to the bar because its a meat market? isnt that what i’ve been saying? you are all over the place on this which explains why you cant grasp what people are saying. good luck.
Thank you for acknowledging that I was right–and please don’t comment on any of my posts, you don’t have an ability to process what I am saying and it only ends up being frustrating for both of us.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 0 10
Just say NO THANKS. Be consistant and nice about it. Most guys respond better to honey than vinegar, so wrap up your let down in a nice verbal package and sweeten it with a tempered tongue.
Works for me, every time.
Like or Dislike: 6 1
Jack; Please clearify?
I’d like to hear the female party’s side of the story before jumping to any conclusions. Hopefully she remembers what happened (passing out = pretty darn intoxicated = not always remembering things the best).
In the lease, they should both be charged with some sort of indecent exposure/lewd conduct (sorry – I am not familiar with ND’s statutes!)
Like or Dislike: 3 1
ND Statute worth a read for a better understanding of the charge.
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Bingo—-you just summarized my entire point Rieka–in spite of the many naysayers it would appear that I am not so incorrect after all, would it …..???
Like or Dislike: 0 8
If he was intoxicated too, how can you be sure he KNEW that she didn’t know?
“c. That person knows that the victim is unaware that a sexual act is being committed
upon him or her;”
Swiss cheese to a good defense attorney who can bring in a few expert witnesses that can state the unpredictable nature of intoxication and the variety of variables. A jury of peers can contain people who have been drunk once and didn’t remember what or where they were thus enabling them to have empathy for being stupidly drunk…and that it’s plausible that neither one was able to use good judgement in broad daylight (as proven by public fornication charge), AND, who ever called the report in to the police is a witness as to the physical ability prior to the police involvement. If the woman was not witnessed actually participating in the action, the guy has little to stand on, however, they still must be able to prove that HE KNEW that she didn’t KNOW she was having sex. many have used their altered state of intoxication as an excuse to commit all sorts of actions. Obviously, she wouldn’t know if she was passed out, but it remains to be seen at what point, they actually determine that she passed out. All the article said is that the guy was trying to pull her clothes on. It’s possible also that they were having a bit of a romp, all was well, and she passed out on him, he stopped and tried to spare her even more embarrassment by trying to cover her back up. The time frame and details are missing.
it appears that you think you KNOW what his intentions were and you are certain that he KNEW that she didn’t KNOW what was going on. It’s never wise to convict on knee-jerk reactions or bias. Years ago, the woman would have been labeled a slut and dismissed, or publicly ostracized. At least the laws have progressed to the point that this will be a matter to be heard in court…and not ruled on by public preception. At least society has progressed to the point it views drunken public fornication as a stupid act and recognizes that it takes two to tango even if one doesn’t make it to the end of the dance.
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